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 Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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 Dark Night Of The Soul... 
#8276719 - 04/13/08 06:14 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I hear alot about this and ive had the odd night here & there where i feel like im being ripped apart internally and i obssess over suffering but is this related at all to the dark night?
IT come sin flashes about once a week for the last few months where suffering is all i can think about and i feel like shit, then i just open up and get HUGE amounts of blissfull joy afterwards, its like somethings forcing me to open up.
Is this related to the dark night?
I always presumed it would be one night of hell or something?
Its quite annoying as if i have to wait for this one night to descend upon me, or ifits a slow unreavelling process (which makes more sense)
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 jonathanseagull
Cool!
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Chronic7]
#8276855 - 04/13/08 08:10 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Nah, it's not. The "Night" is a period of time, not a literal night. It's a time of feeling abandoned by God. I've read the book, so I will try to fill you in the best I can remember.
San Juan De La Cruz (Saint John of the Cross) wrote a large poem called "The Ascent of Mount Carmel" I believe. One part of it was entitled "The Dark Night of the Soul" (all of this is much like Dante's The Comedy, with the Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradisio).
He wrote his own commentary on the Dark Night of the Soul and put it all in one book with the same title.
It's very much like the concept of ego-death we have around here, but not induced by drugs and much longer lasting and slower to develop. I can personally say that I've experienced a Dark Night, which is why I read the book, and as I read it, I completely identified with the "symptoms". It helped to know what was going on. It's a spiritual emergency type of deal almost.
To sum it up very succinctly, its about becoming very introverted, to the point where you are denied a connection to your physical senses, mental processes, and eventually god (read: ego death). Then, once seeing rock-bottom, you get a perspective on the top, and know that it's time for the Ascent of Mount Carmel. It's all part of the growth process. It seems like a gigantic step backwards, but it is not.
It's been a while since I've read it, but that's what I got out of it, and hope I interpreted it with neutral eyes, and not what I wanted/needed to see. I'm sure, in hindsight with a second reading I'd get a lot more out of it.
 Hope I helped.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Text removed by request of the copyright holder.
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Edited by Ythan (04/14/08 06:27 PM)
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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backfromthedead.
that's the most eloquent thing you've ever written. most posts that long by people I just skim, but I actually read that.
cheers
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: appleorange]
#8279892 - 04/13/08 10:04 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I wish I could have articulated the process in my own words that well. The block of text is from the listed website. I just wrote the last sentence. Thanks though. 
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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the dark night of the soul is a process towards enlightenment and can take decades. it involves loss of faith in your religion, fellow man and the world. it makes you go through the whole spiritual "what's the point of it all/is there a god/what's my part in this world" hooplaa. when the night is over illuminating light shines over you, as the dawn symbolizes your wisdom that eventually overcame the night.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Chronic7]
#8285691 - 04/15/08 06:16 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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I just had a literal dark night of the soul. Damn, that was intense! I was having a fairly normal dream, interacting with a lot of the people I normally interact with in real life...family, friends, etc. Then, I forget the context, but this kid who I mentor calls me up and starts telling me about how life is a dream, I'm dreaming up everyone outside myself, I am nothingness, I am the abyss, and all in this really terrifying voice. I start looking around and everything is unreal, the people I see I've already seen before, I know what's going to happen next. This really creepy Indian guy walks by me and I just 'flip', everything starts to melt into this horrific soup of blackness. Next thing you know I am just empty black space, and a heart beating. I can feel my heart beating. Then I woke up, in bed, completely freaked out. Repeated 'Hare Krishna, Hare Rama' for the rest of the night to stay calm.
But yeah...the Dark Night in it's figurative sense is a very real phenomenon, and like jonathanseagull said, basically equivalent to 'spiritual emergency'. Chronic, have you ever read Stanislav Grof?
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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8285756 - 04/15/08 07:12 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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I havent read him but am looking up now...what would you reccomend hes got alot of books...
I feel i have had this dark night of the soul for a good few weeks where i was up & down obsessing about suffering & feeling totally abandoned, it was SO up & down it was ridiculous, im talking all out bliss then deep depression, feeling like i wanted to cry but the tears wouldn't come, something then forced me to open my heart and the greatest relief came over me. What has come out ofit is simple acceptance of everything, oneness does not judge good or bad it just is.
Im sure i will still experience ups & downs but i feel i've reached a kind of not caring what shows up right now, whatever is, let it be, not in a i don't care way, in a resistance is futile kind of way, a complete surrender of my mind. Ive just stopped trying to understand and a serence peace is always present if i pay attention.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Chronic7]
#8287744 - 04/15/08 04:58 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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I think we all have many dark nights throughout the course of our lives. Any time we cannot see the positive aspects of human existence - friendship, camaraderie, love, art - and any time we are stuck in a fearful, shut-off place in our minds, the night is there. There may be one particular definition in the vocabulary of a spiritual seeker, but it's usually not a clear cut period in one's life that has a beginning, arch, and end.
The only book I can personally recommend of Grof's is The Holotropic Mind, and I do so highly!
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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8287760 - 04/15/08 05:02 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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you only have one.
some don't even have that.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Bridgeburner]
#8288105 - 04/15/08 06:20 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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How do you know there is only one?
Actually, if you go by St. John's text, there are two: the dark night of the soul, and the dark night of the spirit.
Either way, I do not think everyone has just one period in one's life that could fit the description of a dark night.
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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8288123 - 04/15/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Right, every night is dark, but I think this generally refers to a certain period in one's spiritual development where the old ways are dead and the new haven't yet been born.
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8288134 - 04/15/08 06:27 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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it is one period, it's the ONLY period that matters, because after that there will be no other: you have either passed it or stuck in it for the rest of your mortal life.
it is the test of tests,a breakthrough opportunity for self.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Middleman]
#8288150 - 04/15/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Yeah, but I would still argue that that process is not cut and dry. New ways are born and then give way to old patterns, old ways fade and re-emerge. I could say that the past 2 years of my life have been a dark night of the soul, but that would be indulgent as I have probably suffered no more than the average human being in that time.
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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8288162 - 04/15/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Weird, I've actually been thinking about this lately, like I thought I was going through it before but it just keeps getting worse. 
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Lion]
#8288184 - 04/15/08 06:41 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Yeah, but I would still argue that that process is not cut and dry. New ways are born and then give way to old patterns, old ways fade and re-emerge. I could say that the past 2 years of my life have been a dark night of the soul, but that would be indulgent as I have probably suffered no more than the average human being in that time.
indeed, but these rollercoaster patterns are all inside the DNoTS.
after it has been passed life /it's trials will not appear as new and old patterns, but maybe more as a constant change, shapeless and ever-moving. nothing will be seen as it was seen during or before the DNoTS and you will be elightened, the suffering during DNoTS will be releaved and you will see the root causes of pain & sorrow in your existance.
that's my viewpoint. it can be compared to the "hump" in practicing magick or studying something in fnord the university and then getting tired of it because it appears boring or something like that.
i would not use the phrase DNoTS so lightly but that's me, uber serious about everything 
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Bridgeburner]
#8288205 - 04/15/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Are you enlightened?
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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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jonathanseagull
Cool!
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Dark Night Of The Soul... [Re: Bridgeburner]
#8289035 - 04/15/08 09:30 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
b0red5tiff said:
you only have one.
some don't even have that.
Dark Night of the Soul, Spiritual Emergency, Acute Schizophrenic Break, Psychotic Break with Spiritual Themes, Shamanic Initiation... all different names for the same event.
You have an existential crisis. Your subconcious projects archetypical themes all over everything. Nobody understands your gibberish that makes complete sense. You talk in paradoxes to explain the ineffable. Your ego shatters. Your fundamental ideas of everything break. Your foundational emotions and ideas that are negative are lost and you slowly recreate a healthier lifestyle afterwards. You experience the transcendence of time and space.... the list goes on.
For more information, try Stanislov Grof - The Adventure of Self-Discovery, Joseph Campbell - The Hero of a Thousand Faces, and John Weir Perry - The Far Side of Madness. These are some of the books on the subject, from a mystically understanding side of things that see the process as nature's way of destroying or rearranging the negative aspects of the psyche. Instead of suppressing it with drugs, they seek to help individuals work through it, and become renewed.
No, it's not enlightenment. It's taking someone with an extremely unhealthy psyche and fixing it so they may continue to climb towards their highest potential. I know there are a few people on the board who have gone through it, and all will say that it was the worst and best experience ever. I hate it, and yet wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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How'd we get the idea that it is just one night??
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Quote:
Dark Night of the Soul, Spiritual Emergency, Acute Schizophrenic Break, Psychotic Break with Spiritual Themes, Shamanic Initiation... all different names for the same event.
true. is the Undergound Journey in the same category though?
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