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Dscid
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 283
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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I think it's okay for an experienced user to say it. And by experienced, I mean mature, deep understanding...someone that really knows, and has a lot of experience. But I think a lot of people that don't really know sling the phrase around. That's what annoys me.
The people that go 'ooh, and ahhh' over dumb hallucinations...thinking that's what it's about, then saying 'mind expansion.'
Also, 'mind expanding...when some people say it as a 'cool' thing...boosting their egos, when part of the drugs purpose is trying to LOSE it. That's kinda funny to me. *Shrugs*
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat
Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: Dscid]
#8388193 - 05/11/08 06:11 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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omg... somebody who actually understood what I was talking about!
My who point was severely misinterpreted... and perhaps poorly communicated...
-------------------- "This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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handicappedrat
Stranger
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 264
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* *DELETED* [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
#8391037 - 05/11/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by handicappedratReason for deletion: jnkl
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weiliiiiiii
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 9,711
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: handicappedrat]
#8391080 - 05/11/08 11:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i guess some people use these gifts from god just too be sillywhat a waste, not trying to be a dick thats just my opinion.
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mseerob
Stranger
Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Nunbuh_Chrubble said: Honestly, I get a little annoyed by the phrase "mind expanding". Like psychedelics just automatically make you more wise. Quite frankly most of the people I see that trip aren't trying to expand shit, they just want to goof off and get high. (I'm guilty of this too)
I think "Mind altering" or "Broadening of Experience" are better phrases than "Mind Expanding"
Drugs don't make you enlightened. Personal inner work makes you enlightened with or without drugs. Some drugs allow you to get more inside yourself that you normally would be able to, but what you do once you are there is totally up to you.
You wouldn't say that a hammer has "house building" qualities...
I agree with you. I don't see how you can put the experience into your daily life from the use of psychedelics. I believe being high from the use of psychedelics is only meaningful during the duration of when your high. After when the high wears off I dont remember the things I thought about when I was high.
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weiliiiiiii
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 9,711
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: mseerob]
#8391842 - 05/12/08 08:04 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i always remember the things ive thought about while tripping and then i apply them too my life afterward too make me a better person.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 14 days
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: Bend the Bong]
#8391861 - 05/12/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bend the Bong said: I like that everyone has a different idea on what it all is...that's the point, we are all communicating like apes trying to find symbols in which to explain these things...
nobody knows first hand, not a single one of us...and nobody ever has...but we can fiddle and squirm all we want and try to make these ideas tangible but it's not happening
"subjectivity"
Well.... just because no way of communication for sorts of experiences typical of the use of these compounds does not rule out some sort of future communication principle.
'Mind expansion' truly is a relative thing and, for some, hallucinogens can convey a perceptive stance that is very conducive to 'mind-expansion', i.e ego loss, breakthroughs, ect.
This catalyst can also come from anything that allows one to step back from a normal perspective and see things somewhat beyond the scope of their own subjective stance. Situations demanding sympathy, empathy, love, hate, and others are also conducive to mind expansion.
So is reading, creating, discussing, meditating... hell, sometimes an episode of 'Saved by the Bell' at 2 in the morning after a good drunk can be mind expanding.
I think there would need to be a more concrete, communicable definition for the term 'mind-expansion' before it's repercussions and qualities could be properly and objectively communicated on any level. As stands right now the term itself is on the same level as the experience.
Almost impossible to communicate to one who has not shared it, but simple enough to communicate to someone in the know with no more than a nod and smile in some cases.
~Monk
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat
Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: handicappedrat]
#8399065 - 05/13/08 10:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
handicappedrat said: I think "expand your mind" is referring to after the trip. I would not call your new understanding of everything "mind altering". The drugs are "mind altering", but my mind is "expanded" when I come out.
hmm.. interesting way of putting it. I can agree with that perspective... maybe.
-------------------- "This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: citricacidx]
#8399388 - 05/14/08 12:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Psychedelics are most definately mind expanding. That is their effect, increase the quantity of stimuli and weaken or dissolve mental boundaries. It allows you to assimilate many perspectives you would not normally have, like how plants or insects feel or what every noise in the city sounds like at once.
I think what you mean is whether or not psychedelics can expand a person's perspective making them wiser. I believe they can and do, but only for people who are receptive and already have the framework for it. Some people have unexpected transformations, but really they have to at least a little open to what the experience shows them.
Sometimes I want to say that psychedelics have helped me alot and made me wiser, but I'd have to say the frame of mind that led me to psychedelics among other things was the real important factor.
I find that people that percieve psychedelics as mind altering rather than mind expanding are more familiar with mushrooms and other tryptamines than with LSD or the phenethylamines, though LSD is the real expansive experience.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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wildchild68
lion in a coma
Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 5,115
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: Divided_Sky]
#8399640 - 05/14/08 03:07 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think tryptamines are more expanding anyday.
Of which LSD is one, or part of one. I really don't quite undestand it's chemical structure.
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BigJonMud
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Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 184
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: wildchild68]
#8399657 - 05/14/08 03:21 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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The very nature of the mushroom is expansion. Look at its cap. The way the mycelium spread and grow.
How it distributes spores. The seeming fact that the mushroom can connect you with the network of all its very own networks.
If you disrespect the shroom, it disrespects you. In my opinion, mind expanding is a totally appropriate term.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: BigJonMud]
#8400454 - 05/14/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess what I am saying is that in my own personal experience the mushrooms take me deeper and to strange new places. MDMA also gives you depth, but it is a more familiar and outward sense of depth. The mushrooms take you inward in a way that is very specific and focused. Generally one thing grabs your attention at a time and you go on this rollercoaster of crazy thoughts between perceptions.
LSD expands the breadth, the spacialness and the quantity of things you can be simultaneously aware of at the same time. That is why I would say expansive is a more appropriate term, because it just widens your awareness to included so many more bits of information and perspectives. It is a bigger picture view. Mushrooms IMO are much more zoomed in and focused moment to moment.
LSD seems to lack the emotional/spiritual dimension that mushrooms and MDMA have but more than compensates in its own cosmic way.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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wildchild68
lion in a coma
Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 5,115
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: Divided_Sky]
#8401232 - 05/14/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, I guess I can see that. I do agree LSD is very expansive feeling in general. I do think of things on a very grand scale.
Personally though, I wouldn't say it's any more mind expanding.
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astronaut
ascetic aesthetic
Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 1,013
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: citricacidx]
#8402492 - 05/14/08 08:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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OP, I just think you don't know how to use psychedelics right.
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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face: Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: astronaut]
#8402832 - 05/14/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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taking a gun to your head and splatting it on the wall is mind expanding too lol. but its a bit shot out and messy. It seems that some minds are that way
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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I just finished listening to a radio broadcast of a speech given by Dr. Leary in the early 60's called 'How to Use Your Head'(link). I think it applies heavily to this subject, so I just want to throw it out there. It's a very good speech, regardless of your views on psychedelics.
Dr. Leary begins by explaining the process of 'imprinting', which is the phenomenon involving the earliest stages of a complex organism's (he mentioned mammals and birds specifically) life outside of the egg/birth canal. In the first few hours 'outside', the point he refers to as the 'critical stage', the newly birthed organism focuses on the first moving, sound producing object in its general vicinity, like a baby duck 'imprinting' the image of its mother in the first moments of life 'outside'.
Dr. Leary goes into some detail about imprinting and its specifics, before moving onto the example of the orange basketball. Researchers hatched a baby duckling in a lab setting, but replaced the mother duck with a large, orange basketball. They conducted a series of tests which proved that 1) the ducklings, after being exposed to the basketball during the 'critical stage', would not choose their biological mother over the basketball when given a choice and 2) they believed that the effects of imprinting were permanent, and could not be changed. Dr. Leary goes into more detail here about imprinting and its effects on humans - how we are stuck with this original imprint for our entire lives, how this imprint effects our interpretations on a daily basis, how we shift and change our world to fit this image and how it never changes (without a catalyst; here the crowd begins to chuckle nervously as the discussions content clearly shifts towards psychedelics and their impact on our original imprint).
The last segment of the speech delves into Dr. Leary's theory that the use of psychedelics actually allows one the freedom to pause this original imprint, move it aside, and in doing so allow the mind free reign over the brain and its billions upon billions of connections and path-ways. He talks about clinical studies, possible changes in pharmacology, and the hypothetical future implications of this drug and its effect on the mind and our 'thirteen billion dollar camera', the brain.
Anyways, the point being that Dr. Leary quite literally believed, his belief very much based in science and logic, that psychedelics have the ability to widen ones scope (consciousness) beyond the early imprinting and conditioning, to expand the power of our mind in a very real way. Great speech, I highly recommend it!
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mindspin
Heirophant
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: citricacidx]
#8403959 - 05/15/08 03:12 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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In my own experience with mushrooms, I have found that it provides me a window through which I can look at the world in every sense -- emotionally, visually, mentally...
If you are looking to have a good time on shrooms, you will have a good time. However if you embrace it for all it is and mentally prepare yourself, I think it can also lead to an enlightening and possibly life-changing experience.
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BigJonMud
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Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 184
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: "Expand your mind" *rolls eyes* [Re: mindspin]
#8404238 - 05/15/08 06:53 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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@Divided sky-> Some very nice distinctions!
@Cameron-. The 8 circuits? Brillaint stuff!
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