Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8268907 - 04/11/08 11:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Just presh zee button. If zee button gives you no result, move onto the patch bay.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8269411 - 04/11/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Freedom from every influence or force is impossible and I don't think anybody is really looking for that.

Maybe it's because you're young. There is a time when some (me) want only that. Being in material existence is too restrictive now. I'm not going to off myself today but when the time comes I think it will be a relief.

"any day now, any way now, I shall be released"




I am not only talking about material influences.  Every person is part of a greater whole from which they are inseparable.  You can't be 'free' of that reality IMHO, though you may be free from any anguish associated with existence.  But that, again, is a specific thing.

In other words, what is, is, and there is no escape from that.  Death might appear to be such an escape, but that's just a guess.  Maybe it won't give you the relief you seek.

I just meant the english word 'freedom' has no meaning if it is not referring to a specific property whose influence you wish to escape. 

Besides, I'm not young, I'm almost 30 :smirk:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8269532 - 04/11/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm almost 30

That's really young.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8269549 - 04/11/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That was a joke... I didn't think I would have to say so

:monkeydance:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8271361 - 04/11/08 08:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

how old am I?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleappleorange
Rainbow Technician
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Epigallo]
    #8271391 - 04/11/08 08:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
how old am I?




I'm 27

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: appleorange]
    #8271456 - 04/11/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, that's not really how you play the guessing game.

But, I'm 24.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefigmentfragment
leaving shroomery

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Epigallo]
    #8276635 - 04/13/08 04:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Fuck the government?

I could agree with this statement...yet the thing is, the really annoying self defeating fact is...that while we may go around, declaring this and that about the government, I have yet to see many people with actual alternative solutions...
I can't talk. Politics is hardly one of my strong points...

Let us say, hypothetically that the government is "fucked". Then what? What do you envisage for the future?


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8276843 - 04/13/08 08:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

My original post was meant to emulate a gung-ho rebellious attitude towards government, such as what a "bad ass" rock band might say before a song.

What if gritty people always yelled "fuck yeah for government!"? It wouldn't make sense, because the government always keeps a sterile image and its people don't publicly declare "fuck yeah!". Because its essentially a powerful, yet inhuman force. Not to say that we can do away with it or "kill" the government, but that we probaby shouldn't align ourselves with governmental forces. I think it will manifest on its own.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefigmentfragment
leaving shroomery

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Epigallo]
    #8276906 - 04/13/08 08:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes. I can appreciate your sentiment. And please also note that I didn't actually disagree with what you had stated.

But I also noticed that you had no answer to my question, which in truth was not just aimed at you...

Does anyone have any ideas?

"anarchism as a whole advanced what Isaiah Berlin has called 'negative freedom,' that is to say, a formal 'freedom from,' rather than a substantive 'freedom to.' "


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBoots
Disenchanted
Male

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8281273 - 04/14/08 09:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Read Hobbes or Locke. I agree for the most part on what they had to say about Government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8281604 - 04/14/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Let us say, hypothetically that the government is "fucked". Then what? What do you envisage for the future?




Then we work to un-fuck it. That's obviously a very complex and involved task, but it's the only viable solution.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: dblaney]
    #8281665 - 04/14/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think there is a much more viable solution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8281987 - 04/14/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

figmentfragment said: Let us say, hypothetically that the government is "fucked". Then what? What do you envisage for the future?




If you could be either God's worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose? We're the middle children of history, we have no special purpose or place, and unless we get God's attention, we have no hope of damnation or redemption. Which is worse, hell or nothing? Burn the museums, wipe your ass with the Mona Lisa. This way, at least God will know your name.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8282046 - 04/14/08 12:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think there is a much more viable solution.




I'm all ears.


...or eyes as the case may be.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: dblaney]
    #8282052 - 04/14/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Icelander said:
'I think there is a much more viable solution.'

Ready yourself for something radical.:tongue:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: dblaney]
    #8282057 - 04/14/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The govt/culture has been what it is and will continue until the end of mankind IMO. There is plenty of evidence of this if you do some research and check your history.

Work to change things in yourself and you will have a worthwhile project as long as you don't expect miracles.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8282073 - 04/14/08 12:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'...as long as you don't expect miracles.'

What a downer. Expect wonders and you will realize them. Lock the door and you'll never get in.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8282079 - 04/14/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I said miracles not wonders (can you not read?) and you don't know wtf you are talking about, it's just more babble. Your response had nothing to do with my comment.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (04/14/08 12:34 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Government as a necessary evil. [Re: Icelander]
    #8282100 - 04/14/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The govt/culture has been what it is and will continue until the end of mankind IMO. There is plenty of evidence of this if you do some research and check your history.

Work to change things in yourself and you will have a worthwhile project as long as you don't expect miracles.




Working to change things in yourself is crucial. But you are inseparable from society and mankind as a whole. If you truly work to transform yourself, then you will inevitably work to transform the world.

These lines between inner and outer are problematic.

To put this another way: our world is burning, moreso now that in nearly any other time in history. We are not islands. We are all responsible for our world, so to isolate yourself and then to say that working to transform only this isolated self is worthwhile is to miss the mark. The world has changed many, many, many times in history, and will continue to do so.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Natural Born Killers : Beyond Good and Evil Adamist 7,584 2 07/04/05 04:30 PM
by JB201
* Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool"....
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Lightningfractal 5,128 74 03/17/04 06:04 PM
by Lightningfractal
* do 'evil' people know they're evil
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Muppet 8,004 138 11/03/04 11:53 PM
by Strumpling
* Attn: Shroomism. The Greys = Evil.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Larrythescaryrex 7,233 74 07/10/02 04:02 PM
by Swami
* Is there good? Is there evil?
( 1 2 3 all )
World Spirit 3,293 46 11/26/01 01:16 AM
by missulena
* These THINGS are Evil
( 1 2 all )
Prosgeopax 3,573 38 05/25/05 06:15 PM
by kaiowas
* good and evil 2Experimental 752 17 04/23/04 01:02 PM
by 2Experimental
* Something 'Behind' the World Governments?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Source 3,363 75 07/09/04 11:18 PM
by Droz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,977 topic views. 1 members, 7 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.