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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8225386 - 04/01/08 05:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds like a new hit single. Now pass the firewater.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: backfromthedead]
#8225441 - 04/01/08 05:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I joke a lot and I know you probably won't believe this being April 1 and all, but I (a white hippie)recorded that song I wrote back in 1979. Yes, it was the first ever RAP song recorded (because I can't sing a note) done long before anything hit the airwaves. It was supposed to be a single, but never got released.
I would upload, but the cassette is just about unplayable.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8225509 - 04/01/08 06:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That'd be a fun listen.
I wanna do the rest of the lyrics, that was fun.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8225583 - 04/01/08 06:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
It was supposed to be a single, but never got released.
The world must not have been ready for it. Then or now.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#8225649 - 04/01/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,009
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: Cracka_X]
#8229962 - 04/02/08 06:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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hey neurobiology is not based upon quantum physics. regular physics chemistry and biology are involved, not quantum physics
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#8230273 - 04/02/08 07:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Low blow.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: redgreenvines]
#8230363 - 04/02/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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But chemical bonding relies on the principles of quantum physics. :smartass:
edit - BTW, I have taken those classes, and I loved them
Edited by Qubit (04/02/08 07:58 PM)
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: DieCommie]
#8232103 - 04/03/08 02:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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thank you, DieCommie
Quote:
hey neurobiology is not based upon quantum physics. regular physics chemistry and biology are involved, not quantum physics
Ok ok ok, hey a lot of us don't know this or think about it but here we go...
chemistry is basically about the interactions of elements dubbed a name by they electron, proton, and neutron composition, right?
Electrons, protons, neutrons = atom
The basic building block of everything is... = atom
very general, beginning physics is more along the lines of newtonian or classical(I think they're the same.. maybe not? correct me if wrong) physics where objects interact on large scale. ok atoms... tightly compacted... crystal lattices... whatever... It's a much more tangible physics
More advanced physics deals with electronics OR WAIT WHAT?.... electrons, protons, and neutrons and their effects and properties known as of now. but not very complete and it's more a matter of "this does this just because" (probably not, but I'm in physics without calculus so all I'm given is equations.. i know, i'm depriving myself and probably should've taken with calc. )
NOW QUANTUM PHYSICS THE STUDY OF SUBATOMIC PARTICLES. WHICH ARE Protons Neutrons Electrons
Then protons and neutrons are apparently composed of quarks and I just lose it! there's a lot more but I don't know much more in depth than that... and maybe a tidbit about neutrinos.
So by this simple deduction, QUANTUM MECHANICS IS EVERYTHING
oh, I'm sorry, biology. So you have protein synthesis and get a protein strand... This strand undergoes folding based on balancing its charges. (oh baby, everything is related can't you feel it!)
okok, Ion channels? ooo what're these ions... Ca+ or Ca++ and K+ and whatever else. Hormone receptors. G-protein receptors!! CYCLIC AMP!!!! Signal Transduction Cascade!!!!
ok, whew. So hopefully you come to find that these words ppl have for certain things, which seem to be a supercompilation of subatomic partciles are merely words. And that Protien Kinase 1 doesn't just activate Protein Kinase 2 JUST BECAUSE that's what it says in the book.... BUT... because their composition and, if you wanna go there, the flow of energy.
please tell me you feel me, because if not then you're gonna have to wait until I'm in grad school.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: DieCommie]
#8232249 - 04/03/08 04:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: But chemical bonding relies on the principles of quantum physics. :smartass:
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how so?
Inorganic seems to be described as those magnetic balls you can buy, and organic is like a sticky balloon kinda..
Both are pretty explainable macroscopically, no?
I don't know a bunch about electron wave functions and such, but isn't quantum phys more smaller scale? You don't have much uncertainty w/ chemical bonding.. its all kinda kinetics and magnatism
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deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: Cracka_X]
#8232325 - 04/03/08 05:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cracka_X said: very general, beginning physics is more along the lines of newtonian or classical(I think they're the same.. maybe not? correct me if wrong)
not exactly: newtonian physics is classical physics but the converse is not quite right. There was a couple of smart people after Newton like Lagrange, Laplace, Hamilton, Jacobi and others who supplemented newtonian mechanics with concepts of lagrangian, hamiltonian and the like, making life much more easy by dealing with everything in terms of energy. Yet it is equivalent, you can mostly do everything with Newton's three laws, yet sometimes it is much easier to use, say, Lagrangian mechanics to arrive at identical results.
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More advanced physics deals with electronics OR WAIT WHAT?.... electrons, protons, and neutrons and their effects and properties known as of now. but not very complete and it's more a matter of "this does this just because" (probably not, but I'm in physics without calculus so all I'm given is equations.. i know, i'm depriving myself and probably should've taken with calc. )
Applying quantum mechanics to subatomic particles, atoms, molecules or solids tell you pretty much why things behave the way they do. It is not hand waving, although you may be able to get some rough quantitative results with (good) hand waving arguments
Quote:
NOW QUANTUM PHYSICS THE STUDY OF SUBATOMIC PARTICLES. WHICH ARE Protons Neutrons Electrons
Then protons and neutrons are apparently composed of quarks and I just lose it! there's a lot more but I don't know much more in depth than that... and maybe a tidbit about neutrinos.
Yes, quantum mechanics apply to subatomic particles and the current model is called the Standard Model of particles. But it also apply as I said to atoms, molecules, light, and very much so to solids. Properties of metals, insulators and semiconductors for example are explained using quantum mechanics applied to atomic and electronic lattices. This belong to the field of solid state physics and condensed matter physics. But maybe you guessed, there are vast fields concerned with quantum optics, atomic and molecular physics, quantum chemistry, and they all use some form of conventional quantum mechanics. It is applicable from the very microscopic to the mesoscopic. And even to the macroscopic ! For example, white dwarf stars are understood to be stable only because of Pauli's exclusion principle which gives rise to an outward electronic degeneracy pressure. These are concepts used all over in solid state physics.
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So by this simple deduction, QUANTUM MECHANICS IS EVERYTHING
yes and no. Complex emergent laws often force us to abandon a microscopic description for a better suited set of rules adapted for a given scale. While we somehow know that at the core there's probably a viable microscopic description, most of the time we are unable to make the direct link between quantum mechanic and the phenomena we observe a few length scales above, or we do so by using rough approximations based on experimental observation and intuition about how we see things behaving rather than by raw mathematical grinding through the microscopic physical model.
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oh, I'm sorry, biology. So you have protein synthesis and get a protein strand... This strand undergoes folding based on balancing its charges. (oh baby, everything is related can't you feel it!)
okok, Ion channels? ooo what're these ions... Ca+ or Ca++ and K+ and whatever else. Hormone receptors. G-protein receptors!! CYCLIC AMP!!!! Signal Transduction Cascade!!!!
ok, whew. So hopefully you come to find that these words ppl have for certain things, which seem to be a supercompilation of subatomic partciles are merely words. And that Protien Kinase 1 doesn't just activate Protein Kinase 2 JUST BECAUSE that's what it says in the book.... BUT... because their composition and, if you wanna go there, the flow of energy.
please tell me you feel me, because if not then you're gonna have to wait until I'm in grad school.
It is true that at the beginning of my physics education I too had the feeling that everything could be explained with a microscopic physical description, giving some bachelor a false sense of superiority toward other disciplines, but as you progress you notice that all these promises of superior descriptive power are illusions, and surely you eventually come back down on earth. The explanatory gap across energy and length scales is particularly big in high energy physics, biology, chemistry of big molecules, etc. While I have hope that we'll eventually get there, I strongly advice against making presumptuous claims.
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deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: johnm214]
#8232343 - 04/03/08 05:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: But chemical bonding relies on the principles of quantum physics. :smartass:
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how so?
Inorganic seems to be described as those magnetic balls you can buy, and organic is like a sticky balloon kinda..
Both are pretty explainable macroscopically, no?
I don't know a bunch about electron wave functions and such, but isn't quantum phys more smaller scale? You don't have much uncertainty w/ chemical bonding.. its all kinda kinetics and magnatism
You need quantum mechanics to explain why chemical bounding exists in the first place and why they behave the way they do. But once you have these results and under certain assumptions you can abandon the microscopic quantum description for a much more convenient set of rules at the scale of molecules, a set which on average works very nicely.
Indeed, because of temperature and of the very large quantity of molecules involved, chemical reactions take place in a very noisy environment, and so applying statistical physics to this system of molecules you end up with chemistry. No need to keep trace of entanglement and superposition anymore.
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perosiste
Overcomplicates shit for fun
Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 1,030
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Everybody needs to take these classes! [Re: backfromthedead]
#8232359 - 04/03/08 06:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I vote Logic
its hard to explain a damn thing without a logical argument
-------------------- Risk Management will be the downfall of western civilization
Edited by perosiste (04/03/08 06:11 AM)
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