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Anonymous

Greek tradgey
    #821832 - 08/16/02 07:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Heres the thing, most people read greek Tradgeys when they are in HS, usually under duress. I was introduced to the world of Greek Myth when I was a youngin' , and was hooked ever since.

In College, I studied Myth, and a large part of my studies centered around Greek Tradgey.
I just finished the Oresteia and I am skimming through Sophocles' Oedipus' Cycle, having read it before.
The reading can be a bit difficult to the average reader, but with a little practice, the style seems easier than Clockwork Orange's slang.

I wondered if anyone reads greek plays for fun, or otherwise. I'm familiar with m ost of the Panthenon of the Gods, and have a smattering of knowledge of the major Myth stories. Yeah, Im a nerd.
-OoD

(phew, that wasn't so bad...i may get the hang of this




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OfflineDiscordja
Pope

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #822099 - 08/16/02 09:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

They made me read bits of Oedipus in my generic first year university Arts course. Didn't seem any trickier than Shakespeare, and a hell of a lot better than Chaucer. Regardless, I never got into it, but the Pantheon and their sundry Myths always intersted me.

Speaking of myth, I'd be a poor brainwashed cultist if I didn't pounce on an opening like this....

THE MYTH OF THE APPLE OF DISCORD

It seems that Zeus was preparing a wedding banquet for Peleus and Thetis and did not want to invite Eris because of Her reputation as a trouble maker. *

This made Eris angry, and so She fashioned an apple of pure gold** and inscribed upon it KALLISTI ("To The Prettiest One") and on the day of the fete She rolled it into the banquet hall and then left to be alone and joyously partake of a hot dog.

Now, three of the invited goddesses,*** Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite, each immediately claimed it to belong to herself because of the inscription. And they started fighting, and they started throwing punch all over the place and everything.

Finally, Zeus calmed things down and declared that an arbitrator must be selected, which was a reasonable suggestion, and all agreed. He sent them to a shepherd of Troy, whose name was Paris because his mother had had a lot of gaul and married a Frenchman; but each of the sneaky goddesses tried to outwit the others by going early and offering a bribe to Paris.

Athena offered him Heroic War Victories, Hera offered him Great Wealth, and Aphrodite offered him The Most Beautiful Woman on Earth. Being a healthy young Trojan lad, Paris promptly accepted Aphrodites bribe and she got the apple and he got screwed.

As she had promised, she maneuvered earthly happenings so that Paris could have Helen (THE Helen) then living with her husband Menelaus, King of Sparta. Anyway, everyone knows that the Trojan War followed when Sparta demanded their Queen back and that the Trojan War is said to be The First War among men.

And so we suffer because of The Original Snub. And so a Discordian is to partake of No Hot Dog Buns.

Do you believe that?

_______________

* This is called THE DOCTRINE OF THE ORIGINAL SNUB.

** There is historic disagreement concerning whether this apple was of metalic gold or acapulco.

*** Actually there were five goddesses, but the Greeks did not know of the Law of Fives.


--------------------
Remember, it's only true if it makes you laugh...


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Anonymous

Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Discordja]
    #822176 - 08/16/02 09:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

When I am bad, I punish myslf by reading a few lines from Canterbury Tales...it works.

Im not much into Shakespear.. Eveytime I read him, I always think of Ned Flanders, 'prettying' up the language...ack.
But I did enjoy Orthello with Lawrence Fishburn.

The Myth of the 'Apple' always brings 2 images to mind
1 : The throwing of the boquet at a wedding.
2 : More recently : the sunkist commercial , when the guy tosses the bottle into the trailer. If you caught the original run of that one, he sez "This was sent for the Prettiest Girl' or something to that effect. The line was was edited out for some reason.
-OoD

I wonder, have you gotten around to the Illuminatus! Trilogy yet? (prolly a silly question)


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OfflineDiscordja
Pope

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #822651 - 08/17/02 03:52 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

2 : More recently : the sunkist commercial , when the guy tosses the bottle into the trailer. If you caught the original run of that one, he sez "This was sent for the Prettiest Girl' or something to that effect. The line was was edited out for some reason.




Damn. Would have liked to see that. Illuminati scum, always trying to keep us down...

Yesss, I've gone through the Illuminatus a few times, in addition to all the other RAWilson I can get my grubby little hands on. 'Lil 'ole Discordian me...
You?


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Remember, it's only true if it makes you laugh...


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Anonymous

Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Discordja]
    #823009 - 08/17/02 09:05 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm Discordian on my fathers side.


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OfflineDiscordja
Pope

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #823055 - 08/17/02 09:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Niftay! I'm Discordian on my left side, except for one of my toes and that pesky elbow.


--------------------
Remember, it's only true if it makes you laugh...


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #824594 - 08/17/02 09:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Translation seems to play a big role in Greek Tragedies. One of my favorite 20th century painters, Francis Bacon (that sick bastard), once quoted the following line from one of his favorite translations of "The Furies" by Aeschylus:

"The reek of human blood brings a smile to my heart."

After years of searching, I have yet to find that translation. What I usually find is something like:

"For scent of mortal blood allures me here."

I like the Furies, though. It?s sort of like the directors-cut of Titus Andronicus -- a real gore-fest -- a classical-era Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

PS: I thought I'd visit the book club now that OoD is mod...


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Edited by papaver (08/17/02 09:58 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Papaver]
    #826156 - 08/18/02 05:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

ummmm, bacon.
-OoD


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #826277 - 08/18/02 05:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Bacon is cool!

I bet you?ve seen more real ones than I have. I?ve only seen one, at the UC Berkeley Art Museum...

Painting 1946, by Fancis Bacon...

Edit: Picture changed to link, as it was too big, and kind of off-topic...


--------------------


Edited by papaver (08/19/02 01:00 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 12 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #836877 - 08/22/02 08:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Do you read Greek or the english translations? I was thinking about taking some greek classes but was thinking they would for sure be harder than latin... Which is a pain in the butt in itself.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #837047 - 08/22/02 10:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Do you read Greek or the english translations?



Ahh, to be able to read greek, would be magic. sadly, i must rely on transaltions. thast dicey, when it comes to Greek.
I have found that works translated by Robert Fagles to be better than most. the Language seems 'alive' when he translates.

If you can learn greek, do so. Languages are wondeful. if I had my choice I would learn French. Some of my favorite book sare in French.
-OoD


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OfflineBullfrog1
Discovery BeyondImagination

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 272
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #840826 - 08/24/02 05:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Delphi,
Ah, the Tradgedies.
Above my desk sits in order:

Homer's Illiad and Odyssey
Racine's Phaedra
Plautus-The Rope and other plays
Menander-Plays and fragments
Aeschylus-The Oresteia
Aeschylus-Prometheus Bounds and other plays
The complete plays of Aristophanes
The complete plays of Sochocles
Ten Plays-Euripides
and many Roman workss

I grew up reading these books. Mostly paperbacks which are age worn. Someday I'll buy the hardcover copies.

I love computers but there is no doubt that I'd instantly give up this machine if I were forced to chose between the two.

Nice to hear that there are others who share an interest in the classics. It puts us in a class unto ourselves.

Bullfrog1


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Anonymous

Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Bullfrog1]
    #840851 - 08/24/02 05:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

I love computers but there is no doubt that I'd instantly give up this machine if I were forced to chose between the two.



A man after my own heart.
I was at the Library yesterday, and to my chagrin, the Card Catalogue is no more. Now, if you want look something up, you have to Log On - only to deal with tedious lag and the ineffectual Library assistant, who knows nothing about PC maintance.
The Library was my sancuary, a place to get away from machines. I like the feel of old books, and leafing through leather bound copies.
I have an interest in printing and typography, and I like the diffrent Faces that are no longer used with the advent of digital printing. I fear the day when Books will be somehting people hear about but rarely see.

I watched some kid spend 10 minutes trying to 'look up' something on the PC, when right behind him was a shiny new encyclopedia set. Ahh, technology.

Nice to meet you BulFrog!
Can you reccomend a good representative work of Roman literature? I've read the Greeks, but not the Romans.
-OoD


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OfflineBullfrog1
Discovery BeyondImagination

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 272
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #841923 - 08/25/02 10:15 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Delphi,
I know what you mean about the library, it sucks.
As far as Roman literature, Terence and Plautus are the most popular. Any book on Roman literature will include them.
Juvenal and Catullus are also great. I love Catullus for his poetry. Most of his poetry are about a particular woman, Lesbia by name, who it seems had rejected his love. His work has been subdued due to his vulgarity.
Menander too, is also a great writer. Most of his work are colloquial comedies set in rural Italy.
Virgil's Aeneid is comparable to Homer's Illiad since it picks up where the Illiad left off and follows Aeneas' journey to Italy where he supposedly founds Rome.
I'm much fonder of the Greeks, Aeschylus being the king of tradgedy.

Nice to meet you too.

Bullfrog1


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Invisibleoscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 1,215
Re: Greek tradgey [Re: Anonymous]
    #844844 - 08/26/02 05:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i focused on tragedy in undergrad, greek and shakespearian. i havent read them for "fun" in a long time though. euripides is really the guy to read, imo- the others are good but just groundwork for euripides to come along and really kick some ass. (though i like aeschylus and sophocles as much as the next guy and all). and the ladies! damn if we forget women were not always stage props for men... (or background noise for writers currently...)

if anyones interested in the romans... ovid's metamorphoses is a great step towards "epics" while still keeping pace with tragedy and poetry in general (though not a tragedy per se, but not quite epic in the textbook sense but for length)- read only mandelbaum's translation though- it is a great step into the world and meter. mandelbaum has a true mastery of translation (not that i read greek, but hes a man who understands meter and rhythm and ... well, just what i imagine to hear as they would have heard, and a story that was told when it was first read) . i even actually prefer ovids metamorphoses much more than either of homer, which was always a shock for a lot of people.

fagels is a great guy as well, as far as most of the translations go . he did a good job on the oresteia and the illad (which ive always had a personal hate for, but for reasons other than literary) and of course for homer... hes always been a reliable translator imo. and very beautiful; reading some parts of the iliad from him was like reading a new story in a way.


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? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"


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