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Offlinemooowi
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Why can you not make a giant pf cake
    #8204173 - 03/27/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

This may be a stupid question but I was thinking of it the other day. Why couldnt I take my grain jars and use brf and vermiculite the pf cake mix as a bulk substrate. I do not use pf cakes so this may be a dumb question its just brf and vermiculite would be a lot easier then horse poo so I figure someone could tell me why not.

It would be cool to have a 10 foot pf cake.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204238 - 03/27/08 11:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

it will contam

that simple


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Offlinemooowi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204290 - 03/27/08 11:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Even if the verm/brf is sterilized and the jars fully colonized? That sucks

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204315 - 03/27/08 11:27 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i have made a 3 and a half pint cake before.

just put use a cheese grater on 7 cakes into a pie pan.

makes the best first flush ever.

but then again thats just a casing.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: galadar]
    #8204521 - 03/28/08 12:04 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

eh, it might work if you're only using colonized cakes... but it won't last for 4 months like some bulks can >.>


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OfflineDr. Penguin
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8204558 - 03/28/08 12:13 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If you're looking for a decent bulk but are unwilling to work with manure, try coir. Bought from a pet shop it is as cheap as dirt, (pun intended) and is quite easy to work with. Coir amended well can perform quite well, not as well as poo in my opinion, but it will certainly outgrow BRF and verm.


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Edited by Dr. Penguin (03/28/08 01:25 AM)

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #8204596 - 03/28/08 12:23 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

BRF is extremely nutritous for mushrooms
infact, i'd say BRF is MUCH more nutritous than poo

that's why we use poo, enough nutrients for the shrooms but not much there for contams
BRF is open to all kind of bacterial contams, much more trich savvy, etc
hardly suitable in terms of bulk, but if you can make it work, you will have quite a flush

as far as potency... iunno


i would say try spawning the cakes to straw
depending where you live, Cow poo is extremely cheap and easy to use if you're vermahappy


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Offlinemooowi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204609 - 03/28/08 12:26 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

are you saying to try cow poo and verm? would that work good?

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204660 - 03/28/08 12:46 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)



It's possible but a waste considering you can get just as good yields with smaller cakes. Less time and less risk of not only contaminating, but stalling for theirs too much weight packed down. Anything past a half pint isn't optimal.

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Offlinemooowi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204740 - 03/28/08 01:22 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

dude why would I use a half pint of brf and verm for a quart of colinized grain. That would defeat the point of a bulk substrate.

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OfflineDr. Penguin
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204746 - 03/28/08 01:25 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

anarchOi, you are entirely correct. I just did my homework: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7725597#Post7725597

Post amended.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #8204753 - 03/28/08 01:29 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You can have the same success with brf cakes. Use a cheese greater and great the cake. That way theirs more inoculation points when spawning to manure.

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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8204802 - 03/28/08 02:14 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

As stated before, BRF is very good in small amounts to cultivate mycelium and fruit directly from it.
However it's a lot more dense than WBS or rye, so mycelium takes longer to colonize it.
As dumbfounded said, the bottom parts of really big BRF cake are compacted quiet a lot by the weight of the rest of the cake and probably would take a VERY long time to colonize completely.
This time increases the risk of contamination dramatically and is superfluous, when you can get the same results in a lot less time and a smaller risk of contams.

Creating "big cakes" is done pretty easily and a lot faster when crumble and case the half pint cakes to a tray.
Has always worked good for me. It's easy, very contam resistant and fruits quiet good (just as a big cake would do).

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Offlinemooowi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Fahkface]
    #8204811 - 03/28/08 02:22 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

you guys know im not talking about cakes. I am not saying make a big pf cake im saying use a colonized grain jar and then use the brf and vermiculite as a bulk substrate. So colonization time wouldn't be the problem because you would have colonized rye all over the place. The answer to my question was that it is much more prone to contamination.

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8204834 - 03/28/08 02:33 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, I didn't even read your original post (maybe I should start doing this...).
Anyway, beside the fact that it's a lot more likely to contam, it's a lot more expensive than using straw and poo or coir.
Additionally it also would take a lot longer to colonize (due to it's density), again increasing chances of contams.

But well... you got what you wanted...

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Fahkface]
    #8204880 - 03/28/08 03:12 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

BRF as a substrate eh? interesting take on it, But main reason would be price I'd say Though BRF is supposed to be 10 times as nutritious compared to poo or straw (according to an un-recalled source on this sight). Still it stands to reason that I've heard more people say poo/straw mixed or poo/coir mixed was the best.

Either way I'd suggest trying it out in a tray if you want I may even give it a shot myself.


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8205302 - 03/28/08 08:53 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dumbfounded1600 said:
It's possible but a waste considering you can get just as good yields with smaller cakes. Less time and less risk of not only contaminating, but stalling for theirs too much weight packed down. Anything past a half pint isn't optimal.





All of the cakes in my gallery are pint cakes
infact, i've never even fruited a half pint
Pint cake is the way to go


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8205354 - 03/28/08 09:26 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Pint cake is the way to go




Doubtful!

Half pints are advised for a reason.
The risk for pint cakes to contaminate is definitely bigger than for half pint cakes, since the mycelium is exposed a lot longer to the bacterial and mold benefiting micro climate in the jar.

It works most of the time, but isn't the way to go, in my opinion.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Fahkface]
    #8205380 - 03/28/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i never had any of my cakes contam >.>

i don't see how a cake in a sterilized jar could ever contam if it had dust filter and verm layer

half pints don't yeild anything >.> not even enough for one person to trip lol


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8205434 - 03/28/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

half pints don't yeild anything >.> not even enough for one person to trip lol




This I KNOW you're wrong










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Offlineunretarded
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8205436 - 03/28/08 09:56 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

.....But if you take the half pints and bury them like the TEK showes ...not break them up ,bury them whole in a casing !
I have a 150 gal aquarium ,that holds 60 1/2 pints buried .Easy and quick.
This is the method I am going to use next ,1/2 pints {because they colonize quickly} bury the whole 1/2 pint {contam resistant},along with 59 other 1/2 pints in a bulk type grow on the bottom of the tank
3 inches pearlite
1 inch verm
add cakes
cover cakes {about 1/2 to 1 inch thick over the top of cake}with casing...........wait for results.:bottledup:

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Offlinepsychophobia
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8205462 - 03/28/08 10:05 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Well those are flushes :eek:


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    "It’s a Cheshire-Cat," said the Duchess, "and that’s why. [...]"

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: unretarded]
    #8205463 - 03/28/08 10:05 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

dumbfounded....
those are some fucking pro ass grows

most nubs aren't going to get that...
we're talking about a realistic level for starters

but i forgot, you've never grown a mushroom, so you wouldn't know

i'm pretty glad i used pint cakes for my first grows
i was quite satisfied, and i'm not even sure if i'd continued if i'd been growing half-pint cakes

i've done half pint cakes since and it's pretty difficult to get such awesome pinsets like your stolen pictures

don't try to pretend like you know something
and stop following my posts looking to argue

it's quite annoying.


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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8205514 - 03/28/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anarchOi said:
BRF is extremely nutritous for mushrooms
infact, i'd say BRF is MUCH more nutritous than poo

that's why we use poo, enough nutrients for the shrooms but not much there for contams
BRF is open to all kind of bacterial contams, much more trich savvy, etc
hardly suitable in terms of bulk, but if you can make it work, you will have quite a flush







dude .... no

where the hell did you get this idea? BRF is probably the least nutritous substrate their is! Look at all of the old-time pros on this site (agar, roadkill, etc) and see if any of them use BRF, or do they use poo?

the reason why poo doesn't contam as easy as BRF has to do with pasturization vs. sterilization. Not because of lack of nutrients.


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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8205528 - 03/28/08 10:27 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

i don't see how a cake in a sterilized jar could ever contam if it had dust filter and verm layer




Most of the time contams get a grip while making a syringe, a LC or a g2g transfer.

However Verm and micopore tape don't mean that there can't get any contams in the jar, even after the knock up process.
These things diminish the risk of it, yes, but they are FAR from preventing it completely!

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Fahkface]
    #8205561 - 03/28/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Get off my nuts dumb ass. I was simply telling you you were wrong so stfu. Anyone can get those type of grows, especially with multi spore inoculation if they read.

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Offlineitsallnines
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8205574 - 03/28/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anarchOi said:
dumbfounded....
those are some fucking pro ass grows

most nubs aren't going to get that...
we're talking about a realistic level for starters

but i forgot, you've never grown a mushroom, so you wouldn't know

i'm pretty glad i used pint cakes for my first grows
i was quite satisfied, and i'm not even sure if i'd continued if i'd been growing half-pint cakes

i've done half pint cakes since and it's pretty difficult to get such awesome pinsets like your stolen pictures

don't try to pretend like you know something
and stop following my posts looking to argue

it's quite annoying.




he really hates it when you remind him of his lack of experience.

i would think that you would have major issues with contamination. everything loves to eat BRF - pediococcus, bacillus, molds, wild yeasts, you name it.


--------------------
by their fruits ye shall know them.

Edited by itsallnines (03/28/08 10:37 AM)

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OfflineMadnessinc
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8205594 - 03/28/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

People are using BRF as a semi bulk sub. Everything from the bottom of a Paint can (cleaned out and blah blah blah) to chinese take out containers (the plastic ones).
You want bulk, do bulk. You want half pints, do half pints. You can do ALOT with half pints, including breaking or grating it up, and spawning that to another sub of your choice (coir, poo, straw...) or just fruiting it.
It's not hard, and tends to be easiest to work with in the beginning while you figure out what it is you want to do within the hobby. After all with one fruited half pint, you can isolate your shroom into an lc, enjoy an evening or three with some friends, and then move onto rye innoc'ing for bulk. Or continue to make half pints because a lot of us don't do this for other's pleasures but our own. Sitting and reading that grow guides here can fill your head with a lot of information that you can then use to decide your best next course. based upon your prices and experience.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Madnessinc]
    #8205655 - 03/28/08 10:50 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

where the hell did you get this idea? BRF is probably the least nutritous substrate their is! Look at all of the old-time pros on this site (agar, roadkill, etc) and see if any of them use BRF, or do they use poo?

the reason why poo doesn't contam as easy as BRF has to do with pasturization vs. sterilization. Not because of lack of nutrients.




Where the hell did you get that shit? BRF is 5-10(exaggeration) times the nutrition of any bulk substrate. No you dumbass. manure has micro bacteria that helps fight off contamination when pasturized. If you sterilized you would kill it and it would easily contaminate as easily as an LC would.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8206029 - 03/28/08 12:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

sterilized poo doesn't contam as easily as you suggest

lots of people on here have successfully grown with sterilized bulk substrate


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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8206077 - 03/28/08 12:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dumbfounded1600 said:
Quote:

half pints don't yeild anything >.> not even enough for one person to trip lol




This I KNOW you're wrong














Hey DF, if you're going to use other members pics, you should at least credit them in your posts rather than leading people who don't know any better to believe that those are your grows. You're giving the false impression that you're speaking from actual experience.


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Quick WBS Prep

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: FooMan]
    #8206124 - 03/28/08 12:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

O. No those aren't my pics. Just shutting anarch0i up.

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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8206130 - 03/28/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

They must not have a high % of spore loads then if they can sterilize manure and not have any problems.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8206298 - 03/28/08 01:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

not everyone uses spores

and i'm pretty sure none of them use spores to colonize a bulk


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Offlineunretarded
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: FooMan]
    #8206493 - 03/28/08 01:52 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

:wetself: 100 thumbs up on those cakes!!!!! :headbang3:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: :greenthumb:


Now picture 60 of those in a 150 gallon aquarium....

Edited by unretarded (03/28/08 01:57 PM)

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: unretarded]
    #8206725 - 03/28/08 02:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You use spores to colonize grain and use the grain to do the bulk. Of course you don't use spores to colonize bulk. You guys got way off topic.

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8206823 - 03/28/08 03:09 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

or you use agar or LC to colonize grain, MS would be a waste on grain


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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8206838 - 03/28/08 03:12 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


or you use agar or LC to colonize grain, MS would be a waste on grain




Why would you say that?
Grains can perfectly be inoculated with multispore solutions. That's what's done most of the time.
Agar is an advanced technique to isolate or clone or to "clean up" a print.

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8207086 - 03/28/08 04:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anarchOi said:
or you use agar or LC to colonize grain, MS would be a waste on grain




:confused: well i must have accomplished the impossible

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8207949 - 03/28/08 07:25 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

no i meant, why waste spores when you could make an LC and save them

i know MS to grain works fine, i was talking about the sake of saving material :smile:


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: anarchOi]
    #8208055 - 03/28/08 07:55 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Because LC's contaminate more easily then any other option.

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8208893 - 03/29/08 12:12 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I use nothing but MS to grain I have never once got contam doing it thats why you do it 0 chance of contam.

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: mooowi]
    #8208930 - 03/29/08 12:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Bullshit, There was a guy name Moe howard here about ten years ago,That did it with the 1/4-1/2 gal jars...

Edited by Brainiac (03/29/08 12:49 AM)

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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Brainiac]
    #8209344 - 03/29/08 05:55 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
Bullshit, There was a guy name Moe howard here about ten years ago,That did it with the 1/4-1/2 gal jars...




Again, no one said it won't work!
It's just the risk of contams that increases!
That's it!

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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: Fahkface]
    #8209528 - 03/29/08 08:20 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

fahk, we're above this

we don't need to argue with a bunch of nubs

i'm not posting in this thread again


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Offlinewocka
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8209559 - 03/29/08 08:51 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i suggest coco-coir too. after using it the first time i spawned about 1 parts rye berry spawn to 3 parts coir (aprox - maybe 1 to 2)

this colonized SUPER fast, faster than anything else i worked with, (BRF,straw)

within a week the spawn had fully colonized the bulk substrate of coir, i just recently added a 50/50 peat/verm casing and cant wait to see how it does!

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Offlinejccc
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: wocka]
    #8209597 - 03/29/08 09:19 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: jccc]
    #8209638 - 03/29/08 09:46 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

anarchOi - you little nubby nub nubby nubbber who nubbed his way through the thread :smile:

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Invisiblecubes4cancer
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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #16173868 - 05/02/12 09:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:rofl2: :rofl:


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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: cubes4cancer]
    #16174481 - 05/02/12 11:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cubes4cancer said:
:rofl2: :rofl:




You bumped a 4-year-old thread for this?


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Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Why can you not make a giant pf cake [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #16174808 - 05/03/12 12:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

cubes4cancer said:
:rofl2: :rofl:




You bumped a 4-year-old thread for this?



Me thinks cubes bumped this because he :trippinbawelz:


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