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Offlinebabyshroom
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Registered: 09/09/01
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Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back?
    #819580 - 08/16/02 07:48 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

My friend is getting totally frustrated, as all her recent attempts have fallen victim to the evil green bastard! Some during incubation, some more after incubation but before the first flush, and every other one failed after the first flush. She is using the same method she previously had great success with, so she's really stumped as to what she's overlooking.
If anyone with lots of green experience has a second to check her routine and possibly pinpoint her problem, she would be very grateful.
She washes her jars just like her dishes - no alcohol or bleach, but she does clean the lids with alcohol-soaked cotton. She usually uses Pennington's finch seed, and prepares it by bringing water to a boil, pouring in seed, immediately reducing to a simmer and timing for 30 minutes. She rinses, drains for 20-30 minutes, and then loads her quarts about half full. She pc's at 15 psi for 75 minutes, waits for the pressure to subside, opens pc, shakes substrate and returns to pc for complete cooling. On occasion, she moves the jars from the pc (to make room for more) and places them in a fruiting box which has been cleaned with alcohol-soaked cotton. She replaces the lid and leaves them for 6-8 hours before innoculating. She disinfects her hands and the work area with alcohol soaked cotton for her hands and the counter, and mega Lysol sprayed into the area. She works with grain transfers and rehydrated spore syringes. Some of the syringes are homemade and some are from vendors. She has previously used many homemade syringes with great success. She sterilizes her needles before use if homemade, but doesn't bother with syringes from vendors.
When her grain is completely colonized, she pasteurizes straw from Gardenridge - no idea what kind it is (package just says "maxi-straw") but she has used 20+ bales (each bail is enough for 3 boxes) of the stuff and previously had great success. She uses a laundry bag to cook the straw in, and is very careful that ALL the straw is completely covered in water, throughout the past. process. She drains the straw over the sink until completely cool, typically a few hours. On occasion, she will throw cooled straw into a fruiting box for 12-24 hours until she has time to spawn it.
Her spawn is typically broken up in a strong ziploc about 24 hours before she plans to have cooled straw. She cleans her box very well with alcohol soaked cotton and layers the straw and grain 6-12 times, for a depth of 3-6 inches, depending upon the amount of spawn available to her. She covers with black drop cloth, which she punches many holes in, and tucks all the edges down tightly around the substrate, and places a brick on top. She moves the brick around the box, making sure it is all compressed during the first 3-4 days of incubation. Once myc. is peeking through holes in the plastic throughout the box, she removes the plastic, cases and moves to a lighted area. She fans a minimum of 2 times a day, and up to 5 on weekends, spending a good minute on each box and fanning vigorously. She mists lightly as needed with 1:10 h202:h20. The failures are of many strains, from many different batches of past. straw, and with various casing ingredients. She has used bed-a-beast (this product is a recent addition to her experimental products, and she initially thought it was the culprit), Jiffy Mix, and a combination of the 2. She always throws in a couple handfuls of crushed oyster shell (the kind from the pet store - she's always used this) and nukes for 10 minutes on high. Her casing is kept in an airtight container in the fridge, and used as needed.
The failures have included every combination - vendor syringes, homemade syringes, numerous batches of straw, coir, Jiffy, uncased, everything!!
What in the hell is she suddenly doing wrong? The green she gets is preceded by massive white stuff that appears and spreads VERY quickly, and then turns to a lovely shade of green - kind of like rye grass.
Has anyone had this type of situation and found the answer? I know there are areas where she could be more sterile. But then, that's always been the case, and the failures are only recent.
Anyone with similar experiences - she would love to hear how you finally resolved the greenie meanies. Sorry for the long post.


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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OfflineMacey Howard
Formally MOE HOWARD
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Registered: 07/03/99
Posts: 14,165
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: babyshroom]
    #819752 - 08/16/02 08:42 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinebabyshroom
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: Macey Howard]
    #819909 - 08/16/02 09:52 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

She started with birdseed, because she couldn't find rye berries. She was too stupid to realize berries = kernels, and kept walking by that bag of rye at the health food place. She kept looking for something that said "berries". She started her first few rye jars over the weekend, and (sadly) discovered green in one of them this a.m.
This is her first case of green prior to colonization of sterilized substrate. Now that she is having problems at ALL stages, she is wondering if her entire environment has been contaminated. And if so, how would she correct the problem? She's never been Sally Homemaker, but she does know how to vacuum and dust. Do this mold crap get into air handlers and circulate throughout the house? When investigating the green she's been hit with, some boxes appear to have started in the substrate, and others in the casing. She has tried Jiffy + oyster shell, Coco + oyster shell, Jiffy/coco + oyster shell, and no casing at all. She never fruited without casing before, but of the 2 she tried, one went WAY green overnight, and the other was immediately cased, it hopes it wouldn't fail. It then fruited once (an okay flush, but less than her typical average dried ounce per box), got 2 pins, and then got the lovely bed of snow precursor to green while she slept last night.
There is one common factor in all cases except the green jar she found this morning...the straw. It crossed her mind that perhaps her candy thermometer is no longer keeping an accurate temp and her straw has been sterilized, rather than pasteurized. She can't imagine any other cause, unless it is a sterility issue - which brings her back to the air handler. If she sterilizes each area she works in, prior to exposing her ingredients to the area, wouldn't that be enough to hold the green at bay?
She needs to decide whether she should look for another source of straw (or other bulk sub) or spend her weekend cleaning like a madwoman. On one hand, she doesn't like to clean. On the other, she had a hard time finding a source for straw in the big city, and hasn't had any luck finding Scott's or any other compost type product that growers are having success with. What would you do?


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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OfflineKilla420
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Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 1,055
Loc: Down South
Last seen: 8 days, 7 hours
Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: babyshroom]
    #821007 - 08/16/02 03:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

"final thought= birdseeds suck for shroom growing"

Not true at all. I have been having great success with birdseed ever since I have gotten a pc. Wayyyyyy bigger mushrooms than the old brf/verm ever did. I dont know about the potency yet b/c I havent tried them yet. It's just the way you prepare it that makes it hard. I have tried the simmering method along with the one where you just add water to the jars and pc and always got green mold. What I do now is just rinse your birdseed off for however many jars you are using and let the seed soak for 24 hours. This way it will soak up all the water you need and it also germinates whatever bacteria crap that grows. You can tell b/c when you strain the water, you can smell how the bacteria were already growing so when you pc, no problems at all.

All I can say is that to clean out everything you used as much as possible. Especially the terrain that you have been using that has gotten green mold in. I pour a lot of bleach and water untill its filled to the top and let soak overnight. I use to always get green mold but after getting a pc and cleaning everything out, along with switching rooms, I havent got green mold again.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: babyshroom]
    #822806 - 08/17/02 06:41 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If you have grown with these procedures in the past and have not had any problems, then my guess is that you need to look somwhere else for your problem. Green (trichoderma) is a spore forming contaminant which is primarly spread through the air. With this in mind, a few things to try:

1) change the filters in your furnace
2) clean the carpets, drapes, etc...
3) turn off anything which stirs air (furnace, fans, etc) a few hours before you start to work
4) if you are in the kitchen to use the stove, be sure to clean around the fridge
5) Remember that 90% or so of airborne contamination is within 1ft of the floor, work on counter tops
6) Trich loves acidic environments (pH 4.0-5.5), raise your pH
7) Increase air circulation and decrease humidity to the lowest the muchrooms being grown will allow

Finally, remember that it is harder to get rid of contamination than to keep it from showing up in the first place. Toss anything that you can easily replace such as glass jars, rings, lids, coolers, etc. Anything that you don't replace should be cleaned with care. Use a 10% bleach solution on anything that you can. Also be sure that you clean yourself before working and that you wear clean clothes and shoes as well. You might consider working with smaller batches until you are sure the contamination is gone... less to clean. If you do get a contamination, don't open the jar or bag, simply toss it in the trash. Because you are in a war, remove anything that is suspect immediately. Don't bother with isolation or waiting to see if it really is bad for sure. Get rid of it as soon as you notice something odd. Look for anything that has changed in your environment around the time that the contamination first started showing up. Good luck.



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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: Seuss]
    #823477 - 08/17/02 01:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Some good advice here, Seuss. I'm printing it off and I'm starting at the to of your list. Determined to beat this crud, I had losing!


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: babyshroom]
    #823480 - 08/17/02 01:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I am literate. Sorry, I typed a post while I was buzzed. Reminder to self...stay away from keyboard when partying.


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Registered: 11/07/99
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Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: babyshroom]
    #824821 - 08/18/02 04:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

the core problem is your lack of ventilation, imo.
fanning twice a day just is not up to what is required for good casing care.
a fruiting casing needs to be vented 1-3 times an hour,
so my advice is to automate your grow set-up with a humidifier/hepa air filter running at least once an hour to ventilate with fresh humid air.


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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Why Does the Green Keep Coming Back? [Re: Hippie3]
    #829504 - 08/20/02 06:11 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Hippie - you're right. Ventilation is the weak link in my setup. I'm working hard to compensate by throwing in extra fannings whenever possible. I'm also using more passive ventilation on the fruiting boxes, by replacing lids with loosely secured glad wrap.
I'd love to go automated, but haven't come up with a logistically feasible method, given the amount of space available, and the number of 12x12x8 boxes being used. For the time being, I believe I'm stuck with manual. I did a major cleaning in the room used for fruiting, and bought stock in Lysol and Clorox over the weekend.
I'm going to do a thorough bleach cleansing onh every jar and box for a while, and see if it eliminates my problem. Two nice flushes over the weekend were encouraging, just hoping they make it to a second flush without failing!
Thanks for all the suggestions.


--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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