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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #8183479 - 03/23/08 02:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zinglons Acolyte said:
ya, there is history among the indians that coleus was sometimes used when salvia was unavailible




First of all, can you cite your reference? I know it was considered the "male" part of that pair but how does that imply psychoactivity?

Second, why is there not one piece of literature that explains the type of actives contained in coleus? Hell, the Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants tested it on a group of people and 33% said they felt a mild marijuana-like high and the other 67% said they felt nothing. What does that say about placebo?


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Aopocetx]
    #8183524 - 03/23/08 02:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Quote:

Zinglons Acolyte said:
ya, there is history among the indians that coleus was sometimes used when salvia was unavailible




First of all, can you cite your reference? I know it was considered the "male" part of that pair but how does that imply psychoactivity?

Second, why is there not one piece of literature that explains the type of actives contained in coleus? Hell, the Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants tested it on a group of people and 33% said they felt a mild marijuana-like high and the other 67% said they felt nothing. What does that say about placebo?



my reference is from growing the hallucinogens on erowid

and tere just hasnt been any research, thats not very uncommon, look at calea zacatechichi for example, theres no infor mation other than "a terpine has been isolated" and every plant has some sort of terpines, just a few are active tho


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna

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Invisiblescruffymafia
Dreamer


Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 2,234
Loc: Wonderland
Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Aopocetx]
    #8183594 - 03/23/08 02:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Scruffy I think your report is bullshit for one reason and that reason is because you experienced something known as "placebo" as Coleus doesn't do what you just said it does. It does nothing at all. That's just my opinion though.




How can you explain the trippy dreams that were unusally vivid and memorable?

What about the effects that were impossible to shake, even when i tried to?

The first E i ever took was fake (it was a fat red dove made outa tryptamine and BZP aparently). I knew after 1hr that fuck all was happening and that what little that was happening definaely wasnt E.

I am not easily fooled into the placebo affect, this drug is definately active. Just not very active.

If i was going to have a placebo affect you would think my mind would base it off another similar drug that i have experienced.. Like salvia or weed. Not shrooms..

It was a pleasant experience.


--------------------
This is the strangest life I've ever known.

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Invisibledaytripper23
?
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Aopocetx]
    #8183655 - 03/23/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Just to let you know, there is never any true evidence of psychoactivity.

Essentially, whether its LSD or coleus, you are relying on an entirely subjective report of the effects of this drug. Its unobservable, because to understand whether a chemical or compound has effect, if its "truly" psychedelic, one must somehow observe the dynamic of the mind and body. This is impossible. Perhaps this is just nitpicking, but this is exactly what is exploited to create backwards drug policies.


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: daytripper23]
    #8183660 - 03/23/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Just to let you know, there is never any true evidence of psychoactivity.

Essentially, whether its LSD or coleus, you are relying on an entirely subjective report of the effects of this drug. Its unobservable, because to understand whether a chemical or compound has effect, if its "truly" psychedelic, one must somehow observe the dynamic of the mind and body. This is impossible. Perhaps this is just nitpicking, but this is exactly what is exploited to create backwards drug policies.



qft


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna

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InvisibleTaharka
The Root of the Problem
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 686
Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #8183669 - 03/23/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

We could always feed it to animals with implanted electrodes. There is one paper in which the "psychoactivity" of Calea was confirmed in this way. Smoking or drinking Calea doesn't do anything very apparent either.

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: scruffymafia]
    #8184125 - 03/23/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What if it was all placebo, buddy? You sound very optimistic your optimistic mindset could have influenced you.
I´m sorry for you guys but Coleus is only a beautiful garden plant, no more than that.


FH

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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: felixhigh]
    #8184999 - 03/23/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

felixhigh said:
What if it was all placebo, buddy? You sound very optimistic your optimistic mindset could have influenced you.
I´m sorry for you guys but Coleus is only a beautiful garden plant, no more than that.


FH



lol this argument could go on and on and on... the point is that niether of us got the effects we were expecting

we cant be sure whether or not it really is active without scientific evidence though, i agree with that, fact is, none of us has the money or resources to put out a bona fide scientific research paper, so all we have is our bioassays


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna

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Invisiblescruffymafia
Dreamer


Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 2,234
Loc: Wonderland
Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #8185806 - 03/24/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Qft

Just because there hasnt been a compound isolated yet that is active it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. I think FH is right that there is alot of expectations that follow through into placebo effects. But i still stay firm that it is active in some way, if it was just a placebo it wouldnt have lasted for 4 hours.


--------------------
This is the strangest life I've ever known.

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OfflineAopocetx
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Registered: 03/20/06
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: scruffymafia]
    #8186442 - 03/24/08 09:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So the only person (people?) in this thread who felt anything say it was mild and almost non-existent? So why do it at all? Make a tea of 400 leaves and report back.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

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OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Aopocetx]
    #8188295 - 03/24/08 05:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

So the only person (people?) in this thread who felt anything say it was mild




Quote:

So why do it at all?




i can think of a thousand "mild" things that people do everyday, including pot.

most things people do everyday that are not necessities for living are usually mild. so why do them? why comb your hair or brush your teeth?
varying subtleties of experience can form a greater achievement than one great experience, people usually take what they can get while its there.

what i experienced from coleus was not a placebo, and i noticed the wild coleus i tried was much stronger than homegrown. it may be that in its natural environment it produces something in greater quantities.

if the natives in mexico experienced something from it and it grows wild there in the hot-hot sun, and i experienced something from it in fiji where it grows wild in the hot-hot sun, but no one seems to feel much from it when it grows indoors under flourescent light and a little ambience from windows, then its probably an environment ordeal.

we could also have the wrong genetics, as we know different strains of the same species of cacti and plants can produce varying alkaloids, how is it not different with coleus sp? its similar as salvia in that it can spread by getting top-heavy and bending over to root itself in the dirt again - thus perpetuating the same genetics.
there may be wild varieties that have more "wild" in their genetics, that arent bred indoors or in greenhouses under flouros and diffused light being fed foney nutrients and living in a plastic environment.

the best effect i got from coleus back here in the states, was from stuff i planted in the ground in the full sun, and still it wasnt nearly as potent as the stuff i tried in fiji. tasted the same, not nearly the same effect.

placebo can be strong, but nothing like what i experienced.

anyone who says it does nothing just hasnt tried enough or the right way/with the right plant.
same as the people who smoke salvia and dont hold in their hits and say "that shits bunk"

theres a million possibilities to why a lot of people dont experience effects from specific plants, some people think wild dagga is crap too.
truth is, dagga grown in america is harsh and nasty and does very little, but dagga grown in africa is HIGHLY SEDATING, authorities there consider its use a "drug problem"

you guys are open-minded folk, please keep your foot in the door on this one until theres more research done.
until then grow as much of it as you can, and enjoy its beautiful colors.

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: CptnGarden]
    #8188760 - 03/24/08 07:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CptnGarden said:
you guys are open-minded folk, please keep your foot in the door on this one until theres more research done.
until then grow as much of it as you can, and enjoy its beautiful colors.




I intend to. This is one plant I've been meaning to explore for some time. However, if it falls short, I'll still have lots of beautiful plants to look at while I'm tripping on something else. :wink:


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: CptnGarden]
    #8188917 - 03/24/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Some people have the capacity to enjoy and appreciate mild things in life without feeling the need to be bowled over.

Myself, I am absolutely sure what I experienced was not placebo. The taste was awful and the effects somewhat mild and short-lived, but definite and in my opinion pleasant.

I did not want to share my experience but I guess I will, if only in defense of the plant. I quidded some leaves slowly and thoroughly (probably about twenty leaves, maybe more or less, can't really remember) outside after sundown. Awful, awful, awful taste. I went inside and maybe thirty minutes passed. My father was sitting across the room from me on a couch. I had no expectations, having previous attempts with Coleus with no effects whatsoever, and I was spending my time thinking and acting as if I had taken nothing, I was definitely not sitting and trying to look around for effects. Then seeming at a random time looking across the room I noticed something different that caught my eye. The colors and perception of space were slightly different. I watched over the next few minutes colors become gentle but bright. I was content now, having gotten something out of the plant after several trials. Me and my father started conversing about something and a few minutes into the conversation slowly the whole room and everything in it started to shrink. I was surprised but not alarmed. I watched as the whole room very slowly shrunk to the size of a large dollhouse and my father, who was speaking to me, to the size of a large doll. My mind completely sober thought-wise I continued our conversation and after a few minutes size and space perception returned to normal. Soon after colors returned to normal. Total effects for me were under an hour. I don't know whether or not I'll ever be able to repeat effects like that again. The effects to me seemed like a very mild and short-lived mushroom experience. I noticed no euphoria. I enjoyed it but am not itching to attempt it again because of the awful taste and the multiple negative bioassays. But it was definitely no placebo that time.


--------------------
tradelist

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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Ekstaza]
    #8189370 - 03/24/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
Quote:

CptnGarden said:
you guys are open-minded folk, please keep your foot in the door on this one until theres more research done.
until then grow as much of it as you can, and enjoy its beautiful colors.




I intend to. This is one plant I've been meaning to explore for some time. However, if it falls short, I'll still have lots of beautiful plants to look at while I'm tripping on something else. :wink:




theres keeping things positive and open-minded.

your a brilliant researcher ek, i would be excited to see some worthwhile bioassays from you and various other experienced ethno-garden regulars.

someone definitely needs to try some extracts, and make some concentrates.

i would be glad to but i have no time and no money right now, ill try to grow a huge yard full of it this spring/summer though and see where that leads. but if i achieve what i did in fiji it still wont get us very far cause its still the same persons word for it, and people are looking for multiple peoples experiences as proof.

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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #8189498 - 03/24/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Recently, salvinorine-like substances (diterpene) was discovered. The chemical structure has not yet been determined. It is possible that by drying or burning the diterpene, it chemical structure is modified into potent material. It must futher be researched.

-Plants of the Gods (revised and expanded edition) by Schultes, Hofmann and Ratch 2001

buy this book!

EG

Edited by ethnoguy (03/24/08 09:59 PM)

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Invisiblescruffymafia
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Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 2,234
Loc: Wonderland
Re: Coleus blumei Bioassy [Re: ethnoguy]
    #8189787 - 03/24/08 11:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well it looks like a few of us are actually reporting very similar effects, a very good sign of activity if you ask me.

Basic effects it had on me:

- Giddiness, for about 5 minutes.
- Color changes, hue and saturation - almost like a big open log fire was going.
- Spacial change, i thought my table was alot taller than it was and every think seemed way more 3D.
- Sedation.

I might plant some outside to see if there is a potency change. I heard they look alot different when outside.

Cheers for the book lead ethnoguy, looks worth buying!


--------------------
This is the strangest life I've ever known.

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