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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hybrids [Re: whiterasta]
    #4772899 - 10/08/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
Quote:

About one time in a hundred, along this 'line' a third sector will open up. This is by definition, a 'hybrid' produced by dikaryotic pairings from each strain.




LOL I suppose it could not be just intermingled compatable mycelia as dikaryotic pairings are impossible. Only monokaryons can 'pair"and if you have already paired them and are using agar wedges of dikaryotic mycelia, tell me how this "hybrid" occurred?





Sorry my friend, but it is you who are mistaken. Dikaryons are capable of hybridizing. In fact, I learned the exact procedure I mentioned above from paul stamets at his master's seminar. I have no idea the exact process beyond the mechanics of setting up the experiment because it's the mycelium that does all the work. The grower simply places the two sets of dikaryons on the same petri dish and then sits back and watches. One must be very careful at this stage of human understanding of how fungi work when using phrases such as "only monokaryons can pair", because such reasoning is incorrect.
RR


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4782033 - 10/10/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ANASTAMOSIS Dikaryon to Dikaryon mating. Bisporous mushroom spores have both nuceli present and hybrids formed are via this route. IE Agaricus bisporous.

Conventional breeding programs with heterothallic mushrooms tend to be more controlled via MONOKARYON to MONOKARYON mating. The frequency of mating will be VERY HIGH the more unrelated the strains within a species. Lethal combinations may need to be worked out in the first generation of spores produced. So your actual germination/mating rates may be low.

Species to species and Genus to Genus, would require techniques that bypass Compatablity systems. IE protoplast isolation and fusion.


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Offlineyoungbae
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Re: Hybrids [Re: EonTan]
    #4835675 - 10/21/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i'm trying to make new hybrid...but...it's very difficult...
since i've been trying to nearly 1 year....
so little result i obtained....
but the compensatory will enough....


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OfflineJJ01769
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Re: Hybrids [Re: youngbae]
    #4848979 - 10/25/05 02:33 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I dont understand this stuff exactly. Im still learning all the LC and agar things but I was thinking. What about using two different LC from like the Karo/water and put them in a WBS jar? This maybe completely off and everything but it just popped in my head. Possible to work?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hybrids [Re: JJ01769]
    #4849297 - 10/25/05 05:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You would have fruits from two different strains. You could even do it with different species. They will very rarely hybridize that way.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Hybrids [Re: Anonymous]
    #4958292 - 11/20/05 12:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

why wouldnt strains of cubensis be compatible? After all the delineation of a species often relates to its mating compatibility.
At the end of the day a hydrid of two strains of cubensis is still the same species - so its not a hybrid, just a new substrain of that species.
The likelyhood of this being successful between different SPECIES as opposed to strain is FAR more challenging. If you think it will be done in your back room I think your probably dreaming.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hybrids [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #4958950 - 11/20/05 06:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Correct, strains of the same species are much more compatable and dikaryotic/dikaryotic pairings are also possible, but not likely. It will happen occasionally however. I've also put different species in the same substrate before. For example, you can mix copelandia and cubensis in the same manure or straw tray and they'll fruit at the same time. I've never seen they hybridize this way however.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineWhiteBunny
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Re: Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4981139 - 11/25/05 07:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
As an alternative to putting two types of spores in a jar, try inoculating two different isolated strains of one species onto the same agar wedge. Simply transfer two wedges of myc to the same plate. When the two grow together, you'll see a 'line' form between strains. Sometimes one strain will gobble up and 'eat' the other one. Sometimes, each holds its own turf and the line stays put between them, where each has its own territory on the petri dish. About one time in a hundred, along this 'line' a third sector will open up. This is by definition, a 'hybrid' produced by dikaryotic pairings from each strain. It is definately and absolutely possible, and I've done it. Next fall, when I have time to resume the hobby, I'll do it again and write a photo documented tek. Until then, anyone who has time and inclination to experiment, now knows how to go about it.




Where you able to fruit this hybrid and if so have a print or LC made?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hybrids [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #4982217 - 11/26/05 02:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, and yes. Dikaryon to dikaryon pairings are quite common in the commercial mushroom industry. Let's say you have one strain of agaricus that has large meaty fruitbodies, and another strain that gives prolific flushes. Dikaryon-dikaryon pairings in this case would be called for in an attempt to get the best of both worlds.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineWhiteBunny
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Re: Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4983190 - 11/26/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

can I askj what were the two strain that you used to get the hybrid?

WB


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Offlineshoeareyou
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Re: Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8178959 - 03/22/08 07:57 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

that would be absoloutely fantastic RogerRabbit :smile: Go on my son =)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
As an alternative to putting two types of spores in a jar, try inoculating two different isolated strains of one species onto the same agar wedge. Simply transfer two wedges of myc to the same plate.  When the two grow together, you'll see a 'line' form between strains.  Sometimes one strain will gobble up and 'eat' the other one.  Sometimes, each holds its own turf and the line stays put between them, where each has its own territory on the petri dish.  About one time in a hundred, along this 'line' a third sector will open up.  This is by definition, a 'hybrid' produced by dikaryotic pairings from each strain.  It is definately and absolutely possible, and I've done it.  Next fall, when I have time to resume the hobby, I'll do it again and write a photo documented tek.  Until then, anyone who has time and inclination to experiment, now knows how to go about it.




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