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Invisiblecleeen
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Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
    #8275017 - 04/12/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Im a physics major, almost done with my degree.  But I am just an undergrad, so i am basically still physics noob sauce.  There are a few here with real physics knowledge.  Some of them posted a bunch in this thread (Ill let you guess who :wink: )

There was some thread I posted a bunch of shit about relativity in lately.  I dont remember what it was.  I think I was high when posting alot of it, so I dont know how coherent it was.  :stoned:

:einstein:




And the image i had of you was of a middle aged , bitter and prematurely crusty Lab technician .. except that most lab technicians i have met are more mature than your posts represent .

An undergrad physics major .. Bwahahhaha .. now it makes sense .. oh man thats really rich .. such a loud mouthed know it all bastard  .. oh wow .. the arrogance of youth eh ? .. no point in trying to convince you of things that are intellectually and emotionally beyond your limited ability .. jeepers - what a toe rag you turned out to be !


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.


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OfflinePilzeEssen


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
Loc: USA
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
    #8275049 - 04/12/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

the whole experiment almost points to the universe as a whole, being aware, being conscious.


--------------------
"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."

If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... :frown:


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8275245 - 04/12/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Whats your educational background and profession?


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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: PilzeEssen]
    #8276205 - 04/13/08 12:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PilzeEssen said:
the whole experiment almost points to the universe as a whole, being aware, being conscious.




Beautiful comment PilzeEssen ..

Some people act as if the 'Universe' (insert wording of your choice) should bend to their will without question or judgment , as if their 'human' intelligence or standing is so superior or rare or ever so precious .

But , as you say , taking the "universe" as conscious opens a whole lot of other aspects to consider .. In fact to higher beings or even beings in a different realms to us (the 'watchers' if you like) , the insulting ignorant arrogance of some people would be reason never to open doors to them , and never to engage with them .. a very wise and honorable strategy most surely .


Edited by cleeen (04/13/08 05:45 AM)


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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
    #8276207 - 04/13/08 12:42 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Whats your educational background and profession?




It is irrelevant to the topic . I dont rightly know your age DC , yet as we experience more of life it seems to me that we lay less attention to someones background (educational or professional) and more to the content of the messages they convey .

I have been a University student as well no doubt , and it is easy but quite wrong to associate achievements there directly to real world values .. and even tho i was really not susceptible to it myself (several reasons) I can attest that most all degree students look back on the content of their university learning and recognize it for being far less significant than they thought at the time while they were studying it.

I recall without much interest Undergraduate Physics courses i took more than 20 years ago , yet i recall with great interest the insights i gained from School physics years before that . When i was at school as a teenager we looked into quantum physics and reviewed the film content from the Johannsen double slit electron experiment .


The Quantum world actually makes a lot of intuitive sense to normal beings , and a background in Physics may well if anything blur the eye to recognizing some very important dimensions .

Sure the Particle accelerators etc for instance are great "engineering" feats but they aren't at all such significant physics achievements because the science involved is so simple .. i.e. crashing protons head on at full speed . The engineering makes it all possible , the physics of particle accelerators in the main is simple push and shove newtonian stuff . Its the technical engineering of the sensors and magnetic accelerators that is the watershed achievement .

Similarly the Atomic bomb development by the USA near the end of WWII was not seen by the great physics minds of the time as any great physics revelation .. but those same people and more saw it as a rather great engineering feat .

Thank you Annom for your post below .. i agree that there are better ways to construct a discussion .


Edited by cleeen (04/13/08 10:59 AM)


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8276658 - 04/13/08 05:25 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

:rolleyes: :chillpill:


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OfflineTheWall
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Annom]
    #8277206 - 04/13/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

cleeen.
lol:thumbdown:


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8277331 - 04/13/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

:rofl2:
haha, are you serious?  You think particle accelerators can be explained with Newtonian physics?  Holy fuck man, look into the Standard Model, my god is that shit out of control.

The nuclear bomb was considered an absurdly large leap forward in physics at the time.  ha I wish I could meet you, Id find you such an absurd human being.

Pretty soon when I get bored enough Ill post some experimental evidence against all the shit you are saying, and provide a more rigorous explanation of why you are ridiculous.


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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: TheCow]
    #8284910 - 04/14/08 11:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


haha, are you serious? You think particle accelerators can be explained with Newtonian physics? Holy fuck man, look into the Standard Model, my god is that shit out of control.





What part does your misunderstanding require clarification with thecow ? ..
The acceleration at less than the speed of light ? .. is it that that particularly gives you difficulty ? ..

... or is it the holding a beam of photons in a magnetic field that gives you problems ?

The particle accelerator is just that it accelerates particles .. thats not quantum mechanics is it ? .. are you thinking straight or what ? .. how about you be a little less precious and declare the substance of your disagreement .
The 'particle accelerators' are of course also 'particle colliders' .. would using the term 'collider' make it easier for you to get a grasp on what is going on ? ..

The magnetic field as a tube acts to accelerate the particles to the speed where the head to head impact of collision essentially breaks the structure into component pieces .. whats so quantum about that ?



The measurement of the particle components released by the collision are indeed technology .. Computers , sensors etc etc all tech engineering .

The particle colliding experiments are engineering feats and without the engineering and the engineers the physicists involved would be struggling to get close to a functional system environment .

Be as emotional with reality as much as you feel you need to be , but the truth is that the particle accelerators/colliders are constructed by engineers and technicians using materials and real world technology .. the particle accelerators/colliders are not quantum machines .. perhaps you should pay more respect to engineering .


Quote:


The nuclear bomb was considered an absurdly large leap forward in physics at the time.




No , Actually that is not even remotely true , you could revisit the material documents and timeline of history .

The atomic bomb is a device , the comprehensive physics theory that showed such energy could be released was historically present well before that .

When Einstein lodged his document to Roservelt in 1939 the Atomic bomb had not been created . That work began years later .



The actual practical construction of the Bomb was undertaken by a new engineering core of the military .



Simply put as a matter of historical record the physics theory was well known way before the Atomic bomb was built .. The engineering of the Atomic Bomb was the achievement .

As far as that engineering itself was concerned the record shows that many of the physicists were significantly incompetent in that regard as the duly appointed Head of Operations "Major General Lesley R. Grove" and others have commented .


Quote:


ha I wish I could meet you, Id find you such an absurd human being.




So consistently these content poor and emotionally rich comments you type are dominated by reference to irrationality .

You would fare better i submit to look inwards towards the source of the absurdity you are living by .


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.


Edited by cleeen (04/15/08 12:14 AM)


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InvisibleTaharka
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8285575 - 04/15/08 04:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cleeen said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Whats your educational background and profession?



It is irrelevant to the topic .





Uh... not really. Especially if the last exposure you had to "contemporary" physics, besides your own readings, was an undergrad course 20 years ago.

Quote:

But , as you say , taking the "universe" as conscious opens a whole lot of other aspects to consider .. In fact to higher beings or even beings in a different realms to us (the 'watchers' if you like) , the insulting ignorant arrogance of some people would be reason never to open doors to them , and never to engage with them .. a very wise and honorable strategy most surely .




The existence of different realms and higher beings is still out of the bounds of science. You could say they are metaphysical, and untouchable by science as it is today. If that's the best explanation we have for the double-slit experiment, it's not a good explanation at all. And you can't use this experiment to justify the conclusion that there are other universes and higher beings.


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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Taharka]
    #8285757 - 04/15/08 07:12 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Taharka said:
Quote:

cleeen said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Whats your educational background and profession?



It is irrelevant to the topic .





Uh... not really. Especially if the last exposure you had to "contemporary" physics, besides your own readings, was an undergrad course 20 years ago.




"Uh .. not really "

Man thats a pathetic opener .

Drop the dumbass bullshit already .. the electron double slit experiment was conducted as a matter of record 20 plus years ago .. how about you prove the uselessness of your word Ta-Harka , by explaining the sophisticated insights that have been gleamed into the Electron double slit experiment in the last few decades ? .. its a friggen wave form experiment idiot !!

But hey go ahead and prove me wrong if you can .. just a short list of these wonderful insights of science that you believe are worth mentioning .. i bet you have none .

What gets me is how basically misled and ignorant people like you are regarding what you at the same time profess such great knowledge on .. simply worthless

Point is that you cannot argue a point based on your own knowledge or insight because that shelf is empty .. but hey proove me wrong .. just mention a short list of insights that physics has gained over the last couple of decades into the electron double slit experiment ..

Quote:


The existence of different realms and higher beings is still out of the bounds of science. You could say they are metaphysical, and untouchable by science as it is today. If that's the best explanation we have for the double-slit experiment, it's not a good explanation at all. And you can't use this experiment to justify the conclusion that there are other universes and higher beings.




Again this is just bullshit .. its pathetic how screwed up so many of you are in the posts you make .. its like you are pathological liars or something ..

Have you readd up on contemporary theories of interdimensional membranes ?? .. nah of course not cause that is modern inter dimensional physics cosmology isn't it Taharka .. and you are ignorant arent you so thats a silly question ..

How about Dark matter and dark energy Taharka what are they but realms of other dimensions .. i mean are you guys diecommie thecow and taharka all just retatded or are you ignorant or what ?

I just dont get it .. its like discussing things with bowls of shit that think they are gormet dinners ..

not one of you DC TC and Tharka have made a enlightened or educated comment in reply to me yet .. all you can offer is crap .. in fact i think you are so friggen worthless i'm outta here .. i will leave you dip shit pretenders to your own devices .. can't see you overnight turning into anything of substance ..

pathetic .. just friggen pathetic ..


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.


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Invisiblecleeen
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Posts: 383
Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8285778 - 04/15/08 07:25 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Taharka said:
Quote:

cleeen said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Whats your educational background and profession?



It is irrelevant to the topic .





Uh... not really. Especially if the last exposure you had to "contemporary" physics, besides your own readings, was an undergrad course 20 years ago.




"Uh .. not really "

Man thats a pathetic opener .

Drop the dumbass bullshit already .. the electron double slit experiment was conducted as a matter of record 20 plus years ago .. how about you prove the uselessness of your word Ta-Harka , by explaining the sophisticated insights that have been gleamed into the Electron double slit experiment in the last few decades ? .. its a friggen wave form experiment idiot !!

But hey go ahead and prove me wrong if you can .. just a short list of these wonderful insights of science that you believe are worth mentioning .. i bet you have none .

What gets me is how basically misled and ignorant people like you are regarding what you at the same time profess such great knowledge on .. simply worthless

Point is that you cannot argue a point based on your own knowledge or insight because that shelf is empty .. but hey proove me wrong .. just mention a short list of insights that physics has gained over the last couple of decades into the electron double slit experiment ..

Quote:


The existence of different realms and higher beings is still out of the bounds of science. You could say they are metaphysical, and untouchable by science as it is today. If that's the best explanation we have for the double-slit experiment, it's not a good explanation at all. And you can't use this experiment to justify the conclusion that there are other universes and higher beings.




Again this is just bullshit .. its pathetic how screwed up so many of you are in the posts you make .. its like you are pathological liars or something ..

Have you readd up on contemporary theories of interdimensional membranes ?? .. nah of course not cause that is modern inter dimensional physics cosmology isn't it Taharka .. and you are ignorant arent you so thats a silly question ..

How about Dark matter and dark energy Taharka what are they but realms of other dimensions .. i mean are you guys diecommie thecow and taharka all just retatded or are you ignorant or what ?

I just dont get it .. its like discussing things with bowls of shit that think they are gormet dinners ..

not one of you DC TC and Tharka have made a enlightened or educated comment in reply to me yet .. all you can offer is lies and crap .. in fact i think you are so friggen worthless i'm outta here .. i will leave you dip shit pretenders to your own devices .. can't see you overnight turning into anything of substance ..

pathetic .. just friggen pathetic ..

Excuse me while i go loose my password and get the fuck outta here so the low-lifes can go on praising eachothers pretense with out my continual objection .


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8286224 - 04/15/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Alright let me just crack my Newtonian physics book open here, hmm interesting stuff it is, *searches for anything about magnetic fields or electricity*, hm not seeing it yet, oh but maybe you have that 'secret' Newtonian book. The one where Newton developed Maxwells equations then forgot to release them publicly. So first off your argument is wrong, as to quantum physics:

The whole point of the accelerator is for particle physics, there is no other point. Scientisits didnt just decide one day itd be cool to slam shit into other shit for no reason. And guess how scientists explain what happens when shit slams into other shit? Oh I know you know the answer good sir, but just take a minute:

Thats right, the standard model. What is the standard model? Why my good chap, it is a Quantum Field Theory. And go on, just guess how accurate the standard model is, wont guess? Well it has been shown to be extremely accurate at prediction, though it will get a good testing pretty soon when the new collider comes online. There are some problems with it such as the number of constants placed into it, but my point being, you cannot even begin to hope to begin to fucking explain particles interactions with Newtonian physics.

As to your argument that the atom bomb was simply an engineering feat, this is not accurate. I am an electrical engineer so believe me I like engineering, but we cannot take credit for the atom bomb. Sure there was a lot of engineering involved, but there was also a lot of physics.


"
Having begun to wrest control of the uranium research from the National Bureau of Standards, the project heads began to accelerate the bomb project under the OSRD. Arthur Compton organized the University of Chicago Metallurgical Laboratory in early 1942 to study plutonium and fission piles (primitive nuclear reactors), and asked theoretical physicist Robert Oppenheimer of the University of California, Berkeley to take over research on fast neutron calculations—key to calculations about critical mass and weapon detonation—from Gregory Breit. John Manley, a physicist at the Metallurgical Laboratory, was assigned to help Oppenheimer find answers by coordinating and contacting several experimental physics groups scattered across the country.

During the spring of 1942, Oppenheimer and Robert Serber of the University of Illinois worked on the problems of neutron diffusion (how neutrons moved in the chain reaction) and hydrodynamics (how the explosion produced by the chain reaction might behave). To review this work and the general theory of fission reactions, Oppenheimer convened a summer study at the University of California, Berkeley, in June 1942. Theorists Hans Bethe, John Van Vleck, Edward Teller, Felix Bloch, Emil Konopinski, Robert Serber, Stanley S. Frankel, and Eldred C. Nelson (the latter three all former students of Oppenheimer) quickly confirmed that a fission bomb was feasible. There were still many unknown factors in the development of a nuclear bomb, however, even though it was considered to be theoretically possible. The properties of pure uranium-235 were still relatively unknown, as were the properties of plutonium, a new element which had only been discovered in February 1941 by Glenn Seaborg and his team. Plutonium was the product of uranium-238 absorbing a neutron which had been emitted from a fissioning uranium-235 atom, and was thus able to be created in a nuclear reactor. But at this point no reactor had yet been built, so while plutonium was being pursued as an additional fissile substance, it was not yet to be relied upon. Only microgram quantities of plutonium existed at the time (produced from neutrons derived from reaction started in a cyclotron).
A number of the different fission bomb assembly methods explored during the summer 1942 conference, later reproduced as drawings in The Los Alamos Primer. In the end, only the "gun" method (at top) and a more complicated variation of the "implosion" design would be used. At the bottom are "autocatalytic method" designs.
A number of the different fission bomb assembly methods explored during the summer 1942 conference, later reproduced as drawings in The Los Alamos Primer. In the end, only the "gun" method (at top) and a more complicated variation of the "implosion" design would be used. At the bottom are "autocatalytic method" designs.

The scientists at the Berkeley conference determined that there were many possible ways of arranging the fissile material into a critical mass, the simplest being the shooting of a "cylindrical plug" into a sphere of "active material" with a "tamper"—dense material which would focus neutrons inward and keep the reacting mass together to increase its efficiency (this model "avoids fancy shapes", Serber would later write).[5] They also explored designs involving spheroids, a primitive form of "implosion" (suggested by Richard C. Tolman), and explored the speculative possibility of "autocatalytic methods" which would increase the efficiency of the bomb as it exploded.

Considering the idea of the fission bomb theoretically settled until more experimental data were available, the conference then turned in a different direction. Hungarian physicist Edward Teller pushed for discussion on an even more powerful bomb: the "Super", which would use the explosive force of a detonating fission bomb to ignite a fusion reaction in deuterium and tritium. This concept was based on studies of energy production in stars made by Hans Bethe before the war, and suggested as a possibility to Teller by Enrico Fermi not long before the conference. When the detonation wave from the fission bomb moved through the mixture of deuterium and tritium nuclei, these would fuse together to produce much more energy than fission could. But Bethe was skeptical. As Teller pushed hard for his "superbomb"—now usually referred to as a "hydrogen bomb"—proposing scheme after scheme, Bethe refuted each one. The fusion idea had to be put aside in order to concentrate on actually producing fission bombs."


There still were physics problems that had to be answered, now dont get me wrong. As an engineer I know that high level engineering research can also be classified as physics research. The lines blur a bit, though engineering research usually has an end goal in mind and is not just concerned about finding out random information because it has the possibility of advancing science. This is a silly argument however, and Im quite done with it


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InvisibleTaharka
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
    #8286620 - 04/15/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You're the one arrogant enough to belittle others and make claims based on "special" knowledge. So were exactly did you learn more about physics than everyone else?

Enlightened and educated ftw. Stuff your metaphysical bullshit up your ass.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Taharka]
    #8287348 - 04/15/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Taharka said:
You're the one arrogant enough to belittle others and make claims based on "special" knowledge. So were exactly did you learn more about physics than everyone else?

Enlightened and educated ftw. Stuff your metaphysical bullshit up your ass.




I agree that this is irrelevant. His background or education doesn't effect the validity or logic of his claims.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: johnm214]
    #8287388 - 04/15/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry you've stumbled into the wrong forum. If you are going to make a claim about the nature of reality (science) you better damn well know science.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: TheCow]
    #8287709 - 04/15/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I do know science, but what I know, or what cleen knows, isn't the issue. The issue is the validity of the claims. Science is observation and extrapolation, not an oligarchy w/ decrees by educated men.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: johnm214]
    #8287758 - 04/15/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

True, but cleeen has shown himself to be unaware of science, he argues things by claiming that points of science are irrational, or that they make no sense to him logically. If he understood science he could make a case for why things are wrong in terms that make sense. His present approach is just to write lengthy paragraphs saying how wrong we all are without any basis.

Like the double slit experiment. He just said, yes theres a pattern there. He looks at one video and decides that quantum is wrong because some points appear to line up, (even though as I pointed out to him they might not lie on the same line at all). He just makes claims and wont back them up with any further investigation. Did he look at other similar experiments? apparently no. Did he investigate his claim that there is some underlying geometrical explanation? Nope. I picture him living somewhere in a basement in Queens sipping on a plastic carton of old McGregor's fine style country scotch beating a drum very softly while typing with the other hand


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: TheCow]
    #8287802 - 04/15/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

well my statement shouldn't be construed as a defense of cleen's logic, it does strike me as an ad hoc analysis, and he certainly doesn't have persuasive evidence for his positions.

Just a pet peave of mine when pseudoscientist, not you- talking about laymen or whatnot, adopt stupid positions and claim its supported by some guy, but won't defend the position on its merits, instead appealing to the authority of some jackass. They give idiots phd's too (see: sociology)


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: johnm214]
    #8287819 - 04/15/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think its funny how he talked shit about my undergraduate eduaction and experience, then when I inquired about his he replied ...

Quote:

It is irrelevant to the topic .




:ilold:


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