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OfflineSoulSuuckinJERK
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How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm)
    #8163846 - 03/18/08 08:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Note: I can't take credit for this, because I read about a lot of theoretical concepts. It may be out there somewhere, but I figured if I summarize the information in my noggin and post it on here, it may be worth of discussion. What do you think?

Been around a while...i need to participate more often!

How to: Life on Mars


Water does not flow freely on mars, however there is certainty that water once did. The atmosphere of mars vanished for an unknown reason, and lost its water. Theoretically, if water is introduced on the surface of mars it will either freeze or evaporate since there is no atmosphere. However it is widely believed that there are vast amounts of water beneath the surface of both poles.

How can we warm this planet and provide it an atmosphere which is life sustainable?

The first problem one must address when trying to rejuvenate mars with life and water is the lack of atmosphere. If humans had the capability to produce atmospheric gases upon mars, it may give the atmosphere the necessary ingredients to sustain life. Factories, garbage, and automobiles all pollute the earth’s atmosphere with ‘greenhouse gases’. Greenhouse gases heath the earth by increasing the reflective powers of earth’s atmosphere, and retaining heat close to the surface. If it were possible to create these greenhouse gases on the surface it may cause the surface of mars to heat. This heating may melt the water which is just below the surface, and since an atmosphere has been created by a greenhouse gas, it won’t freeze or evaporate. It would take hundreds, if not thousands or more years to create a suitable atmosphere.

How does this stimulate life?


On earth we know of tiny bacteria and microscopic organisms which lay in a state of suspension until water is introduced. Some of these organisms can lay dormant for extremely long periods of time. It can be assumed that the Martian soil contains such characteristics. If this is a correct assumption, given millions of years, the organisms may evolve. Given millions of years, they could evolve into complex beings with the ability to reason (if earth doesn’t annex it first).

Conclusion


This would be an extremely lengthy process which would outlast any generation of people alive today. There would also be huge obstacles to overcome, however, logic would say this is possible, though it may not be probable in the predictable future. However, history has shown us that many of the ideas which were once thought ‘crazy’ or ‘impossible’ have been integrated in our daily lives.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: SoulSuuckinJERK]
    #8165022 - 03/19/08 12:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, I like when people "think" about shit like this.

Not to be rude, but this is like 2 minutes worth of thinking. It's just a little lame that's all.

Even if there are organisms waiting to be "awoken", it would take millions of years of progress to have anything that would support multicellular organisms.

Let's see this thing get more indepth :thumbup:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8165060 - 03/19/08 12:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Dude whatever, its the subject matter that is cool.

I think the idea of life possibly being stimulated on Mars has a pretty good scientific basis, and I wouldn't even be surprised if its possible. I think that a long time ago, maybe say, a billion years, its totally possible that there could have been life on Mars. There is a good chance that it once did have an atmosphere, and over time it slowly lost it due its small size and gases getting trapped in rocks, ice, etc. The planet was probably warmer back then too. So if the planet once supported life, why couldn't it again given the proper conditions? I think it would take a lot of human intervention but it could work. I doubt we would release our own gasses on the planet, but probably draw from the resources of Mars itself. Melt the polar ice caps, bring gases up from beneath the surface. What needs to happen is the creation of some kind of weather cycle, such as the carbon cycle on Earth, or the methane cycle on Titan.

If and when we begin to build settlements on Mars, I imagine we'll try to an encourage a process like this. Living in biodomes would probably get to costly and inefficient for long term colonies.


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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #8165148 - 03/19/08 01:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, all I'm saying is that this is an already covered topic. It is very nteresting, but I believe just in the past two years some scientist wrote a book about this in good detail.

If you wanna talk about exactly how this can be done, let's toss some ideas around, sounds fun. Your original post was kind of lacking, thats all. It would have been better if it was "original" or if you asked about how we would exactly accomplish this daunting task.

There's a cool thread I found about Paul Stamets that talks about introducing mushies to help foster an ecosystem on another planet. Here it is:http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1084349#Post1084349


Check it out. It's way cool. Watch the video someone links to as well. It's anice conference in Amsterdam on our favorite fungi, the psilocybe.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflineLegend9123
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: SoulSuuckinJERK]
    #8165368 - 03/19/08 02:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The process is called terraforming and there are websites abound about it. I even wrote a paper on it myself if I can dig it up I will post it.


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Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither.
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OfflineSoulSuuckinJERK
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: SoulSuuckinJERK]
    #8166011 - 03/19/08 10:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I did a little more research...the atmosphere of mars was thought to be lost because both poles of the planet lost their magnetic charge. Overcoming a weak magnetic charge would have to be another obstacle tackled....hmmm?

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: SoulSuuckinJERK]
    #8166657 - 03/19/08 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm...well it makes sense that Mars would have a much smaller magnetic field than Earth because its got a smaller lithosphere and core. I didn't realize that played a roll in retaining an atmosphere though. Thats interesting. I don't think there is much we could do to correct this problem, short of maybe detonating nuclear bombs beneath the surface to heat the planet up.


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8166738 - 03/19/08 01:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dill705 said:
Wow, I like when people "think" about shit like this.

Not to be rude, but this is like 2 minutes worth of thinking. It's just a little lame that's all.

Even if there are organisms waiting to be "awoken", it would take millions of years of progress to have anything that would support multicellular organisms.

Let's see this thing get more indepth :thumbup:





Whats lame is you critizing people for thinking. :thumbdown:


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: snoot]
    #8166893 - 03/19/08 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Watch the history channel. There's this show called the Universe, they dedicated a whole hour to this planet. They talked about all this stuff. I'll youtube it later.

I didn't mean to be rude, I didn't see the brainstorming part.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinesnoot
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8167046 - 03/19/08 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I dig that show. Filipenko is fun to listen to.


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: snoot]
    #8167257 - 03/19/08 03:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I like the black guy too.

That's the only reason I said anything, I've seen the Mars show like 4 times. I know all about the ptoentially life-bearing ice and all that jazz. I guess the title just mislead me.

I thought this was gonna be a tek with pictures and everything!!! :tongue:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Offlinesnoot
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8168816 - 03/19/08 07:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

brian greene is fun to listen to , too :boobs:


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Offlineminesstudent
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: SoulSuuckinJERK]
    #8174566 - 03/21/08 12:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I've read that Mars doesn't have an atmosphere because it doesn't have enough gravity to hold it.

Edit: yeah if you google search "mars atmosphere gravity" it gives you many good sources on this.


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"The universe is the way it is because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here to talk about it"

Edited by minesstudent (03/21/08 03:45 AM)

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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: minesstudent]
    #8174633 - 03/21/08 12:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

ya, the lack of magnetic poles on mars is a big problem that i don't know how we'll overcome.

But, i really thing its possible to start the terraforming now. There is some atmosphere on mars. Not much, but its there. And we have lots of ways to manipulate bacteria and such. We should start a project aimed at modifying a bacteria that could live on mars.

Unfortunately i'm not a professional in either terraformation or bacterial engineering, but it doesn't seem like such a leap. Perhaps it could even consume ice on the poles, or CO2 in the atmosphere or from the soil and put out O2.

Perhaps a plant hybrid that could gain some energy from the light that mars gets, it doesn't get as much as us, but it still gets a lot.

Anyway, i agree with carl sagan. We need to be a two planet species. Its unacceptable that we're fat and happy on this one planet. It places to many eggs in one basket. As soon as the technology is available, we should begin early stages of reforming mars to our liking.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Invisibletak
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8175176 - 03/21/08 09:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have never really had any thought about mars at all....but last night i had a dream that I was sent there to see if it was capable of supporting life, and it was. there were tree's there.


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OfflineC_T
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: tak]
    #8190895 - 03/25/08 10:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think we need to heat up the core, to re-gain the magnetic polar. This is what protects the atmosphere from all the particals of outter space (ie radiation).

Without this, even if its warm, its still no good for humans.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: C_T]
    #8191187 - 03/25/08 11:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What would we do, drill and nuke it?

Then the volcanoes would have radiactive lava, and eventually the core would cool down, like it did in the past.

Why, does Earth's core not cool?

My theory is that Earth is denser than Mars and/or we have some heat retaining layer around the core that Mars doesn't.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8195082 - 03/26/08 02:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Earth is warmer than mars for the same reason a small potato will cool off faster than a large potato. A smaller spherical body has a higher surface area to volume ratio, therefore it can dissipate its heat faster. There is also more radioactive material in Earth's core to keep it hot.

The only way to reheat the interior of Mars would be to increase the amount of radiation beneath the surface. Thats the only way internal heat is generated in a planet.

I've taken several planetary science classes in college so i've learned this stuff. :thumbup:


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Offlinedill705
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #8195573 - 03/26/08 07:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So, we'd have to put a bunch of radiactive material deep below the surface, that have long half-lives?

Sounds fun.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Invisiblesherm
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Re: How to: Life on Mars (a brainstorm) [Re: dill705]
    #8195889 - 03/26/08 10:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

a giant microwave


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