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Offlinestcore
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Best PF cake substrate ingredients?
    #816181 - 08/13/02 10:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What's the deal? Why isn't there a consensus on the best formula for a cake substrates? I don't want to spend time figuring this stuff out.

For example, if rye berries work better than brown rice, use 100% rye berries. Next, if rye berries don't work as well as so-and-so birdseed, use 100% so-and-so birdseed.

What's the point of combining different well-known ingredients? Just find out the best, and use only all that. What gives people?


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: stcore]
    #816188 - 08/13/02 10:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

some people find using rye or birdseed more difficult than the pf tek. they also require a pressure cooker. if i were newb, i would follow the pf tek with a batch of jars then make another batch of pf tek jars and case them. but instead of using brown rice flour, i would use dark rye flour because it will produce more potent shrooms. good luck.

edit: also you said for cakes which means rye berries and birdseed are out of the question because they are used as substrate for casings and it will not fruit easily without a casing layer.


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Edited by Eightball (08/13/02 10:10 PM)


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Offlinestwangetweezer
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: Eightball]
    #816225 - 08/13/02 10:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If i was using rye flour instead of BRF would i have to pressure cook more then 45 mins like say an hour and a half or would it be ok to pressure cook at 45 min.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: stwangetweezer]
    #816341 - 08/13/02 11:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I believe you handle rye flour the same way you would BRF.


--------------------
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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: Eightball]
    #7735473 - 12/09/07 04:53 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

needing a casing layer for fuiting is a complete myth, it is benificial but not necassary, just wanted to clarify that in case someone who doesnt know came across this like my buddy did and it screwed him all up. thats what the dunk and roll is anyhow man. pseudo casing layer.


--------------------
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OfflineNibin
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: lostinautumn7]
    #7735585 - 12/09/07 08:35 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lostinautumn7 said:
needing a casing layer for fuiting is a complete myth, it is benificial but not necassary, just wanted to clarify that in case someone who doesnt know came across this like my buddy did and it screwed him all up. thats what the dunk and roll is anyhow man. pseudo casing layer.




For PF cakes that is true, the same applies to poo, but uncased grain rarely fruits. With grain on it's own you need a casing layer.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #7735588 - 12/09/07 08:36 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mickey_rourke said:
I believe you handle rye flour the same way you would BRF.




NO, you can just plain boil brf cakes but any other grain flour needs a pc.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: stcore]
    #7735662 - 12/09/07 10:10 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stcore said:

What's the point of combining different well-known ingredients? Just find out the best, and use only all that. What gives people?




You might think a T-bone steak is the best food, but try to survive on nothing but T-bone steaks. Mycelium, like humans, benefits from a balanced diet, and that means food from various sources. We're not so much trying to match nature, but to improve on it. You'll find a cow patty in a field with two or three mushrooms on it, but you'll find a cultivated tray with a hundred or more mushrooms on it.

If you want different ingredients to try, you can use rice bran instead of brf, and it will improve performance. You can substitute coffee grinds for all or part of the vermiculite. If growing wood loving species, you can substitute sawdust for all or part of the vermiculite. Experiment.
RR


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7735869 - 12/09/07 11:39 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I've wondered about adding lime to my cake mix. Wouldn't it help balance the acidity, as it does in casings? Have you ever tried that RR?


--------------------
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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7735936 - 12/09/07 12:04 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

You don't want lime in a cake. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic substrate, and BRF is already close to neutral, as is verm. Adding lime would degrade performance by raising pH.
RR


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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7735970 - 12/09/07 12:18 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think the pf substrate really needs to be Ph balanced, unless you are adding something outside of the original mix, like coffee that is more acidic. Still, not really necessary, mushrooms even tend to like a slightly acidic substrate. Plus RR is the guy who grew on straight coffee grounds, and I don't know for sure but I don't even think he added any Ph buffers, you will never be able to touch that level of acidity. Mushrooms still did fine. In regards to maximizing yield, there are a ton of other additives that you should consider for this mix before lime.


--------------------
"May your mycelia multiply and be fruitful."

          - oxohawkoxo

the shroomery is  one hell of a community, lots of good people here, and i am damn proud to be a part of it. thanks shroomery and all shroomerites. :heart:       
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OfflineGoatfish
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7735975 - 12/09/07 12:20 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Coffee and BRF does work well. I also noticed the colonization time decreased for me when I used this combination.


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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7735984 - 12/09/07 12:22 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You don't want lime in a cake.  Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic substrate, and BRF is already close to neutral, as is verm.  Adding lime would degrade performance by raising pH.
RR




wow, that post wasnt there when i started replying. you are too quick for me RR. as always  :bow:


--------------------
"May your mycelia multiply and be fruitful."

          - oxohawkoxo

the shroomery is  one hell of a community, lots of good people here, and i am damn proud to be a part of it. thanks shroomery and all shroomerites. :heart:       
                            - lostinautumn7


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OfflineAncientBeing
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7736122 - 12/09/07 01:00 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You don't want lime in a cake. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic substrate, and BRF is already close to neutral, as is verm. Adding lime would degrade performance by raising pH.
RR




But don't you use a pinch of lime per cup of rye?


--------------------
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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7736141 - 12/09/07 01:05 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AncientBeing said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You don't want lime in a cake. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic substrate, and BRF is already close to neutral, as is verm. Adding lime would degrade performance by raising pH.
RR




But don't you use a pinch of lime per cup of rye?




yes, but as we already covered above, grains are not ideal for cakes. so why would you use rye for a cake? unless of course you didnt read the whole thread.....or you are extremely stubborn.


--------------------
"May your mycelia multiply and be fruitful."

          - oxohawkoxo

the shroomery is  one hell of a community, lots of good people here, and i am damn proud to be a part of it. thanks shroomery and all shroomerites. :heart:       
                            - lostinautumn7


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OfflineAncientBeing
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: lostinautumn7]
    #7736192 - 12/09/07 01:19 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Ah, I was just confused by what a 'cake' was. I thought colonized grain was referred to as cakes but I read up so now I know.


--------------------
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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7736442 - 12/09/07 02:35 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I was just curious. That being the case, what's the point in buffering casing mix?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Invisiblelostinautumn7
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7736596 - 12/09/07 03:11 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

the higher Ph in the casing mix is just an extra deterrent for contams. the mean green doesn't like alkaline, and when casing the mycelium is already very strong from colonizing the substrate, so it doesn't mind colonizing a little bit of non nutritious, alkaline, casing mix so it can make some nice healthy mushies for you. :grin:

there could also be another reason but from what i understand that is the main reason we do it.


--------------------
"May your mycelia multiply and be fruitful."

          - oxohawkoxo

the shroomery is  one hell of a community, lots of good people here, and i am damn proud to be a part of it. thanks shroomery and all shroomerites. :heart:       
                            - lostinautumn7


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Offlineewikk055
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: lostinautumn7]
    #7737752 - 12/09/07 08:41 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

RR, what ways do you add coffee grounds to substrates, and I'm not trying to be ignorant to the search bar, I've been trying to find good information about coffee additives to a brf substrate and yet have not been able to find one.

I plan on trying an experimental substrate (at least I think it is) of brf, miracle grow, and possibly coffee grounds.

any pointers RR?


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OfflineMolasses
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Re: Best PF cake substrate ingredients? [Re: ewikk055]
    #7737985 - 12/09/07 09:50 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

So does coffee swap with verm cup for cup? Is fresh coffee ok, cuz i'm not drinking a few gallons of coffee to make some cakes. haha


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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