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InvisibleAsante
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The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ?
    #8161142 - 03/18/08 08:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A youtube vid that really got me thinking. Apparently the model of the sun as being heated by nuclear fusion is not universally accepted.. and there are some problems with the theory.



&NR=1



Just one thing from the 7 minute video: How come the surface of the sun is a mere 6.000 degrees hot, but further from the sun, in the Corona, the heat is several million degrees.

That is not how hot things work. It would be like burning your hand a foot away from your cup of coffee, but not burning your hand when you hold the cup itself.

Has anyone studied the electrical model vs the fusion model and care to enlighten us?


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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Asante]
    #8161198 - 03/18/08 08:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting. I would imagine it runs a little off both. I learn more at the shroomery then I do at school

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Asante]
    #8161205 - 03/18/08 08:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>How come the surface of the sun is a mere 6.000 degrees hot, but further from the sun, in the Corona, the heat is several million degrees.

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0741-3335/42/2/304

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona#Coronal_heating_problem

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Asante]
    #8161996 - 03/18/08 12:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Smells like crackpottery.

They didnt really say anything in the video for me to comment on. They didnt expain anything.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Asante]
    #8162225 - 03/18/08 01:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't know anything about the electric model and I still don't know anything about the electric model. The video only names some unexplained, probably electromagnetic, observed phenomena. And he calls the fusion model "failed" :shocked: I'm open to new theories, but "failed"... anyway, I'll forget that he said that. 

A few questions that come to my mind:
How does the electric model explain all the elements in the universe?
How does it explain the star spectra we observe, showing all stages of stars in the elements it contains? Why do older stars contain heavier elements and why do stars die?
The mass of stars can be accurately measured from the motion of planets, can't we demonstrate that fusion is extremely likely to occur in a ball of so many particles in such a high density?

The fusion modelled didn't fail to explain these observations. It also has a lot to do with electromagnetism and it sure doesn't rule out very strong and weird EM effects in and around it.

The fusion model is a very strong model that can live together with other (new) theories. That it can't explain everything doesn't mean it is completely "wrong".

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Annom]
    #8162319 - 03/18/08 01:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:

A few questions that come to my mind:
How does the electric model explain all the elements in the universe?
How does it explain the star spectra we observe, showing all stages of stars in the elements it contains? Why do older stars contain heavier elements and why do stars die?





This is really the crux of the matter.

Our entire understanding of how we come to live on a planet full of heavy elements in abundance is based on their being formed via fusion inside stars.

I would have to see another explanation for this before I threw out the fusion theory.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8176095 - 03/21/08 02:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

what is the electric model? btw, how the hell has anyone proved that the surface of the sun is only 6ooo degrees? doesn't make sense to me... i never believed that when the temperature of the core is somewhere between 2 and 50 million degrees or some shit, cuz i can't remember. how can anyone believe that a massive ball of fire with streams of fire shooting out of the side that the surface is only 6000 degrees? yeah, it would be electric, but what the hell? it has to be nuclear fusion, what other explanation is possible. I'd read the electrical theory, but weird... i don't know, + the radiation at the surface of the sun is like thousands of times what it was after hiroshima, right?


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Asante]
    #8176759 - 03/21/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

Just one thing from the 7 minute video: How come the surface of the sun is a mere 6.000 degrees hot, but further from the sun, in the Corona, the heat is several million degrees.





How come the core of the earth is thousands of degrees C while the surface is anywhere from -60C to 50C?

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Maverick]
    #8178462 - 03/22/08 12:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah... but what he's saying is that the surface of the sun if 6000, but further away in nearby surrounding space, the temperature is 1 million or something...

that's like the earth being 50 degrees and out in space surrounding our atmosphere it's 900 degrees, doesn't make sense, huh? shit... it's hard for me to believe


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: imachavel]
    #8178637 - 03/22/08 02:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Something is heating up the corona, and that may very well be an electromagnetic effect. But there is no question  that the energy that drives this stems from hydrogen fusion in the heart of the sun. (which in turn is much much hotter than 6000C)

As far as I can tell they give no explanation where all this energy comes from, other than "the Galaxy", which makes me suspect that they are Free Energy nuts - I mean proponents.

Perhaps the concept of "galactic electricity" is to astrophysics what "intelligent design" is to biology.
Come to think of it, free energy does sound a bit like mana from heaven, something for nothing.

All this dissin' of the sungod gets me in the mood to sacrifice a couple of virigns.:evil:

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: koppie]
    #8178640 - 03/22/08 02:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:shocked:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: koppie]
    #8178855 - 03/22/08 06:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #8179704 - 03/22/08 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for the explanation, that is entirely nuts, i still don't see how they can prove the surface temperature of the sun is 6000, did they send a satellite over there and bury it in the sun and before it exploded, let it measure the temperature where it was? then how did it get past the corona, how can they know how hot any of this shit is?

some things i can't understand..


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: imachavel]
    #8183504 - 03/23/08 02:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They look at the light that comes off the surface.

Everything glows. Near room temperature everything glows in far infrared only detectable by special cameras. Around 800C a red glow is visible, growing more yellow and ultimately blue when temperature increases. This is called black body radiation, and there is a simple formula that relates the surface temperature to the wavelength of the brightest emission.

So measuring the light coming off the solar surface (with a telescope and a spectrometer) they find the peak intensity is yellow light with a wavelength of about 550nm. Plug this in the formula and out rolls 6000K.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: koppie]
    #8183769 - 03/23/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'Thunderbolts of the Gods' puts forth a good case, while conventional science keeps changing their theory for why the corona is hotter than the surface.

Their current explanation is SOUND...

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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: imachavel]
    #8185226 - 03/23/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
what is the electric model?...





The "Electric Model of the Universe " is not quite what you might think with a title like that .

Rather its imo better described by being called " the Plasma Electric model of the universe " ..

Essentially there are a relatively limited known number of states of matter .. the Magical 3 has been suggested because of the ubiquity of the triad in science .. Ice Water Vapour .. electrons photons and neutrons .. 3 3 3

So there is AC electricity and DC electricity and charged bodies yet there is clearly a 4th category of Electrical potential that is referred to as Plasma , Static , or "Natural electricity" .

The key to the description is that it is a fluid more organic form of electrical structure that is dynamic and has atttributes of both AC-DC and of polar charge .

Plasma is like the MacroEconomic Quantum nature of charged systems .. they are both Fire and water and in element and are fluid like water but dynamic like fire ..


These charged plasmas are proposed to exist as an underlying structure to Planetary geometry and the distances between them ..
They are also hypothesized to account for the Dark masses of mainstream CNN physics through the vast combined masses of 3d electrical charge



The Plasma Charge is not uniform it is dynamic like fire .. it has local regions of intensity where mass can be solidified as a result of this moving location in space .. quantum science reminds us that our matter form is constantly recreating itself every quantum cycle to remain in the relatively steady state we notice from day to day .

So the location of planets was not the result of random gravitational incidents but there was a balanced organic superstructure to the observable position of planetary mass .

The collision of comet with Jupiter for example was unexpected by Mainstream CNN news science , but predicted by the Electrical model ..


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Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

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Edited by cleeen (03/25/08 07:38 AM)

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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: cleeen]
    #8186025 - 03/24/08 03:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cleeen said:

The collision of comet with Jupiter was unexpected by Mainstream CNN news science , but predicted by the Electrical model ..




Standard celestial mechanics did a fine job at predicting that thank you very much. Why else do you think we had probes and telescopes pointed that way?

The rest of that text reads more like a description of alchemy mixed with SF technobabble than like anything resembling science. (Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in alchemy for it's own sake but I think it more closely resembles art than science) Does anyone have a link with some maths or otherwise hard science in it, I mean an actual description of the model?

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8186453 - 03/24/08 09:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Smells like crackpottery.

They didnt really say anything in the video for me to comment on. They didnt expain anything.




That's always my issue w/ these videos

Whether some scientific claim or conspiracy videos, show the evidence, or at least a detailed theory w/ proposed mechanisms.

At least loose change had some purported scientific assertions that could be investigated.

I just hate when I click on a ten minute video only to see pretty graphics and jackasses talking on and on and on, but with no meat.

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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: The Sun - is it a Fusion furnace or an Electric furnace ? [Re: koppie]
    #8190496 - 03/25/08 07:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koppie said:
Quote:

cleeen said:

The collision of comet with Jupiter was unexpected by Mainstream CNN news science , but predicted by the Electrical model ..




Standard celestial mechanics did a fine job at predicting that thank you very much. Why else do you think we had probes and telescopes pointed that way?





Yep , Newtonian physics done us proud with the Rendezvous
itself . But the point is that The Extremely large flashes of light produced around the moment of impact are better explained and predicted by Electrical discharge ..

If you go to the Site you can observe that impact discussions abound ..


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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