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 likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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 Malted WBS experiment 
#8160025 - 03/17/08 11:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I was watching the History channel this morning there was this hour of Modern Marvels dedicated to beer brewing. I happened to catch a part of the show where they explained the malting process. And like most subjects here, there is a lot of speculation on the subject, but no follow up posting on the results. Now, I'm pretty much a novice compared to most of the old hands on this board, but I figured I would put together a little grow log. Hopefully all goes well and I can make a TEK out of it.
Malting grains is important to brewers because it modifies the starch reserves into nutrients that are more easily consumed by the yeast. In my case it could lead to faster colinization and more efficient utilization of the substrate by the mycelium.(that's what I hope to find out)
From what I understand malting grains (like barley or rye) is fairly simple. You let the grains soak until they germinate, then you dry them, also known as kilning. This was left out of all the posts I read.
Fist of all I'm usining WBS, this could be done better with rye but since WBS is $1.10 per ton I chose to go with that. I'll be rinsing and changing the water every 6-8 hours until the shoots appear to be equal length to the grains(2-3 days). This might prove difficult because I'm using WBS. The different seeds may have different germination times. They will then be dried at 200 degrees in my oven. After that I will steep them in hot but not boiling water until the grains are hydrated(being very careful not to overhydrate because of the shoots), rinse, load up, and PC at 15psi for 1 hour.
I would very much appreciate any additional input on the subject, positive or negative. Either way I'll be posting updates and my results as I go.
Tell me what you think! 
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 tahoe
Noob Slayer
 
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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 Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8161615 - 03/18/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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hah, you beat me to it. I saw it last night and I was thinking also. I didn't want to post it and come across as ignorant 
I found this Malting
Barley is steeped in water then allowed to germinate until roots and shoots start to appear. During germination enzymes are produced which can convert the starch in the barley to fermentable sugars.
The way the program made it sound is that there is more sugar in the kernel once germinated.
What I have found is that it is easier to remove the sugar from the grain once germinated. It doesn't mean that there is more sugar. I think for what we are doing the sugar content and accessibility of it by the mycelium will not change after germination.
I am going to do a sprout jar just for shits and giggles today. I do not think it is going to be better.
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: tahoe]
#8162616 - 03/18/08 03:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like this. Bumping it to get some more opinions.
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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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itsallnines
mush-head
Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 385
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: resptodd]
#8162765 - 03/18/08 03:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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just go to the homebrew shop and buy some malted rye. you can get it whole grain, or milled if you want to do pf style cakes.
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by their fruits ye shall know them.
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: tahoe]
#8163635 - 03/18/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said:
The way the program made it sound is that there is more sugar in the kernel once germinated.
What I have found is that it is easier to remove the sugar from the grain once germinated. It doesn't mean that there is more sugar. I think for what we are doing the sugar content and accessibility of it by the mycelium will not change after germination.
I agree that the program made it seem like germination increased the amount of sugar. From what I understood after reading up on the subject, the starch reserves are broken down by enzymes released durring the germination process. So there shouldn't be more sugar, but the sugars should be easier for the mycelium to digest. I'm hoping this will speed up the colonization time.(*fingers crossed) I have a feeling that if it did speed up colonization time, and easy process like this would already have been discovered and put into practice.
I did come across a post by Agar some time ago(which I can't find now) where he forgot about some seed for few days and it had completely dried out. If I remember correctly he rehydrated, PCed the jars, and they fully colonized quite quickly.
So far I'm finding that rinsing every six hours is making for a cleaner soak. I think I'm going to do this when I soak from now on.(even if germinating the seeds doesn't work)
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: itsallnines]
#8163644 - 03/18/08 07:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
itsallnines said:
just go to the homebrew shop and buy some malted rye. you can get it whole grain, or milled if you want to do pf style cakes.
Just wanted to answer this quick. I'm trying it with WBS to see if it can be done, and because I'm positive that it'll be quite a bit cheaper. Also I live in a dry county, so there are no homebrew shops for miles and miles.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8163701 - 03/18/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
likwid said:
Also I live in a dry county, so there are no homebrew shops for miles and miles.
and to think that its 2008 and we are about to have a black president
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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bryanbzl
Spawn Runner
Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 563
Last seen: 6 years, 25 days
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: tahoe]
#8163904 - 03/18/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Shows how retarded America is getting.
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Cheers,
bzl
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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."
conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: bryanbzl]
#8164492 - 03/18/08 10:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, I'm super interested in what's going on here. I know of a grocery store that sells all kinds of organic grains by the pound, it's where I get my rye. It's called "Jungle Jim's" in Fairfield, Ohio, right north of Cincinnati. I have family down there, so I make the trip down quite often. Next trip I'll take a few extra dimes and get maybe 10-20lbs. What grain berry do you think would be the best to give this a try with? I want to try this because it sounds fun to do, not because I'm expecting any super superior results.
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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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itsallnines
mush-head
Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 385
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: resptodd]
#8168371 - 03/19/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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you can get malted rye and i THINK malted sorghum and malted buckwheat online.
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by their fruits ye shall know them.
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: resptodd]
#8169570 - 03/19/08 10:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What grain berry do you think would be the best to give this a try with?
I'm guessing rye would be a safe bet to start with. I would have tried this with rye, but I've never heard of malted WBS.(lol)
Quote:
you can get malted rye and i THINK malted sorghum and malted buckwheat online.
I did check on prices of malted rye. It runs about $2 per pound, while WBS costs me $2.50 per 10 pounds. If I can successfully malt it and it has a positive effect on colonization time then I have myself a super cheap superior substrate.
BTW, I'll be transferring an isolate on agar so I will not have to wait for spores to germinate as well as grains, haha.
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psilociety
free to be
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 53
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8169605 - 03/19/08 10:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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even if mycelium grows a tad bit faster, you'll still have to wait for the seeds to germinate. i guess im into happy mycelium over increased time.
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: psilociety]
#8169735 - 03/19/08 10:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilociety said:
even if mycelium grows a tad bit faster, you'll still have to wait for the seeds to germinate. i guess im into happy mycelium over increased time.
I could also malt an entire bag and store the malted WBS after it is roasted/kilned/dried. That way I could just grab some malted WBS from storage, steep, rinse, jar, and PC--not having to worry about soaking.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8171150 - 03/20/08 10:14 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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It's all in the fun of experimenting. Do something new, being able to pull it off, it's all cool.
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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8177359 - 03/21/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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OK, another update to this little experiment. Let me note for the record that one should use a containter for soaking that has an airtight lid. No matter how many times you rinse the smell of bacteria buildup is high enough to make you want to chuck your lunch.(and I by no means have a weak stomach)
It has been almost four days, and according to online sources germination for most of the seed in WBS is around the seven day mark. I'm going to try putting plastic wrap over the top of my container so I can use my upstairs bathroom without getting sick.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8177397 - 03/21/08 08:21 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Are you germinating or growing bacteria?
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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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likwid
Student of theArts
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 107
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: resptodd]
#8177490 - 03/21/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Lol, the bacteria that starts to grow when you soak WBS doesn't slow down at all. It gets much worse each passing day. I've been rinsing as often as possible but the only way to be rid of it would be to PC... I don't want to do that until the WBS germinates and I dry and re-soak.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8177562 - 03/21/08 09:08 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Yeah, I follow. But it doesn't take but 2 days for some of those seeds to germ. Are any of them germinating?
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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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itsallnines
mush-head
Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 385
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: likwid]
#8178012 - 03/21/08 10:34 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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i hear ya. $2 seems high to me, but i know i was paying over a dollar a pound. however, malting shit is a pain in the ass. maybe i'll go get some malted rye from the homebrew shop and give it a whirl.
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by their fruits ye shall know them.
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Malted WBS experiment [Re: itsallnines]
#8178533 - 03/22/08 01:17 AM (16 years, 28 days ago) |
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WBS is already to sweet to be an optimal substrate. You wouldn't want to sweeten it more. Myc eats starch just fine. You don't want a bunch of starch and sugars in your substrate. It will just contaminate that much easier. That's already the problem with WBS. The other problem is that it's too compact and unshakable. That will only get worse if you have a bunch of mushy sprouts in there.
Plenty of people have let their grains germinate and found that it doesn't work well.
-FF
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