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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Chemy]
#8166100 - 03/19/08 11:01 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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It should be held to strict scrutiny,otherwise gun owners might actually end up worse. What part of shall not be infringed is so hard to understand.
If shall not be infringed somehow means "reasonable restrictions" are ok, what will reasonable restrictions mean in 50yrs? Probably take less than that.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: buckwheat]
#8166141 - 03/19/08 11:13 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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there's no such thing as reasonable restriction
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: buckwheat]
#8166314 - 03/19/08 11:58 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
buckwheat said: If shall not be infringed somehow means "reasonable restrictions" are ok, what will reasonable restrictions mean in 50yrs? Probably take less than that.
Of course there will be regulations and reasonable restrictions on gun ownership. Free speech is a right, yet there are clear instances in which it is regulated (copyrights, slander, etc. etc. etc.).
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: fireworks_god]
#8166958 - 03/19/08 02:31 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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I dont think you get it.
Our founding fathers GAVE us free speach so we COULD voice our opionon about our goverment and everything else but now if you say the wrong thing you can be arrested as a suspected terrorst.
Our rights to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
Lets play a thought experiment off of penn and teller
If you gave every women in america a gun, they could choose to keep it or give it back, whatever, say only 50% choose to carry it. Becasue people are generally good more people with guns means more GOOD people with guns, and the balance swings the other way.
Who is going to rob or rape when there is a 50% chance that the women you run across has a gun?
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: punkhardcore92]
#8166978 - 03/19/08 02:34 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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I'm sorry, but you will never have an unimpeded right to bear any arm you want at any time at any place.
If you are not allowed to bring a gun with you on the White House tour, is that unconstitutional?
If airport security stops you from taking a bazooka on an airplane have you been unfairly treated?
Should you be able to buy a tank for personal use?
How about a howitzer?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: punkhardcore92]
#8167154 - 03/19/08 03:10 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
punkhardcore92 said:Our founding fathers GAVE us free speach...
The founding fathers did not give us the right to free speech. The right of free speach, or freedom of expression is inalienable. The founding fathers only recognized it.
Quote:
punkhardcore92 said:but now if you say the wrong thing you can be arrested as a suspected terrorst.
Id love to see a link describing that actually happening if you have it, thx
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8167851 - 03/19/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: I'm sorry, but you will never have an unimpeded right to bear any arm you want at any time at any place.
If you are not allowed to bring a gun with you on the White House tour, is that unconstitutional?
If airport security stops you from taking a bazooka on an airplane have you been unfairly treated?
Should you be able to buy a tank for personal use?
How about a howitzer?
first off, a bazooka is an shoulder-launched missile weapon. not a firearm, 2ndly a howitzer is legal to own if you have a class 3 automatic weapons permit and 3rdly, you can buy tanks, good luck feeding it with diesel and your not going to be able to find any of the munitions requiered for the cannon wich brings me to another point! you can legally own cannons!
SO what if a law abiding citizen has a howitzer and they are transporting it legally and lawfully? Why does that bother you so much? Why shouldn't the common man have acess to whatever firepower they want? Do you honestly belive that having an automatic weapon is going to make you more likely to kill? Thats a pretty horrible train of thought. As for weapons on planes, i dont see what would be wrong with it being dissasembled and in its case, then when you get to the airport it can be checked and tagged and put in the luggage compartment. Not like they just let you sit in your seat with your 30 ot 6, so as a thought experiment if bazooka's were legal, taking it on the plane would go under the same dissasembled and tagged proceedures then whats the risk? Should handguns be allowed on planes?? well the james bond decompression myth has been debunked so i think its safe to say yes to those people who have gotten there CCW by passing the requiered courses.
I THINK YOUR MISSING THE POINT, THAT NO MATTER HOW MANY LAWS YOU PASS REGULATING AND BANNING SHIT, IT ONLY AFFECTS THE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, CRIMINALS WILL OBTAIN ARMS THE SAME WAY THEY DO ALOT OF THIGNS!!! They will break the law :P. Passing these regulations doesnt prevent or hinder crime, its just as easy for a badguy to get ahold of a gun after the law as it was before the law THUS only making it harder for the LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.
Bringing a gun into the whitehouse should be legal if you have a CCW and you passed the requiered courses, it never will be becasue the politicians know that they would be dead. Gun free zones are a joke, they just clear out the law abiding citizens with guns to make it an easy killing spree for the badguys.
Every mass shooting in the past 15 years have occured in gun free zones.
and as for people getting arrested as terrorists for free speech
under the sedation act of 1798 you can be arrested for speaking against your goverment
"Congress and President John Adams believed that the Sedition Act would help control pro-French troublemakers by forbidding criticism of the federal government. "Sedition" generally means the incitement of violent revolution against the government. The Sedition Act of 1798, however, went far beyond this. It required criminal penalties for persons who said or published anything "false, scandalous, or malicious" against the federal government, Congress or the president."
http://www.crf-usa.org/terror/clear_present.htm
free speech is a huge threat to our goverment http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html
With the patriot act they can do whatever they want, if your speaking out against your goverment, they will do an investigation on you, the president has the executive power now to arrest you without any due process, trial, and hold you indefinitly.
BUt here is an interesting article about someone getting arrested for speaking out against the goverment under the patriot act.
http://www.jail4judges.org/JHS_Library/2006/JHS%202006-02-08.html
BUt yeah, our founding fathers never intended us to have standing armies, they belived standing armies were only used to spread imperialism WICH They are, in THEIR america the united states citizens defended themselves by being their own force, so in a land where a standing army doesnt exist it would seem as if the american people should have acess to army grade weapons to defend their country (once again i state because in this version of american their wouldnt be a standing army) Maybe then you'd feel diffrently about guns and who gets them. A country where only the goverment has guns seems to me like a big fuckin problem.
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
Edited by punkhardcore92 (03/19/08 09:15 PM)
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: DieCommie]
#8167980 - 03/19/08 05:16 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
punkhardcore92 said:Our founding fathers GAVE us free speach...
The founding fathers did not give us the right to free speech. The right of free speach, or freedom of expression is inalienable. The founding fathers only recognized it.
Quote:
punkhardcore92 said:but now if you say the wrong thing you can be arrested as a suspected terrorst.
Id love to see a link describing that actually happening if you have it, thx
So yeah once again here is that link
http://www.jail4judges.org/JHS_Library/2006/JHS%202006-02-08.html
here is another one
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/08/01/blogger-arrested-told-to-quit-blogging-or-go-to-prison/
Oh and how about this one!
http://www.newsnet14.com/2007/10/13/interview-with-jeff-lodor-arrested-for-being-white-and-speaking-out/
yeah THOUSANDS of americans have been arrested for speaking out against our goverment and im not talking about people out on the streets protesting blocking traffic or being busted for infractions that you CAN be arrested for.. jerk.
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
Edited by punkhardcore92 (03/19/08 05:26 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8169454 - 03/19/08 09:55 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Should you be able to buy a tank for personal use?
How about a howitzer?
yes and yes, had a friend that was arrested as a felon in possession of a firearm, the warrant read howitzer and the location described was 'in the closet'. turns out it was a mauser
but yes, if the army has it, I should be able to buy it to make sure my government is purchasing quality products
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! *DELETED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8169481 - 03/19/08 09:59 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Chemy]
#8169502 - 03/19/08 10:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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I just think that we should have a very well armed populous not a well armed goverment, the goverment should fear its people and DAMMIT CHEMY WHY IS YOUR AVATAR COOLER THAN MINE!!! everytime you post i spend like 5 mins looking at it lol.
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
Edited by punkhardcore92 (03/19/08 10:03 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Chemy]
#8169861 - 03/19/08 11:20 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said: Well technically you can buy a tank.
everything is for sale, my former boss had a mobile surface to air missle launcher and shitloads of other stuff from military auctions, most of the shit is decommissioned like the frames on the humvee is cut, you just have to reweld and assemble it
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8170011 - 03/19/08 11:53 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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its true! you can buy an ar-15 lower reciever for 250$ from olympic firearms then buy a decommissioned M-16 and take the parts out of that (like the 3 shot burst mechanism and the slotted saftey that works with it) to make a fully functioning m-16
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
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Psychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl
Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 20,917
Loc: all up in ya
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Chemy]
#8170102 - 03/20/08 12:10 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
Psychoslut said:
Quote:
Chemy said:
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DieCommie said:
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ExplosiveMango said: How can this rate be improved for the US?
Easy... end prohibition, fortify the border, life in prison for violent crimes, no prison for non-violent crimes.
wow you guys are stupid fucks. let everyone smoke pot and the world will be peacefull for all of eternity, ill believe that when Rosie O'Donnell's pussy doesn't smell like 60 day old salmon.
What? What an stupid remark.
This is the gun rights thread, but you don't have the comprehension skills to understand what the whole thread said
Here let me be the translator for this guy, Americans want (shooty shooty) or (bang bang) so bad guy no hurt mommy, daddy.
Mommy want bang bang so hamburglar no come in home and beat up mommy until mommy give purse to hamburglar.
Mommy want bang bang so monster no rape mommy.
Uhhh, now I have to explain rape, oh man. Rape is when monster give mommy bad hug, a bad hug that hurt mommy bad, so mommy should have bang bang so that will never happen to mommy.
Done.
Do not pretend to know why I believe in the right to own a firearm. Nobody I know has ever been raped. Hell I dont even know anyone who has had there house broken into. Ive only had a reason to carry a pistol on me a handfull of times. And yet me and my extended family own enough guns and ammunition to take over most third world countries. Why because I can, and owning these weapons ensures me that my children will live to have the same rights as I did.
-------------------- [quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Psychoslut]
#8170332 - 03/20/08 01:47 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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BRAVO! Its true, guns really arnt there to protect people from burglary and rape, its to protect our rights from the goverment taking them away, they do a great job at slowly whittling away at them.
Who's going to protect you from the goverment?
In case of the "upcomming fire" as so many southerns have termed it, id suggest hooking up with a local militia, they really arnt extremists and radicals like the media portrays them, they are more like people who REALLY understand the constitution so being as the media would rather talk about britney spears than your civil liberties, should you really trust the media as your source of news? in order to have an informed democracy we must have a non-biased nonpartisan media wich doesnt happend. CNN FOX and ABC are owned by rupert murdock, in these corporations their are things that they are told to report on and not to report on, not like a fax is sent out everyday with a list of rules, but there are generalilites like the embedded troops are not allowed to talk about.
But yeah its a good time to live in michigan, it has the largest armed forces 2nd only to the united states army, we refer to them as the michigan militia, of course one lone wolf goes out and blows up a building in oklahoma city and suddenly the michigan militia is disbanded into several divisions becasue of bad press, the press didn't mention that mcveigh was NOT a member of the milita though he did show up to a few meetings, he grew frustrated because of the ammount of talk and lack of actions. I dont think he realized the militia isnt out LOOKING for trouble, they are just willing to go on the defensive at a moments notice to protect the michigan populus from tyranny.
Its actually quite fascinating to read about, also ties into the illegal federal income tax and the massive banking conspiracy of how the federal reserve is made out of private banks who literally hijacked the american's people gold, fort knox is a slight of hand, after the 94 terrorist attack on the trade center a great mass of the gold owned by the federal reserve (made up of private banks) was moved to a new location.
YOu have the northern chapter the southwestern chapter and the south eastern chapter who really doesnt consist of anyone but the monroe county minuet men
But yeah
Who else is going to protect your civil liberties?
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
Edited by punkhardcore92 (03/20/08 01:49 AM)
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Psychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl
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Posts: 20,917
Loc: all up in ya
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: punkhardcore92]
#8170353 - 03/20/08 02:10 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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You are pretty cool.
9/11 was pretty bad. I cant imagine the horror that would happen if red blooded Americans got pissed off enough to do that kind of shit themselves.
-------------------- [quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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dill705
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Psychoslut]
#8171696 - 03/20/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Yo, punkhardcore. I've been interested in the MI militia for a long tme. I am very keen on the need for citizens to have weapons. It isn't about fighting criminals, it's about the right to revolution and how we should keep that rght sitting very close to us. At least in the closet.
I see both sides of the argument, but as of late realized that I want to have some guns to protect my rights from the government if need be. As I grow older and more things change, I think that need is steadily approaching.
Please hook up some info on the Michgan Militia, I've had trouble finding good stuff.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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punkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: dill705]
#8172053 - 03/20/08 02:06 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Basicly the websites are un-maintained, but i do belive they are getting ready for a spring skirmish and some things like that soon.
but yeah their page is obviously this (i doubt it will be of much help as im sure you've already looked over it). I've emailed a few people from their page and rarely get any replies, with times like these they are very warey about what they say to who they say it too, they do not want to seem like they are going on ANY SORT of offensive, their purpose is SOLEY to defend.
http://www.michiganmilitia.com
-------------------- Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them. Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties. Everything said by me is fiction.
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dill705
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: punkhardcore92]
#8172148 - 03/20/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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I understand the intention of the militia. I'm a pacifist myself. But I do believe in defence of our rights, and without the public having guns, there's no true way to protect our rights. They just keep eroding away...
However, I'll have to try to contact some of these people somehow. I hope I can get a response.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: punkhardcore92]
#8172883 - 03/20/08 05:59 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 03:48 PM)
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