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Invisiblebuckwheat
Cynically Insane


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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8158739 - 03/17/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:


The government has already taken away your rights to heavy arms and automatics,




No they haven't.

btw not one legal automatic weapon has ever been used in a crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU

Edited by buckwheat (03/17/08 07:19 PM)

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Invisiblebuckwheat
Cynically Insane


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: buckwheat]
    #8158778 - 03/17/08 07:18 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

p

Edited by buckwheat (03/17/08 07:19 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8158796 - 03/17/08 07:22 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Just make sure your finger doesn't twitch




I have experience with abnormal situations, as long as
the other guy doesnt do anything to make me twitch then
he'll have nothing to worry about

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: buckwheat]
    #8158809 - 03/17/08 07:24 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Pretty fucking sweet vid, lol.

It's funny, I have a lot of respect for guns as mechanical devices, as an engineer etc.

I guess I just believe one day sometime in the future we may not need them anymore, and I want to keep any progress we may have toward that day.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8158899 - 03/17/08 07:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

It would pretty much require a true police state to get rid of a black market of weapons . And i say weapons because there are alternatives like airguns. If there is demand there will always be guns. The problem is people mistake a lack of demand as gun control working. Not that complicated to make a gun id say it's as easy as making meth.



Worthwhile read on the subject


A world without guns

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: buckwheat]
    #8158953 - 03/17/08 07:56 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Yeah it is very easy to get/make guns.

I actually made a grenade launcher via PVC pipes KNO3 charcoal and sulfur at the age of 13...

But the converse of what you said I feel is also true- 'if there is a demand there will always be guns'

If there is no demand, there will eventually be no guns. Having guns illegal drives down the demand- unlike drugs, guns have a large degree of self perpetuation, if the other guy has a gun you pretty much need a gun to protect yourself. If the other guy is less likely to have a gun you are less likely to need a gun.

(That's why I think we have it better here with guns heavily controlled, and why I think guns should remain legal in the US for the time being.)


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8159117 - 03/17/08 08:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Having guns illegal drives down the demand- unlike drugs





prohibition creates more demand, think about the friend you claims
has one illegally, your grenade launcher, the ones used in all
your crimes in canada... hell look at DC, New York and Chicago

the demand increases, just not all from law abiding citizens

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InvisibleCalifornia
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
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Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8159173 - 03/17/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:

Chemy said:
The US has 5 times the population as Canada?
And I'm not insulting you, I'm merely debating my POV in this matter.




I appreciate that you are being respectful.

The US has around 10 times the population of Canada, about 5 times as much violent crime, and around 25 times more murders. (total figures)

one half the (reported) violent crime per capita, yet 2.5 times the murder rate.



as long as your throwing out numbers and stats...
...how much of that/many of those crimes involved guns?

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: California]
    #8159290 - 03/17/08 09:04 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

The violent crime overall I do not have a stat for how much involves guns, the murders in Canada are 30-35% due to firearms depending where you read, in the US murders are 60-70% due to firearms.

That's an interesting anti-gun article... it seems to reinforce the point that I've made that in all practicality it is too late to make firearms outright illegal in the US. There is already a gun vacuum.




But the big question is- why are we so successful here in Canada with preventing firearm related murder- even in a more violently criminal nation?

Do people think there would be a benefit to Canada to make guns more legally available?

The stats we seem to have going are:

Canada:US

Violent crime per capita-
2:1

Murder rate per capita-
1:2.5

Gun murder rate per murder-
30:60

That is an alarming
((30*1)/2):((60*2.5)/1)
or
15:150
or
1:10

rate of gun murders to violent crimes in Canada vs the US.

Do people think this rate can really be improved for Canada by making firearms more readily available for the law abiding? How can this rate be improved for the US?


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Edited by ExplosiveMango (03/17/08 09:30 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8159493 - 03/17/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/16/16 10:06 AM)

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Posts: 29,258
Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8159503 - 03/17/08 09:52 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
How can this rate be improved for the US?



Easy... end prohibition, fortify the border, life in prison for violent crimes, no prison for non-violent crimes.

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OfflineChemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! *DELETED* [Re: DieCommie]
    #8159571 - 03/17/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: DieCommie]
    #8159647 - 03/17/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
In America we defend your right to express your views, no matter how horrid, and the average citizen will defend your right to say them. We have freedom of speech. In Canada political correctness and the feelings 'oppressed' groups have greater precedence than free speech. Canada does not have free speech.





Sorry man, but that is just complete bull.

Privacy is one of the most important parts of free speech. Your border guards have the right to search any computer system or personal communication system at the border without a warrant. They have the right to completely copy all data files on a laptop without even probably cause.

Canadian lawyers traveling across the border are forced to clear their hard drives because of how little privacy you have.

There is a case that comes to mind, when a middle eastern man said his suitcase might explode- he was not English and he very quickly clarified that it was over-filled with clothing. It took more than 24 hours of 'interrogation' before they felt he knew what he could or could not say well enough.

Quote:

In America economic freedom is preferred and we like to keep as much of our money as possible and spend it how we choose (individualistic).




Economic freedom in what sense? Economic freedom in that you are free to be part of a larger proportion of poorer people? We have the same economic freedoms here in Canada, but if you say... lose your economic edge due to getting jailed for using the wrong drug, you won't become so poor that your doctors will watch you die.

Economic freedom to be too poor to live.

Quote:

In Canada they like to have the government take their money and choose how to spend it for them (communal).




So you support your tax money going toward preventing your drug use?

Quote:

In America the right of an individual to use deadly force to protect his/her life, liberty and property is assumed to be inalienable.




We have the very same right, we simply do not have the need to keep a deadly weapon in every household, because we realize that there is such thing as making it too easy to kill.

Quote:

They are assumed to be inherent and cannot be taken away no matter how good it feels, or how logical it seems. The individual retains that right no matter what the community thinks. In Canada the community trumps the individual and if the community feels bad about burglars getting shot, then the individual losses the right to shot burglars. Its just a difference of culture, and these cultural differences should be respected. I dont very much care for Canadian culture, but you can live your life the way you want. Why should you feel compelled to change our culture? There are already dozens and dozens of Canadian style governments/cultures where the community is favored over the individual, I dont want my country to be one of them.




It's funny that your country does such a good job of fostering the belief that the individual still has any power... how long has your majority wanted to be out of Iraq?

Do you think a referendum would retain the current marijuana laws?

Why do you think only 10% of people vote?

I mean... I know Americans love to love themselves, but don't just go around saying stupid, insulting shit like "we have freedom of speech and you don't". Freedom to speak the loudest and not listen to anyone else is not everyone's definition of free speech.





Why should we feel compelled to change your culture?

There's one world.

That 30% of the wealth that your 5% of the population holds is the same 30% that keeps half the world in poverty.

Edit: And with that 30% of the entire globe's wealth, you don't even have the courtesy to save the lives of your own. If you're an American, you're rich, or you're worthless.

It's sickening how stupid one can get when all he can hear is himself screaming into an echo chamber.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Edited by ExplosiveMango (03/17/08 10:28 PM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8159682 - 03/17/08 10:25 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I wasn't aware that it was possible for me to disagree with one person about so many things.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8159701 - 03/17/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I think you'd find if you ever looked outside your country, you'd find you disagree with about 4.5 billion people about so many things.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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Offlinepunkhardcore92
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8160689 - 03/18/08 04:03 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

WOW this thread is obscene.

First off, Guns kill people the way pencils misspell words. As in they cant.

2ndly, In countries like Australia and Japan where you are not allowed to OWN a gun a NEW Form of crime has occurred called home invasion where they come into your house and stab your ass and steal your shit because they know you have no means to protect yourself.

3rd. ANYONE who is willing to give up there civil liberties for a bit of FALSE security is a fuckin moron.

4th. GUN CONTROL is the biggest crock of shit ever, The question is who gets the gun, CRIMINALS DONT OBEY LAWS, passing more insane laws to prevent insane people from doing insaine things is nothing BUT INSAINE!!!!!


5th. THE GOVERMENT NEEDS TO BE AFRAID OF ITS OWN PEOPLE, ALL THEY CAN TAKE IS WHAT WE GIVE THEM, ALL OUR RIGHTS ARNT WORTH THE PARCHMENT THEY ARE WRITTEN ON IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE GUNS BECASUE THEN WE HAVE NO MEANS TO OVERTHROW THE TYRANNICAL STATE GOVERMENT THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS TRIED TO WARN US ABOUT BECASUE THEY KNOW THE WAY THEIR SYSTEM COULD BE ABUSED>

we are an oppressed populace, we are enslaved into credit, batteries in a questionably legal federal reserve system.


SO yeah

Gun control



Video started my beliefs.

PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
http://video.google.com/url?docid=864268000924014458&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=5549&q=prison%2Bindustrial%2Bcomplex&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D864268000924014458&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D864268000924014458%26q%3Dprison%2Bindustrial%2Bcomplex%26total%3D112%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D1&usg=AL29H20etLLNyaD2NKw2SzfJ6b70CqQvYw

WHY WE FIGHT - MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
http://video.google.com/url?docid=3405669348838274375&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=5921&q=why%2Bwe%2Bfight&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3405669348838274375&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3405669348838274375%26q%3Dwhy%2Bwe%2Bfight%26total%3D43890%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H20i-5_clIysEsQTKCGY_yThDeDVSw

FREEDOM TO FASCISM (the director obviously doesn’t know how to shoot a credible documentary but makes some very well known arguments) http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=199


at the end of this video you see the military coming to Katrina’s victims front doors confiscating there guns... oh wait... what did Thomas Jefferson say??? Something akin to "the funny thing about the second amendment is the American people wont ever need to use it until the government tries to take it away from them" and guess what!! That’s what happening, INCREMENTALLY


Guncontrol2008.com shows how its almost like an unspoken thing that all the candidates in the 2008 election are for gun control, perhaps this is the year Americans loose everything. Or something is happening and we all feel it in our bones.



and that keeping a gun in the house makes it too easy to kill bullshit? people have been killing without guns for thousands of years, keep lying to yourself, its just as easy to kill someone with a knife or your car, perhaps you've never even really ever SHOT a gun, i would hate to assume your mislead on how reliable guns are and how accurate they are.


--------------------
Guns, the only thing more dangerous is not having them.

Support the 2nd amendment or give up all your civil liberties.

Everything said by me is fiction.

Edited by punkhardcore92 (03/18/08 04:06 AM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: DieCommie]
    #8160845 - 03/18/08 06:29 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Easy... end prohibition, fortify the border, life in prison for violent crimes, no prison for non-violent crimes.





you might like the thought of supporting rapists, killers and
pedophiles for the remainder of their lives but I dont, lets
change allow people a chance for rehabilitation, many violent
offenders are simply guilty of things like fighting, give them a
few years and cut them lose, execute those that destroy lives or
take them

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8160878 - 03/18/08 06:41 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I wasn't aware that it was possible for me to disagree with one person about so many things.





it's easy to go through life hiding under mothers skirt, not
having a chance to see the real world, being told what to believe
and how to believe it... canadians are no different than hippies
in the regard that they believe in freedoms as long as it fits
within they're belief, once you venture out from what they see as
the way things should be, they want to strip you of your freedoms

it's fascism

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Posts: 21,287
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Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8160883 - 03/18/08 06:42 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

You are surprisingly insightful today.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!! [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8160893 - 03/18/08 06:49 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

I am every day, I just dont always share

I'm all mycotopia like that :smirk:

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