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OfflineNephlyte
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Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents
    #8068330 - 02/25/08 11:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

right click and 'view image' for a big ass pic



Why do objects have mass? To help find out, Europe's CERN has built the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the most powerful particle accelerator yet created by humans. This May, the LHC is scheduled to start smashing protons into each other with unprecedented impact speeds. The LHC will explore the leading explanation that mass arises from ordinary particles slogging through an otherwise invisible but pervasive field of virtual Higgs particles. Were high energy colliding particles to create real Higgs bosons, the Higgs mechanism for mass creation may be bolstered. LHC will also look for micro black holes, magnetic monopoles, and explore the possibility that every type of fundamental particle we know about has a nearly invisible supersymmetric counterpart. The LHC@Home project will allow anyone with a home computer to help LHC scientists search archived LHC data for these strange beasts. Pictured above, a person stands in front of the huge ATLAS detector, one of six detectors being attached to the LHC.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8088774 - 03/01/08 05:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i'm kind of scared about this thing.

i'm sure they have calculations and so on, but when you get down to it they don't really know whats going to happen.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Offlinebeneath
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8088903 - 03/01/08 07:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i'd hate to see the math they calculated this with.:shocked:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8090286 - 03/01/08 03:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

when you get down to it they don't really know whats going to happen.

That's why we're building it.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: Diploid]
    #8090388 - 03/01/08 03:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i understand, and to me thats kind of scarey... admittedly i know nothing about physics at that level, but it seems like they're doing the experiments in part to fill in the gap of a missing particle they've been looking for.

it seems reasonable to me that where the gap in knowledge exists, there could be alot more than just the single theoretical particle they're looking for...

the only reason i'm worried at all is I read somewhere that the energy levels they're using aren't generally found in nature (all the articles mention they're trying to recreate moments after the big bang and all that) and so by extension their theoretical knowledge is based on math as opposed to observed phenomenon...

what about all that shit like membranes and super strings and all that. all that stuff is completely theoretical right? so do they have any idea what kind of energy levels it would take to disrupt things on that level?

i'm a little comforted by the fact that there is so many scientists working on it though. if it was a really bad idea i don't think they'd have 6000+ scientists on board...

who knows though ya know?

i'm trying to think of a good analogy of why i'm scared but can't really.

the best i can come up with is in my mind it seems kind of similar to pharmaceutical testing. they have a general idea of how things are supposed to work, but when it comes to exact chemicals they often have to just give it to the lab rat and watch what happens. in this case the lab rat would be the fabric of reality though....

not much i can do about it. i guess the first time they get up to full power i'll have a glass of wine or something to celebrate being alive.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8090887 - 03/01/08 05:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

One of the biggest fears among non-scientists is that micro black holes might be created.

IF they are created and IF they don't immediately evaporate due to Hawking Radiation (two big if's), they'll come into being already traveling at some large fraction of the speed of light and would be through the Earth and fly out into space a few microseconds after their creation. And on their way through the Earth, they stand a low probability of encountering any other particles because of their very tiny cross-section.

As for branes and strings, the LHC is many, many trillions and quadrillions of times too small for that. It would have to be bigger than a galaxy to produce enough energy to get anywhere near affecting branes or strings if they exist.

the energy levels they're using aren't generally found in nature

This isn't so. The LHC is puny compared to nature.

The OMG Particle hits the Earth an estimated thousands of times per day and each one carries over a million times the maximum energy the LHC can put out.

This thread is a duplicate. The S&T regulars had a long debate about the potential dangers a while back. Read it here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6739981#Post6739981


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8090890 - 03/01/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

i'm trying to think of a good analogy of why i'm scared but can't really.


Humans fear the unknown. Why? Probably an evolutionary advantage. In the case of the LHC, the more you know about it the less you fear (less is unknown).

Quote:

what about all that shit like membranes and super strings and all that. all that stuff is completely theoretical right? so do they have any idea what kind of energy levels it would take to disrupt things on that level?


The LHC wont produce anywhere close to the energy needed to test string/m theory. That is, it wont be able to bust elementary particles into their strings (if they exist). It may be able to show a concept known as super symmetry, which is required for string theory. But showing that doesnt validate string theory.

Quote:

admittedly i know nothing about physics at that level


There is no reason to fear dude. You admit you know nothing about so obviously there is no reason for the fear!



Im gonna laugh if they find the higgs and that is it... no super symmetry, nothing new... hope not though. Hopefully new exciting physics is learned.

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Offlinedenots87
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8140471 - 03/13/08 07:16 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Hey, people thought that in the days of atomic testing and the first full scale test could ignite the atmosphere killing us all. Didn't happen but the idea sure had to scare the shit out people, this is the same thing, only on a higher, more scientific scale (weapon created in time of crisis vs peaceful exploration.

The reward far outweighs the risk, if we can get a better understanding of physics, possibly even a small break thru maybe we can advance past the age of fossil fuels, and into a new era.

Plus, say something did happen and say a blackhole was created, I would imagine the world would be gone pretty damn fast, no time for a warning, no time for fear right man lol?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: denots87]
    #8140828 - 03/13/08 10:25 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

yeah after doing more reading i'm not really afraid so much.


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Offlinesnoot
look alive ∞
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8148297 - 03/15/08 01:47 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

YEAH im totally stoked to see what this things capable of


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Our newest weapon against the atom and its sub atomic insurgents [Re: snoot]
    #8149210 - 03/15/08 12:08 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Keep us updated guys, this sounds like a lot of cool new findings COULD result. I'd also like to help with my computer, they did say that right?

I helped on SETI for awhile.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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