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OfflineKamek
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137335 - 03/12/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

1% of the worlds population is still 60 million people or so...

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137356 - 03/12/08 03:03 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

You need to clarify: are you concerned about the suffering of humanity, or about the environmental health of the planet?

If you are talking about the suffering of humanity, then the idea that a world war is going to alleviate that is insane. If you want to say things might be better for the remaining 1%, you are misguided on two fronts. First, you assume that this 1% outweighs the remaining 99%, which is illogical. Secondly, you fail to consider the suffering of the remaining 1% as they lose loved ones and find themselves trying to pick out a stone age existence among a world of rubble and nuclear fall out. Many of these 1% would be horribly maimed.

more importantly, we have already had TWO world wars quite recently, and neither had the effect you desire. Insanity as they say is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

If on the other hand you are concerned about the world's environmental health, you are equally misguided. War requires TITANIC expenditures of renewable and non renewable resources, and a world war would have INCREDIBLY negative consequences for species and ecosystems worldwide. Think of forests clearcut and mountains strip-mined, all the animals within displaced in order to fuel the war machine. Think agent orange and napalm.

Think epic expenditure of gas and fuel to drive war tanks and planes. Think oceans and skies choked with pollution. Think nuclear fallout obliterating vast swathes of the biological sphere.

The only way your idea is even worth contemplation is if you frame it in terms of releasing a global man made epidemic to wipe out the majority of humans extremely rapidly and without spillover to any other part of the life chain. This might indeed allow the world to heal in purely biological terms. However, this would in no way be a war, in the sense of nation against nation conflict or even fighting of any kind. It would simply be a swift 48 hour pandemic that would virtually exterminate human life on earth.

Of course, if you really think that this is the desirable result, you should kill yourself now and get the ball rolling. Or were you hoping it would be everyone but you that would die?



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

Edited by Moonshoe (03/12/08 03:08 PM)

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OfflineKamek
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8137390 - 03/12/08 03:11 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

OK, you win.
I don't really know what to say. I guess I will just have to agree with you. However, I still have a feeling things aren't going very well with the world and we will face some huge challenges in the coming years.

So how do you suggest we get the world to educate itself instead of killing itself?

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137395 - 03/12/08 03:11 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

I wish people would realize they need to change on their own but I don't see this happening. That is why things will have to get out of hand first before anyone will realize the truth.




Things are out of hand, and have always been out of hand. There have been thousands of wars already; they do not lead to peace. The previous two World Wars have led to isolationism, xenophobia, paranoia and not much else. I'm not sure why you think a third one is going to make us 'snap out it.'

People everywhere are already very familiar with violence and cruelty; I don't think they find it all that enlightening.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137408 - 03/12/08 03:15 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kamek said:
OK, you win.
I don't really know what to say. I guess I will just have to agree with you. However, I still have a feeling things aren't going very well with the world and we will face some huge challenges in the coming years.

So how do you suggest we get the world to educate itself instead of killing itself?




Work on yourself. Lead by example.

Changing others directly is impossible.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineTylerDurden22
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Registered: 10/31/06
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8137412 - 03/12/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
You need to clarify: are you concerned about the suffering of humanity, or about the environmental health of the planet?

If you are talking about the suffering of humanity, then the idea that a world war is going to alleviate that is insane. If you want to say things might be better for the remaining 1%, you are misguided on two fronts. First, you assume that this 1% outweighs the remaining 99%, which is illogical. Secondly, you fail to consider the suffering of the remaining 1% as they lose loved ones and find themselves trying to pick out a stone age existence among a world of rubble and nuclear fall out. Many of these 1% would be horribly maimed.

more importantly, we have already had TWO world wars quite recently, and neither had the effect you desire. Insanity as they say is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

If on the other hand you are concerned about the world's environmental health, you are equally misguided. War requires TITANIC expenditures of renewable and non renewable resources, and a world war would have INCREDIBLY negative consequences for species and ecosystems worldwide. Think of forests clearcut and mountains strip-mined, all the animals within displaced in order to fuel the war machine. Think agent orange and napalm.

Think epic expenditure of gas and fuel to drive war tanks and planes. Think oceans and skies choked with pollution. Think nuclear fallout obliterating vast swathes of the biological sphere.

The only way your idea is even worth contemplation is if you frame it in terms of releasing a global man made epidemic to wipe out the majority of humans extremely rapidly and without spillover to any other part of the life chain. This might indeed allow the world to heal in purely biological terms. However, this would in no way be a war, in the sense of nation against nation conflict or even fighting of any kind. It would simply be a swift 48 hour pandemic that would virtually exterminate human life on earth.

Of course, if you really think that this is the desirable result, you should kill yourself now and get the ball rolling. Or were you hoping it would be everyone but you that would die?






well put.
It's sad to say that furthering mankind and healing the planet are at 2 ends of the spectrum. Seems to me like a one or the other situation. Not many humans I know would sacrifice themselves to save the planet. Maybe one day we'll be able to do both.

Tyler Durden

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8137481 - 03/12/08 03:36 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Changing others directly is impossible.





Although sometimes a whack with a trout does actually help. :fishslap:


--------------------

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137539 - 03/12/08 03:57 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

It takes real maturity and courage to rethink your positions and admit that you were mistaken. I seriously commend you for that.

"I still have a feeling things aren't going very well with the world and we will face some huge challenges in the coming years"

I agree. And if we meet those challenges with clear heads, strong hearts, a co-operative mentality and above all courage and optimism , then we have a real chance of over coming or at least surviving those challenges.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: the world needs a war [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8137550 - 03/12/08 04:00 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

I wish people would realize they need to change on their own but I don't see this happening. That is why things will have to get out of hand first before anyone will realize the truth.




Things are out of hand, and have always been out of hand.  There have been thousands of wars already; they do not lead to peace.  The previous two World Wars have led to isolationism, xenophobia, paranoia and not much else.  I'm not sure why you think a third one is going to make us 'snap out it.'

People everywhere are already very familiar with violence and cruelty; I don't think they find it all that enlightening.




What's that saying: "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity"?  :lol:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137567 - 03/12/08 04:05 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

1% of the worlds population is still 60 million people or so...




Thank you, Mr. Calculator.


--------------------

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137568 - 03/12/08 04:05 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kamek said:
These days the condition of the planet is getting worse at a frightening rate. Not just the environment but also political situations in the world has been suffering in recent years.
That is why I think the world needs a wake up call. Something to shock it into action. And lately I have been thinking, however much I dislike it, what the world needs is another world war. There needs to be death and destruction for mankind to realize that the route it is following now leads nowhere. And consequently for what remains after this war to rebuild the world for the better.
I wish people would realize they need to change on their own but I don't see this happening. That is why things will have to get out of hand first before anyone will realize the truth.




This post is very prophetic, I am impressed. Not prophetic in terms of what is going to happen to the planet, but yourself. You probably don't even realize it yet but you are in the process of realizing that the path YOU are on is not working for you and you must "wake yourself up" to rebuild yourself for the better.

Then again, every person is a microcosm for the whole, so maybe you really are speaking for the entire planet. I think everyone is being moved to work on themselves at this time. Can't stop change!


--------------------

Edited by EternalCowabunga (03/12/08 04:07 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8137573 - 03/12/08 04:06 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)


Just imagine what would happen if 99% of the worlds population was wiped out. Suddenly the world would become a much more peaceful place. Enough space for everyone and much less conflict.
I think the planet would thrive if this would happen.



Right on. Over population is the real problem. Did you ever wonder what the human population would be now without the hundreds or thousands of millions killed in warfare throughout history? :whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8137587 - 03/12/08 04:11 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I think everyone is being moved to work on themselves at this time.

IMO this is a major area of delusional thinking in the new agey beliefs. IMO it's an egotistical inability to relate to all of human history due to adolesence and inexperience.

This is not personal toward anyone in particular.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Icelander]
    #8137595 - 03/12/08 04:14 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

lol I think you're pretty much right, everything has always been in a state of becoming, the delusion is in thinking that what we are becoming is ultimately significant and has a teleological destiny


--------------------

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OfflineKamek
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Registered: 01/08/05
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8140446 - 03/13/08 06:54 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

I think you might be right. I have noticed I have been trying to change myself a lot lately. Working on my bad ways and trying very hard to improve them or replace them with better things. Its a work in progress and it won't be finished very soon but I see some small progress lately.

Pretty cool you pointed this out, it made me realize this might actually be what is happening.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8140463 - 03/13/08 07:10 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Worst idea ever.

War just means people's creations get destroyed. Lives, jobs, houses, roads, all sorts of things. There's new technology that gets rushed in, but that's about it. War is a failure of reason, a triumph of evil over good.

What the world needs is better communication, something that's not going to happen whilst the television networks are in place.

It wouldn't be hard to bring their satelites down. They have to make the coordinates public, otherwise you can't point your satelite dish at them.


--------------------

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Offlineeve69
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8140524 - 03/13/08 08:08 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Kamek said:
These days the condition of the planet is getting worse at a frightening rate. Not just the environment but also political situations in the world has been suffering in recent years.
That is why I think the world needs a wake up call. Something to shock it into action. And lately I have been thinking, however much I dislike it, what the world needs is another world war. There needs to be death and destruction for mankind to realize that the route it is following now leads nowhere. And consequently for what remains after this war to rebuild the world for the better.
I wish people would realize they need to change on their own but I don't see this happening. That is why things will have to get out of hand first before anyone will realize the truth.




Oh sure, while fire fights fire, poison cures a poison and a thorn can remove a thorn, the basic means of fighting now leaves nothing alive in its wake, so maybe yes one can put out a fire by blasting the entire land until nothing can burn, but that's sort of extreme.

If humanity wishes to unify we will need a non-human enemy to fight to unify us. By non-human, I do mean something like the end of the ozone layer, or global warming, or some agressive disaster which pushes all of us to the willingness to make sacrifices of comfort and egotism. UFO threat would be nice. That sort of thing.

On the other hand, huge groups of like minded meditators pumping out shakti and bliss could do this same thing.


--------------------
...or something






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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: Kamek]
    #8140567 - 03/13/08 08:40 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Kamek said:
Quote:

Sage.Phish said:
So you mean war hitting home in the middle of a Western City?




Yes, something like that.




You could move to my city (Baltimore)

Just remember to duck mother fucker! :machinegun:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the world needs a war [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8140660 - 03/13/08 09:18 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
lol I think you're pretty much right, everything has always been in a state of becoming, the delusion is in thinking that what we are becoming is ultimately significant and has a teleological destiny




I agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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