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Offlinelonestar2004
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Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’
    #8132070 - 03/11/08 02:19 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — As a Christian, Elaine Huguenin is against efforts to legitimize same-sex “marriage.”

So, when the Albuquerque photographer was asked via e-mail in September 2006 to photograph a “commitment ceremony” for two women, Huguenin declined. That was the end of the matter, she thought.

But Huguenin didn’t take into account New Mexico’s anti-discrimination laws. Instead of hiring another photographer, one of the lesbians, Vanessa Willock, filed a civil complaint against Huguenin’s company, Elane Photography.

Now, in one of the first cases of its kind in the state, a three-member tribunal of New Mexico’s Human Rights Commission is considering the complaint brought forward by New Mexico’s Human Rights Bureau, operated by the Labor Relations Division of the state’s Department of Workforce Solutions.

The tribunal will decide whether Huguenin should pay actual and punitive damages to Willock because of her decision not to take pictures of the homosexual ceremony.

Established in 1969 by the New Mexico Legislature to enforce state law preventing discrimination based on race and gender in employment, housing and public accommodation, the human rights commission is taking its first steps to incorporate a 2006 expansion of the act to include “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.”

“It warps the whole concept of discrimination to an absurd extreme,” said Jordan Lorence, senior council for the Alliance Defense Fund, the Phoenix-based organization which has come to Huguenin’s defense.

Lorence represented Elane Photography at a Jan. 28-29 hearing and is coordinating post-trial briefs.

He doesn’t expect a decision for several months. But whatever the outcome, Lorence said, the fact that Huguenin must defend herself before a state tribunal “makes this a serious threat to religious liberty and the right of conscience.”

Lorence said the New Mexico case is only one example of a growing trend to use human rights tribunals and civil courts against individuals who make decisions based on their religious beliefs.

Said Lorence, “It is becoming more and more common as a way to tighten the noose on religious bodies and anyone who has a traditional view of marriage and family.”

Lorence cited a local Knights of Columbus council in British Columbia, which was fined $2,000 by the province’s Human Rights Tribunal in 2005 for refusing to rent their hall for a same-sex “wedding” reception.

In another case, a Methodist facility in Ocean Grove, N.J., faces a tax bill of $20,000 after its state tax-exempt status was revoked for refusing to host a homosexual commitment ceremony.

And in late February, the threat of a discrimination lawsuit forced a Catholic hospital in California to agree to perform breast augmentation surgery on a transsexual man.

The transsexual man, Charlene Hastings, filed a complaint against the Daughters of Charity Health System in San Francisco Superior Court for harassment and discrimination after the hospital group’s Seton Medical Center refused the surgery.

In a written statement in February, health system spokeswoman Elizabeth Nikels said the hospital was simply following “our ethics and standards of behavior in health care. The hospital does not perform surgery procedures contrary to Catholic teaching; for example, abortion, direct euthanasia, transgender surgery of any of its related components.”

But on Feb. 27, Bay Area TV station CBS News 5 said the hospital had changed its position, the California Catholic Daily reported March 1.

In a statement to CBS News 5, a hospital spokesman said, “We regret any confusion that may have come from this situation. We want this patient and her physician to know that they are welcome at Seton Medical Center.”

Hastings’ lawyer Chris Dolan said that his client would continue to seek monetary damages despite the hospital’s reversal of policy.

Said Dolan, “Like any good religious experience, first you need enlightenment and then you need atonement.”

In the New Mexico case, Labor Relations Division Director Francie Cordova said she’s simply enforcing the law.

Cordova, who personally approved the prosecution of Elane Photography as director of the Human Rights Bureau, said Huguenin’s religious beliefs are irrelevant to the question of whether to initiate a prosecution.

“For the division, we look at whether anyone who holds themselves open for business refused service based on race, gender or any other protected status,” Cordova said. “If prima facie evidence is found, it is our obligation to prosecute.”

The complaint against Huguenin is about artistic freedom as well as religious freedom, according to her attorney Lorence.

“You’re saying the government can compel anyone to use their talents to further goals you don’t agree with,” he said. “Otherwise, there will be retaliation.”

Said Lorence, “If you give government the right to punish people for having a different opinion than the prevailing secular orthodoxy, you’re saying whoever controls government can suppress dissent. I think we embrace that idea at our peril.”


http://ncregister.com/site/article/13866



Listen up Gay people, the majority of folks have no problem with you. Its this kind of bullshit (Government interference) that makes the minority of people continue to hate you.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (03/11/08 02:23 PM)

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Invisiblevonhumboldt
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132106 - 03/11/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:


Listen up Gay people, the majority of folks have no problem with you. Its this kind of bullshit (Government interference) that makes the minority of people continue to hate you.....




So the litigious activity of a few justifies the denial of civil rights for all?

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8132120 - 03/11/08 02:30 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

vonhumboldt said:
Quote:


Listen up Gay people, the majority of folks have no problem with you. Its this kind of bullshit (Government interference) that makes the minority of people continue to hate you.....




So the litigious activity of a few justifies the denial of civil rights for all?




This kinda crap TAKES RIGHTS AWAY from me as a Straight person.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlineledfut
I once jerkedoff w/ bothhands
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132128 - 03/11/08 02:31 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

i'm all for gay rights, but this makes me resent the fags and dykes.


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May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132217 - 03/11/08 02:44 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

how is a hired photographer engaging in "employment, housing and public
accommodation"?

anyone has the right to refuse service to whomever they please.

go fuck yourselves, fgts.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Invisiblevonhumboldt
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132220 - 03/11/08 02:45 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

vonhumboldt said:
Quote:


Listen up Gay people, the majority of folks have no problem with you. Its this kind of bullshit (Government interference) that makes the minority of people continue to hate you.....




So the litigious activity of a few justifies the denial of civil rights for all?




This kinda crap TAKES RIGHTS AWAY from me as a Straight person.




yeah, and the poor Woolworth Company too.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8132260 - 03/11/08 02:54 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

vonhumboldt said:

and the poor Woolworth Company





"a three-member tribunal of New Mexico’s Human Rights Commission will decide whether Huguenin should pay actual and punitive damages to Willock because of her decision not to take pictures of the homosexual ceremony."


and the poor photographer


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineHighHat
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132398 - 03/11/08 03:21 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

So what if I want to hire a photographer to film a porno in new mexico and they refuse? Can I sue them on the basis of discrimination based on my sexual identity as a nymphomaniac?

This law is such bullshit. BULLSHIT!

GAYS: You're fueling the hatred that some have for you with this kind of bullshit. You are forcing people to do something they don't agree with, which will only make them absolutely LOATHE you. Most people don't give a shit, so why wouldn't you just go find one of the majority who will preform your services with a smile on their face? If you think that forcing fervently straight people to get involved in heterosexual activities, its no wonder the religious nuts will tell people you TRY to turn people gay. I mean. Seriously. wtf.

Wandering thoughts generally turn into rants.


--------------------
Have you ever felt like you were wearing a hat, but you weren't?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" -Letter from the Pennsylvania Assembly, November 11, 1755

This profile is strictly for role-playing. Any alleged association with illegal activities is purely fictional. Any images depicting illegal activities are photo-shopped or stolen.

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Invisiblevonhumboldt
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132486 - 03/11/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

how is this any different from when Woolworth's refused to serve black people?

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132787 - 03/11/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Urgh, dykes. I bet they're vegan to.

Now, if it was a doctor refusing to operate on cancer because of sexuality or race, that's wrong. Because that directly affects someone's life.

But a photographer? Hey look, she's not getting your money to do the shoot, and you can tell your friends she's a cunt. Going to court over it is not about human rights, it's about fucking greed.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Registered: 09/12/07
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Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: afoaf]
    #8132793 - 03/11/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
how is a hired photographer engaging in "employment, housing and public
accommodation"?

anyone has the right to refuse service to whomever they please.

go fuck yourselves, fgts.




Not if you're a registered business, you don't. Would the wedding photographer get a pass if she refused to do the photography for a mixed-race wedding for instance? If not, why should she get to indulge in other forms of illegal discrimination?

For one thing, this article's horribly biased and downright bigoted. There's no reason to put quotation marks around "wedding", especially those that occurred in Canada and are thus legally sanctioned. So I don't know how much of the story is being left out in the name of the "oh, the poor God-fearing Christians being persecuted by the all-powerful HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA" narrative, but if any news source is willing to casually throw out any semblance of objectivity, why should we take what it says at face value?

I have no sympathy for this woman. If she refuses to serve clients because of her unsupportable bigotry, whether that be bigotry towards other racial, religious, ethnic, or sexual groups, she should be punished in accordance with the law. If she's not willing to give her services to the public, she shouldn't register as a public entity and reap the rewards of such registration. She was asked to take pictures for an event that held a lot of significance and emotion for a great number of people, and instead she denigrated the event and those involved. I'm sorry, but being told the equivalent of "We don't serve niggers/fags/dykes/beaners/kikes here" hurts, and if it's against the law, then fuck her.

Edit: I also like the "this is why we hate gays" comments. Really? THAT is why you hate gays? I guess America's racism can be traced back to the OJ trial too then, right?

Edited by Yossarian22 (03/11/08 04:59 PM)

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OfflineIrdamage
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8132925 - 03/11/08 05:29 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Unfortunately it brings up a hard question, does private business reserve the right to discriminate?

Personally I think this woman is a downright cunt for refusing based solely on her views of marriage and homosexuality, business is business after all and its stupid to throw some away because you have opposing view points.

Also, in response to the previous posts. It shows a lot of ignorance to lump all homosexuals together with the actions of these two. Especially to then try and say that homosexuals bring the hatred upon themselves.

Thats just gay....

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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Irdamage]
    #8132952 - 03/11/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

It shows a lot of ignorance to lump all homosexuals together with the actions of these two. Especially to then try and say that homosexuals bring the hatred upon themselves.



:thumbup:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8132987 - 03/11/08 05:49 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

This is ridiculous. Any private entity that does not receive gov't funding should be able to discriminate to its heart's desire.

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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Redstorm]
    #8133043 - 03/11/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

So a restaurant should be able to turn away a black patron because "we don't serve niggers here?" Because if you believe that's OK, you're arguing against decades of precedent.

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Offlined33p
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8133052 - 03/11/08 06:14 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
So a restaurant should be able to turn away a black patron because "we don't serve niggers here?" Because if you believe that's OK, you're arguing against decades of precedent.




That should be A-OK legally imo. However, the restuarant should expect a public shit storm.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8133054 - 03/11/08 06:14 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Yes, as long as they receive no federal funding.

No one has any right to tell someone who he or she should be forced to do business with.

Racist business practices are stupid and end up hurting the company in the end, but it shouldn't be up to the government to dictate business practices.

Also, there is nothing in the constitution which gives the government the power to enforce this other than the ridiculous findings of the courts for the use of the commerce clause.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: Redstorm]
    #8133064 - 03/11/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
This is ridiculous. Any private entity that does not receive gov't funding should be able to discriminate to its heart's desire.





NO Redstorm!

you will comply and approve, Or you will pay.:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (03/11/08 06:18 PM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8133256 - 03/11/08 06:52 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

This is why government shouldn't get involved in private affairs, it ends up creating privledged classes of people, which is bullshit. This is far better than hate crime legislation though.

But this sounds like it won't win anyways. in keeping with the typically shitty covering of legal topics, this article doesn't really delve into the threshold issue of who is bound by this act's definitions, but I suspect this photogrpaher is not such a person.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Christian Prosecuted: Refused to Photograph Homosexual ‘Commitment Ceremony’ [Re: johnm214]
    #8133458 - 03/11/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 21 days ago)

It's total bullshit but the woman is a fucking cunt ass bitch. Fucking religious nut cased cunt. However, the case itself is bs.


--------------------



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