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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers.
#8129643 - 03/10/08 09:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was reading about Banrot 40wp and Benomyl applied to casing layers and grains that stops spores from germinating completely.
I was wondering what amount of Banrot 40wp would be applied per amount of grains I'm assuming it would be applied during the soak or simmer. It's about 85$ for 2lbs so I'm just trying to get a rough idea of how much use one would get out of 2lbs.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130367 - 03/11/08 01:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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bump for more info
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: shevanel]
#8130445 - 03/11/08 02:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldn't use them since they are both fungicides.Also barot is toxic it isn't very toxic to humans or any mammals but has show an increase in tumors in the liver which shouldn't hurt anything since mushrooms have shown to break down toxins and render them harmless to us (not all toxins i believe mercury is present in fruit bodies)so it's unknown if any of this would be presented in a fruit body.From my experience there isn't a way to combat trich once it is in the substrate anything used would also hinder cube (or what ever species you are working with)mycelium.
**edit**
Oh i almost forgot it is rated as a carcinogen which promotes cancer is another reason i wouldnt use it.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional"
what you should look for in manure
Edited by xaxphaanes (03/11/08 02:49 AM)
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#8130459 - 03/11/08 02:51 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Uh the idea is the fact that it's a fungicide. Prep grains and PC -> inoc with mycelium contam rate drops to zero as long as the LC isn't contam'd
the idea is the fungicide stops germination of ALL spores including cubensis or w.e
RR used it for a while and said it's fine but he prefers a good sterile technique instead.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130463 - 03/11/08 02:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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The question is it lasts up to six months in soil so how long would it last and effect the growing mycelium in the jar? And would it be present in fruit bodies.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional"
what you should look for in manure
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130465 - 03/11/08 02:54 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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so if its a fungicide it will only be a fungicide to spores, not mycelium?
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#8130468 - 03/11/08 02:55 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe it won't be in the mushrooms. I just won't use my spent substrate for compost.
Mushrooms metabolize their food and don't leach stuff in most cases as far as I know.
RR would likely warn people if it was in the mushrooms too.
Also it is in the soil for up to three months because farmers PUT it in soil. Just to clear that up assuming it wasn't clear.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: shevanel]
#8130472 - 03/11/08 02:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: so if its a fungicide it will only be a fungicide to spores, not mycelium?
yeah a fungicide keeps spores from germinating.
Benomyl halts mycelium growth. Workman suggested 10mg/L.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130483 - 03/11/08 03:04 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am not saying that it wont work or cant work i am just saying there isnt any scientific data that i know of proving any of this.Plus it was taken off the market so i am unsure of where to obtain this product.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional"
what you should look for in manure
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#8130488 - 03/11/08 03:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Benomyl was taken off the market. Not Banrot 40wp.
RR and Workman testing it them being the veterans on this forum I consider that scientific data.
The purpose of this thread is to collaborate and discuss "data" about these chemicals/products.
Workman reports Benomyl at 10mg/L stops spore germination and doesn't effect mycelium growth much.
RR reports that an unspecified amount of Banrot 40WP will stop spore germination comletely even with an open jar and not effect mycelium growth. This would mean you'd need no sterile technique you could simply pressure cook, open your jar in open air , drop a wedge of mycelium from agar into your jar and close it.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130509 - 03/11/08 03:32 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmm very interesting I will ask my boss about it tomorrow and see if i can find out some more information.As far as i know we do not use that product but all of our spawn is shipped to us pre-made already colonized so all we have to do is mix it with the compost in our substrate beds.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional"
what you should look for in manure
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#8130512 - 03/11/08 03:35 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Awesome, be sure to share.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130644 - 03/11/08 05:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I found no problems when using banrot, and the fruits came out normal. It seems I used 1 tablespoon of Banrot 40WP per five gallons of soak water, but that could probably be reduced.
Banrot will prevent fungi spores from germinating, but doesn't affect mycelium. It also seems to prevent bacteria. I once left a freshly sterilized jar of rye berries exposed to the open air for half an hour or so, then closed it up and a month later, it was still contaminant free.
However, good sterile procedure renders it unnecessary for grains, and while soaking casing material in it will prevent trich and cobweb, proper pasteurization and good air exchange will also prevent mold on casing layers. I prefer growing without chemicals and am generally an organic gardener. The Banrot experiments were simply experiments. Dried and crushed Rhododendron leaves will also help prevent trichoderma and cobweb in casing layers. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8130668 - 03/11/08 06:14 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cheers,
Do you know if any of the chemicals end up in the mushrooms?
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8130746 - 03/11/08 06:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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To the best of my understanding, none. However, I haven't sent any off for testing. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8130757 - 03/11/08 07:03 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Muhsrooms having traces of substrate contents, vessels, casing layers isn't likely, eh?
I was reading about a thread on improving mushroom taste and you mentioned how mushrooms metabolize their food so they don't taste like whatever their grown on.
Then there was another thread with Shiitake's and aluminum trays and them breaking down the tray but not having increased aluminum content in the fruit bodies.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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Pinback
Stranger


Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 837
Loc: Europe
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: flavoraid]
#8209681 - 03/29/08 10:06 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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A quick search in the literature shows that thiophanate-methyl (one of the active ingredients in Banrot) inhibits both spore germination as well as mycelial growth. The same is the case for other benzimidazol type fungicides. Just for completeness.
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: Pinback]
#8209743 - 03/29/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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RR posted above that using 1tbsp to 5gal of water will prefer spore germination but not mycelium growth.
So you probably need to use more than that.
Workman also said the same about Benomyl saying you need to use so much before mycelium growth is effected. Using 10mg/1L was acceptable.
I'm assuming in a commercial setting you would use more than these said amounts as you would be trying to allow mycelium growth in the above scenarios.
The fact that it will effect mycelium growth with a larger amount used means it inhibits growth. Just so that's clear.
-------------------- coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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hostyle
Stranger

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 60
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17987723 - 03/21/13 12:38 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I found no problems when using banrot, and the fruits came out normal. It seems I used 1 tablespoon of Banrot 40WP per five gallons of soak water, but that could probably be reduced.
Banrot will prevent fungi spores from germinating, but doesn't affect mycelium. It also seems to prevent bacteria. I once left a freshly sterilized jar of rye berries exposed to the open air for half an hour or so, then closed it up and a month later, it was still contaminant free.
However, good sterile procedure renders it unnecessary for grains, and while soaking casing material in it will prevent trich and cobweb, proper pasteurization and good air exchange will also prevent mold on casing layers. I prefer growing without chemicals and am generally an organic gardener. The Banrot experiments were simply experiments. Dried and crushed Rhododendron leaves will also help prevent trichoderma and cobweb in casing layers. RR
Super interesting post.
This would be perfect for someone who didn't have a flow hood.
I'm curious though RR did you add mycelium to the exposed jar and if so, a month later was the jar colonized?
I searched the net for No Damp (Canadian version of Banrot) and it is no where to be found.
Rumor has it there is a recipe for No Damp floating around. Anyone reading this know of it?
Best I could find regarding the recipe is:
hydroxyquinoline + benzoic acid
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: RR -Fungicides applied to grains and casing layers. [Re: hostyle]
#17987857 - 03/21/13 01:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is a very old thread, so do not expect a prompt reply!
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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