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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir
#8128686 - 03/10/08 06:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok.. I am using straight coir... the first flush was bountiful and very potent, like always... the 2nd flush, however produce massive fruits, that were not strong at all... I at 30 grams wet and didnt feel anything..
I know I ran out of nutes... could I dunk them in coffee water to prep for the second flush, so that they are actually potent again? if not, then what should I do? like I said.. the first flush was awesome and strong... hit you like a ton of bricks.. 2nd flush off the same casing, garbage...
suggestions?
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mariodiet
Rageing boner


Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 89
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128700 - 03/10/08 06:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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How soon did you eat the second flush after eating the first? You build up tolerance to psilocybin pretty fast.
-------------------- Well hey there.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: mariodiet]
#8128714 - 03/10/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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well.. it wasnt just me.. it was everyone.. and I mean all my friends came over and chowed down on an oz, and no one felt anything at all..
it was for sure nutes... I just need to know what to dunk them in to remedy this... will adding coffee to it help with later flushes?
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BlargIAmDead
Shroom Samurai




Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 550
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128734 - 03/10/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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If it was mutlispore go ahead and accept that not all fruits are created equal and move on. You can dunk in whatever you want and let us know how it goes. And if they're growing monster mushrooms...how exactly is the substrate out of nutrients?
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128735 - 03/10/08 07:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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im not sure that dunking in coffee will help at all, but im sure it will help up the risk of contamination, since your cake will now be coated in nutrients, it will give mold something to grow from on the outside of your cake. 
try it out. the worst that will happen is youll lose the cake. experimentation is how this place has come as far as it has.
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mariodiet
Rageing boner


Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 89
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: BlargIAmDead]
#8128749 - 03/10/08 07:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmm, this doesn't really make much sense..the only thing I can think of is genetics, but that would mean they should have a relatively close potency to the first flush. Maybe not though, dunk and see how the third flush does.
-------------------- Well hey there.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: BlargIAmDead]
#8128761 - 03/10/08 07:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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water has more to do with making large fruits.. nutes play a large roll in the size, but they play a huge roll in making them strong in latter flushes.. if they eat all the nutes in the 1st flush, there wont be as many in the 2nd .. at least to my understanding
this is a B+ isolate that I have been using for months.. so I know it is strong... Im not a rook, and have been growing for a while now..
just need to know what some of the experts think would help in later flushes...
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: BlargIAmDead]
#8128763 - 03/10/08 07:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlargIAmDead said: If it was mutlispore go ahead and accept that not all fruits are created equal and move on. You can dunk in whatever you want and let us know how it goes. And if they're growing monster mushrooms...how exactly is the substrate out of nutrients?
MS has nothing to do with potency or lack there of. if the first flush was potent and later flushes are not, it suggests lack of nutrients. this is why you can grow the same strain from the same MS to LC and then onto different substrates and have different potencies within the same MS syringe. STRAW, POO, WBS, RYE, COIR, they all have different nutes and different outcomes as far as potency.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128769 - 03/10/08 07:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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im done with that grow.. i just started fruiting 3 more casings last night.. we will see in a week what happens... its for sure not genetics, that is why I am so baffled at the difference in potency...
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128777 - 03/10/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: water has more to do with making large fruits.. nutes play a large roll in the size, but they play a huge roll in making them strong in latter flushes.. if they eat all the nutes in the 1st flush, there wont be as many in the 2nd .. at least to my understanding
this is a B+ isolate that I have been using for months.. so I know it is strong... Im not a rook, and have been growing for a while now..
just need to know what some of the experts think would help in later flushes...
IMO you need to add more variety in your substrate, coir works as it has some nutes, but it isnt the best when it comes to nutes. when i used to grow i did not have alot of success with straight coir as a substrate. the nutes get sucked out rather quickly, which is why they make a good casing too. try going 50/50 coir/poo or coir/rye or coir/WBS. coir/poo being the best from most peoples experience around here. nothing beats poo.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128778 - 03/10/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah.. I am using straight coir, and it has been absolutely flawless, until the potency issue.. we will see in this next grow what will happen...
but any more suggestions on how to dunk and give nutes?
I never have really had a problem with contams because I am vverrryy clean... so I dont think that will cause a problem if I dunk in something..
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128790 - 03/10/08 07:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: yeah.. I am using straight coir, and it has been absolutely flawless, until the potency issue.. we will see in this next grow what will happen...
but any more suggestions on how to dunk and give nutes?
I never have really had a problem with contams because I am vverrryy clean... so I dont think that will cause a problem if I dunk in something..
give it a try then, let us know what happens.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128793 - 03/10/08 07:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont like messing with shit anymore.. lol.. that why I am using coir... im going to try and add some coffee and maybe a few cups of brf or something in the next batch that I prepare.. and I will try to dunk these after the first flush.. I will sterilize some coffee grinds that I get from my girls work, and maybe boil it in water, then let the water cool, and dunk in that....
Im still open to suggestions about what to dunk it in
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128810 - 03/10/08 07:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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could I grind hella wbs and mix it in with the coir before I lay it out in the fruiting trays? like maybe 4 cups ground wbs per brick of coir?
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xdaveman
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 84
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: LeftyBurnz]
#8128818 - 03/10/08 07:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
BlargIAmDead said: If it was mutlispore go ahead and accept that not all fruits are created equal and move on. You can dunk in whatever you want and let us know how it goes. And if they're growing monster mushrooms...how exactly is the substrate out of nutrients?
MS has nothing to do with potency or lack there of. if the first flush was potent and later flushes are not, it suggests lack of nutrients. this is why you can grow the same strain from the same MS to LC and then onto different substrates and have different potencies within the same MS syringe. STRAW, POO, WBS, RYE, COIR, they all have different nutes and different outcomes as far as potency.
you are wrong. with a MS inocculation each mushroom that grows from it can have different genetics. thats why pinsets can be so uneven and why mushies from the same flush will vary in size so much. with out isolating you can not narrow something specific down except for genetics.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: xdaveman]
#8128821 - 03/10/08 07:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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which is exactly why I isolate
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xdaveman
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 84
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8128868 - 03/10/08 07:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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well i guess it is not genetics then. i think trying to put more nutrients into it now is a bad idea. i have never tried but i believe you will have to incubate it again so the mycelium can take in the nutrients which will open the door for contams. it might be a better idea to just start a new batch if they were that bad. next time add some used coffee grounds or worm castings to the original mix. thats about the only thing i can think of.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: xdaveman]
#8128884 - 03/10/08 07:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok.. for sure.. Im still going to try and dunk them, just because if i dont, I will just throw them out anyway... its a cool experiment.. I will try and post my results...
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: xdaveman]
#8128955 - 03/10/08 07:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
xdaveman said:
Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
BlargIAmDead said: If it was mutlispore go ahead and accept that not all fruits are created equal and move on. You can dunk in whatever you want and let us know how it goes. And if they're growing monster mushrooms...how exactly is the substrate out of nutrients?
MS has nothing to do with potency or lack there of. if the first flush was potent and later flushes are not, it suggests lack of nutrients. this is why you can grow the same strain from the same MS to LC and then onto different substrates and have different potencies within the same MS syringe. STRAW, POO, WBS, RYE, COIR, they all have different nutes and different outcomes as far as potency.
you are wrong. with a MS inocculation each mushroom that grows from it can have different genetics. thats why pinsets can be so uneven and why mushies from the same flush will vary in size so much. with out isolating you can not narrow something specific down except for genetics.
never heard of non potent mushrooms comming from MS. maybe im wrong in that aspect, but thats not the problem here, as the first flush was potent.
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smokedout420
The EnlightenedOne



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 484
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: LeftyBurnz]
#8129291 - 03/10/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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try adding worm casting to the next batch. just when you pasteurize make sure to put in a turkey tin and spray water with a spray bottle then pasteurize in the oven just make a tad bit over field compas. unless you like to pasteurize in qt jars with lid on.
last time i done 50/50 worm casting/coir to a quart of colonized wbs. then cased in 70/30 coir/verm
hope that helps. some recommend peat over coir when it comes to casing.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
#8131133 - 03/11/08 10:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont case with anything but 100% straight verm.. its all I have ever used, and I have tried others, but this works the best.. for me anyway...
i have hella used coffee grounds from my girls work.. Im going to sterilize that and add it to the coir on the next grow for sure.. Im hoping that it will at least bring the pleasures of a potent 2nd flush... or it will just eat all the nutes in the 1st, and I will have supermushy... haha
im going to go around 7030 or 6040 for the coir/coffee, as I have alot and need to do something with it... it will at least add more sub that I can put in trays in and fill my martha.. its only half full right now, as I dont have any spawn... just a master jar... but im taking care of that this weekend... time to go buy some quart jars and a pc and some wbs... need more spawn fast.. haha...
so yeah.. like I said.. Im going to try and boil some coffee, strain it, and soak it in the coffee water to dunk... if it doesnt work, oh well... got more coming and will have a great first flush at least...
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131150 - 03/11/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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it seems by the second flush you should already have something new to put in the fruiting chamber. i would just toss it... start fresh... and just to let ya know a 60/40 verm coir casing works great.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131179 - 03/11/08 10:17 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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A casing should have no nutes.. the only reason cats use verm and peat is so they know when to moisten the casings... coir should be 100% non nutritious... period..
If you know how to prepare straight verm right, then it works great... my casing is not the problem.. I never get contams, and it holds all its moisture all the way through the 1st flush... a dunk, and a light misting of the casing brings it back to field cap..
I case with what casing actually should be... thats why I dont use anything but straight verm, as I know how to control the moisture content throughout the grow... I know alot of cats us verm somthing mixes for casing, but I do not, and for good reason..
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131184 - 03/11/08 10:20 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh yeah.. and you never case with a substrate... coir is used to grow on, not case with it...
you can do a search and find a nice thread between RR and some other cat, about the fact that coir is fffaaarrrr more suitable for a sub then a casing...
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131195 - 03/11/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: A casing should have no nutes.. the only reason cats use verm and peat is so they know when to moisten the casings... coir should be 100% non nutritious... period..
If you know how to prepare straight verm right, then it works great... my casing is not the problem.. I never get contams, and it holds all its moisture all the way through the 1st flush... a dunk, and a light misting of the casing brings it back to field cap..
I case with what casing actually should be... thats why I dont use anything but straight verm, as I know how to control the moisture content throughout the grow... I know alot of cats us verm somthing mixes for casing, but I do not, and for good reason..
why shouldn't it have nutes?
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131204 - 03/11/08 10:27 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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i can tell you that just cause some cat said it... its not always the best method or the only method...even if they are rr.. been casing with 60/40 verm coir since i started casing ... and it works great..
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131210 - 03/11/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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because by definition, a casing is a non nutritious layer to hold moisture and create a microclimate for pinning... having nutes in the casing tends to cause overlay more, especially with coir... if you ever look at my casings, you will see almost no myc poking out, just lots and lots of mushies... You DO NOT want the casing layer to colonize.. a lil is fine, but you want it to be very easy for the mushies to grow through... a colonized casing layer doesnt do that.. they grow ON the casing instead of THROUGH the casing..
that is why you want no nutes.. a proper casing should have no my sticking out, just lots of mushies...
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131212 - 03/11/08 10:33 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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a casing layer is a "contam barrier" not a substrate, only a substrate should be nutritious. A casing layer that contains nutritious matter, will only invite contamination, which all of us know, we don't want, Verm being inorganic and inert, totally avoids this, in fact, verm doesnt even have to be sterilized or pasteurized.
That is why straight Verm works wonderfully. If you know what you are doing, and have an eye for moisture content of verm, then you will be successful using it.
Coir is not a casing layer, it is a substrate, this is absolutely correct.. Why? because it's nutritious.
either way, a casing layer , whatever method you choose to use, THAT WORKS FOR YOU, has no bearing on potency. I like to think that potency is simply genetic, and subsequent flushes play no part in weather or not a shroom is potent.. however, I have found with coir, if your nitrogen content isn't up to par, then you won't have potent subsequent flushes, I can only say this from experience, and no cold hard data.. This is why, when I pasteurize coir, I add lots of malt, lots of karo, lots of coffee, 2 cans of non alcoholic beer boiled down, and some calc carb.. as well as add verm to it.
I can only say, that the more nutes you add, the longer it's going to flush, and the more potency (possibly) per subsequent flush.
now, more then just one person has made this claim.. Im here to back up the OP's claims on this same matter.
peace.
I didn't start cultivating until i was 19, and im 33 now, so go figure.
Edited by jeetered (03/11/08 10:38 AM)
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131217 - 03/11/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im not stating something I heard.. Im stating truth.. and I have tried all different types of casing layers.. and straight verm is the one for me..
THE ONLY REASON THAT CATS USE OTHER STUFF IN THE CASING, IS SO THEY CAN SEE THE COLOR CHANGE WHEN IT GETS DRY AND THEN THEY KNOW WHEN TO MIST THEIR CASING... THATS IT..
you can do a search on this stuff, as it has been beaten to death over the years, by me, and quite a few other cats... you gotta remember.. I have been doing this since I was 14 and Im 23 now, so I have heard all the old stories and teks long before I hit this site...
look up the definition of a casing layer, and prove me wrong.. lol
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131230 - 03/11/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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THANKS!!! I knew some one else who was an experienced hand would come in and co-sign... glad to see someone knows a thing or two about a thing or two...
no offense to anyone else... for sure READ before posting info you think you know.. please... it makes it soo much harder for noobs when there is so much misinformation floating around..
and if you use those casings and get great results, great.. do not change a thing.. I was just simply clarifying what a casing layer is for the young chap who asked why no nutes in the casing... thats all
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131232 - 03/11/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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it makes all the difference just having years of experience... Im glad I started early... haha
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131245 - 03/11/08 10:43 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have taken friends that have never even known that it could be done, and brought them up to my level in two months, lucky for them, they didn't have to start out transplanting found dung piles of cubes into their homes, or to their compost bins, to taking prints, to pftek, to whatever it is we do now, hell, i find hydr0420's invitro poo bag tek ingenius for bulk growing, it's simple, fast, and foolproof, same with ohmatic's monotubs. That's the only two ways i grow.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131261 - 03/11/08 10:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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i guess everyone has his or her way.. funny how that works huh..... i see no problem with nutes in the casing layer though.... as long as there is adequate fae you should not have to worry about contams
but i do think the statement jeets made up there about the casing layer not having any effects on potency is wrong... the shrooms are going to pull nutrients from the casing as well as the sub even if its not fully colonized
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8131270 - 03/11/08 10:49 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah... for the longest time I grew outdoor, as that is how I learned to do it first.. then I bought the mushroom cultivator.. OMG.. what a fucking book... it taught me soo much, and I still had a friend (who lived in Wa at the time) give me a hand...
before I built my martha, I would just run 1 cool mist between 4 tubs with pumice in the bottom... I would usually have 2 or 3 of these setups going at the same time when I was younger... that worked great.. actually, it was the best setup I had before I did the martha.. now I am a martha only guy.. I love it... nothing beats waking up the morning of harvest, and just looking inside to see a clear box with shelves holding all of my friends... its simply great...
I do miss growing outside, though.. when we were kids we actually managed to get a patch of liberty caps started in Wa., right around the corner from where i lived.. came back next year, and holy shit.. lets just say, it was a fun winter...
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131276 - 03/11/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: THANKS!!! I knew some one else who was an experienced hand would come in and co-sign... glad to see someone knows a thing or two about a thing or two...
no offense to anyone else... for sure READ before posting info you think you know.. please... it makes it soo much harder for noobs when there is so much misinformation floating around..
and if you use those casings and get great results, great.. do not change a thing.. I was just simply clarifying what a casing layer is for the young chap who asked why no nutes in the casing... thats all
no one is spreading misinformation
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131278 - 03/11/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..
and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...
potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....
Edited by DJYoshaBYD (03/11/08 10:54 AM)
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131288 - 03/11/08 10:55 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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so if your growing through the casing then how are you getting your pin set... are you patching? do you put the casing layer on wait then patch?
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
#8131290 - 03/11/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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coir tub WITHOUT a casing layer...
no casing layer works fine also:
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131291 - 03/11/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..
and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...
potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....
that last statement is misinformation
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131294 - 03/11/08 10:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said:
Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..
and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...
potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....
that last statement is misinformation
i don't know, coir is weird, i've had it do the same thing from clone wedge.
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8131301 - 03/11/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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if you think growth of a mushrooms and potency of mushrooms are completley genetic... u need to lay off the weed.... hell you just experienced it first hand
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131307 - 03/11/08 11:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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no.. basically I lay the casing on the sub, and incubate for 1 day.. then I set it in the fruiting chamber.. in this case, a martha...
the majority of the pins form INSIDE the casing layer... you wont see them until they poke out... the formation of hyphal knots and primordia is all done within the casing, then once they are starting to mature, they start growing out... that is one of the way you get a great pinset... it also helps protect the primordia from any big drips that come off of anything..
in my opinion, if you have to patch the casing to cover the myc, its been colonized too much.. again, many will argue this point, but this is my experience...
but nevertheless, your casing layer should be bbaarrreeelly colonized, if that, and pins should mostly form within the casing layer.. not on it..
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131320 - 03/11/08 11:04 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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wow.. you so didnt listen to what I just said..
nutes wont make the strength go up in a particular sub strain (as in an isolate, like I have).. but if they lack the nutes that myc used in the first flush to make the same potency, then they wont do it again.. adding hella nutes to your sub DOES NOT increase potency in any SUB STRAIN.. it is 100% genetic how strong they get, and its all about nutes when they loose it on the second flush...
I am a very experienced grower, and you are asking ME questions, and you just dont like the answers that I am giving you.. dont ask me if you do not like what answer I give you.. and I love weed... haha
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131325 - 03/11/08 11:06 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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ive used 100% verm and it was real blotchy on the pinset back in the old rez effect days. thats what the tek called for though ...just to throw it in the fc after you put it all together. was really happy with the results but the pinset wasn't fantastic.
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131335 - 03/11/08 11:08 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol rez effect...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131345 - 03/11/08 11:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah.. its just like LC.. it just takes time to learn how to lay it out and give it the right moisture to carry it through the 1st flush.. its just like with anything.. It just takes a while to learn how and when to moisten the casing layer this way.. again.. that is why so many cats add moss to verm for casing, because it changes color slightly when try, indicating that it needs to be misted.. thats all its for...
It works great for me, but I have also perfected this tek over the years, so yeah...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131351 - 03/11/08 11:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I could swear I saw a thread a few weeks ago debating about that shit too... damn.. dated info is funny..
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131356 - 03/11/08 11:12 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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just conversation i guess... your talkin about potency which is of great intrest to me theres no doubt that ur experinced... im not tryin to put u down i just strongly disagree....
i thought u just said it was genetic... then the amount of nutes should not matter on the 2nd flush right? cause if they can go down shouldn't they increase as well?
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131370 - 03/11/08 11:18 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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no.. the myc has a potency "peak", if you will, for the sub strain.. with any given sub strain, it can only be so strong.. but when its expecting 10 parts nutes, and it only gets 4, you can see how the myc wouldnt be working at peak capacity...
think of a mug of beer... there is only so much delicious beer you can fit in the mug... its great and smooth from top to bottom... its working at peak efficiency for the mug...
but take half that beer away from every mug you drink... still should be as potent, as its still the same size, and the same beer, but there is half the beer.. less beer, less drunk...
its the same thing.. kinda.. lol.. I wanna a beer
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131458 - 03/11/08 11:42 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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damn.. I thought someone would have found that analogy amusing...
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
#8131617 - 03/11/08 12:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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30 grams of fresh mushrooms is like.. nothing
it'd prolly weigh out dry at like 2.5gs
you won't trip off of 3 grams if you've tripped recently
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8131645 - 03/11/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah i wanna beer too its almost that time.....
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8131702 - 03/11/08 12:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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it wasnt just me.. you didnt read the post either.. cats who havent tripped in years ate them and laughed.. lol.. I did to, as I felt like a jackass...
Im sorry, but anybody who hasnt tripped recently, and eats 2 grams should feel something... the simple fact is, that 30 grams wet is enough for most people to have a decent trip.. no this time.. I got it covered now... thanks for the input...
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DJYoshaBYD


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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131710 - 03/11/08 12:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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its been that time all morning.. haha... just cant seem to get anyone up off their lazy ass to have one with me... shit... im buying, and still no one wakes up.. my friends are lazy as fuck...
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8131720 - 03/11/08 12:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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actually i did read the post/s
but my point is, 30 grams wet isn't enough for just about anyone to trip man
it's like this, in all truth your stomach really can't even digest mushrooms so when you eat 30 grams of fresh mushrooms, which seems like alot, because it is alot to eat (practically a full meal) prolly about half of it gets PROCESSED (not digested, so there is alot wasted) in an hour, which would be about a grams worth (not enough to trip).
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8131883 - 03/11/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Coir lacks in Nitrogen, supposedly the thing that helps boost potency. I don't buy it. The only reason people do use coir is because of it's moisture capacity. It lacks in nitrogen.
*Coco Coir has some anti-fungal properties that help plants to get rid of soil borne diseases. It inhibits pathogens like Pithium.
*Contains significant amounts of phosphorous (10-50ppm) and potassium (150-450 ppm).
*The compressed medium expands eight to nine times, rewetting is easier than peat without the addition of any wetting agents.
*The nitrogen draw down index for coir is lower than most composted materials.
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8131937 - 03/11/08 01:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchOi said: 30 grams of fresh mushrooms is like.. nothing
it'd prolly weigh out dry at like 2.5gs
you won't trip off of 3 grams if you've tripped recently
dude, u guys r growing weeek ass shrooms,
my peoples r getting off on 1gram or less.. WTF?
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8131944 - 03/11/08 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: Coir lacks in Nitrogen, supposedly the thing that helps boost potency. I don't buy it. The only reason people do use coir is because of it's moisture capacity. It lacks in nitrogen.
*Coco Coir has some anti-fungal properties that help plants to get rid of soil borne diseases. It inhibits pathogens like Pithium.
*Contains significant amounts of phosphorous (10-50ppm) and potassium (150-450 ppm).
*The compressed medium expands eight to nine times, rewetting is easier than peat without the addition of any wetting agents.
*The nitrogen draw down index for coir is lower than most composted materials.
dumbfounded, when you buy coir from a hydroponics shop you get those listings, when you buy coir from the pet store, it's a different type...
i think i stated in my way back post, that if you add LOTS OF (N) containing byproducts, you wont lack in anything.
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8131947 - 03/11/08 01:44 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchOi said: actually i did read the post/s
but my point is, 30 grams wet isn't enough for just about anyone to trip man
it's like this, in all truth your stomach really can't even digest mushrooms so when you eat 30 grams of fresh mushrooms, which seems like alot, because it is alot to eat (practically a full meal) prolly about half of it gets PROCESSED (not digested, so there is alot wasted) in an hour, which would be about a grams worth (not enough to trip).
bullshit, i was an "erasure head" last year, and i wigged absolute nuts off 15grams of WET shrooms, u guys, are growing, weeeeek assss shrooms.. like i said.
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8131950 - 03/11/08 01:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol, people usually trip on a half eigth or less of mine but that's because i use cow poo now
but when i was growing from cakes, etc the potency was probably alot less and i had trouble tripping on up to 50gs
but to be honest, i don't eat them fresh anymore and haven't since my first or second grow
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8131952 - 03/11/08 01:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah my poo shrooms r way more potent. but still, my coir shrooms r the diggity too. but i add a lot of (N)
:P
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8131999 - 03/11/08 01:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Doc uses coir for a casing layer all the time and you cant debate the sucess of his grows.
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: blood4blood]
#8132014 - 03/11/08 02:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Once again. It's just moisture related.
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8132016 - 03/11/08 02:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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You can do 100% casing of coir but you'd have to watch it carefully and make sure it doesn't overlap it. What's the point of a casing if it gets colonized anyways?
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8132027 - 03/11/08 02:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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dont let it colonize. i dont. after my sub is 110% colonized i apply a casing layer and it goes directly into fruiting. myc only pokes through just a little bit right when the flush comes in.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: blood4blood]
#8132031 - 03/11/08 02:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.
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shroober
Myco Junkie


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8132060 - 03/11/08 02:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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dumbfounded, you seem to know so much about coir, have you ever even used it?
regardless of what you say coir has proven to create astonishing results time after time. its recommended to mix it with a supplement such as coffee or blood meal or compost but it is a valuable substrate ingredient especially for those that don't have access to horse poo.
have you ever actually cultivated mushrooms?
here's my experience using coir with cow manure (another substrate some say to be lacking)
Edited by shroober (03/11/08 02:18 PM)
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shroober]
#8132329 - 03/11/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cow manure has more nutrition then horse manure and coir. I'm not doubting coir. I'm just saying, same thing with straw, the only reason people use it it's because of it's moisture capacity.
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8132643 - 03/11/08 04:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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thats false. the only reason i use straw is for potency.. the shrooms grow fine with the poo....
know one has any solid facts about the potency some people say its genetic and only genetic but i assure u that is not true... im not a freakin scientist or anything but what i do know is that ive eaten the fruits on many different substrates and many different setups fae and all..... these are the factors that come into play though... light, temperature, genetics,substrate, fae,it has to do with all of these things.. not just one.
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Tomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8132683 - 03/11/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: You can do 100% casing of coir but you'd have to watch it carefully and make sure it doesn't overlap it. What's the point of a casing if it gets colonized anyways?
overlay should be the last thing on ur mind... been on these boards for awhile now and only seen real cases maybe a few times and the grower normally still got a decent flush....
the point of the casing is to produce a nice pinset so ur flush will come up all at once and also to provide moisture through the flush
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#8133543 - 03/11/08 07:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said: thats false. the only reason i use straw is for potency.. the shrooms grow fine with the poo....
know one has any solid facts about the potency some people say its genetic and only genetic but i assure u that is not true... im not a freakin scientist or anything but what i do know is that ive eaten the fruits on many different substrates and many different setups fae and all..... these are the factors that come into play though... light, temperature, genetics,substrate, fae,it has to do with all of these things.. not just one.
Please. Straw contains half of what nutrition of manure. The only reason why people use straw is for moisture, that's why they grow so giant. You are right, once the mushroom grows. The actives grow and stretch out, but it doesn't grow at all. You can have a 20 mg of actives in a 30g mushroom, as it gets bigger it's gets to 60g. You'll still only have 20mg of actives.
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jeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8135896 - 03/12/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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This thread is full of so much miss information it's pathetic
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smokedout420
The EnlightenedOne



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 484
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8135940 - 03/12/08 08:59 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jeetered said: This thread is full of so much miss information it's pathetic
thats why you should post ur tek
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
#8136074 - 03/12/08 09:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Please. Jeetered is one of the sadest bulk cultivators in here. He only is liked because of his moisture related yields. No scientific backing, only what works for him. He downs RR so much when RR shits on his teks.
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jeetered
Stranger



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8136182 - 03/12/08 10:25 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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dumbfounded you're an idiot.. why r u flaming, i've pulled your body weight ten times over in dry fruits.. so stfu. Water laden shrooms? I hardly doubt it.
You shouldn't speak for people, I ask that RogerRabbit come here and say "Jeetered, I SHIT ON YOUR TEKS and GROWS !"" so it comes out of HIS MOUTH, not yours,
again, miss information. You should be muzzled.
Do these look "water laden"








dumbfounded your gallery is pretty weak, back your claims up dude.
Edited by jeetered (03/12/08 10:35 AM)
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jeetered
Stranger



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shroober]
#8136215 - 03/12/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroober said: dumbfounded, you seem to know so much about coir, have you ever even used it?
regardless of what you say coir has proven to create astonishing results time after time. its recommended to mix it with a supplement such as coffee or blood meal or compost but it is a valuable substrate ingredient especially for those that don't have access to horse poo.
have you ever actually cultivated mushrooms?
here's my experience using coir with cow manure (another substrate some say to be lacking)
yeah mixing coir and hpoo rocks the boat too man. cow manure is my next thing to try, all my attempts at cow manure have been a muddy MESS!!!!
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8136252 - 03/12/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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think about how gay you guys are
you're on the internet, on possibly the furthest corner of the planet because this is SUPER DUPER SECRET
and you're all like I AM HARDCORE BECAUSE I HAVE THESE INCRIMINATING PICTUREZ!
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jeetered
Stranger



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8136259 - 03/12/08 10:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchOi said: think about how gay you guys are
you're on the internet, on possibly the furthest corner of the planet because this is SUPER DUPER SECRET
and you're all like I AM HARDCORE BECAUSE I HAVE THESE INCRIMINATING PICTUREZ!
then we jerk it to porn and suck on our jenkem straws and then play WOW!!!!!
LIKE OMFG!
how gay r u
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shroober
Myco Junkie


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8136271 - 03/12/08 10:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jeetered said:
yeah mixing coir and hpoo rocks the boat too man. cow manure is my next thing to try, all my attempts at cow manure have been a muddy MESS!!!!
i had that same issue at first too, lots of verm will fix that though, especially if you are mixing the cow poo with something like coir or straw
lately i've been using straw/poo as opposed to coir/poo because its much cheaper, still waiting on results though so im not sure if i will stick with it yet
sorry for hijacking this thread
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8136277 - 03/12/08 10:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jeetered said:
Quote:
shroober said: dumbfounded, you seem to know so much about coir, have you ever even used it?
regardless of what you say coir has proven to create astonishing results time after time. its recommended to mix it with a supplement such as coffee or blood meal or compost but it is a valuable substrate ingredient especially for those that don't have access to horse poo.
have you ever actually cultivated mushrooms?
here's my experience using coir with cow manure (another substrate some say to be lacking)
yeah mixing coir and hpoo rocks the boat too man. cow manure is my next thing to try, all my attempts at cow manure have been a muddy MESS!!!!
why a muddy mess?
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shroober
Myco Junkie


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 879
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi] 1
#8136288 - 03/12/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchOi said: think about how gay you guys are
you're on the internet, on possibly the furthest corner of the planet because this is SUPER DUPER SECRET
and you're all like I AM HARDCORE BECAUSE I HAVE THESE INCRIMINATING PICTUREZ!
hahahahah, you should take your own advice
anarchOi's Gallery
(I'm sure he will take them down in a few minutes)
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



Registered: 08/06/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shroober]
#8136304 - 03/12/08 10:56 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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i found those on google >.>
anyway, if you want to beef up your coir (literally) i would suggest cow poo and verm for the easiest
and if you wanna get to it, i might suggest tinkering with blood meal and bone meal you'll need to do some pH testing though
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Edited by anarchOi (03/12/08 11:00 AM)
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8137255 - 03/12/08 02:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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grind your bones and put them in my coir?
ok... /me gets out bone saw.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8148690 - 03/15/08 08:37 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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o yeah.. and about me growing weak ass shrooms.. you DID NOT read through here, because if you did, you would see I said 30 grams WET.. not DRY.... and Im sorry.. all my friends get their dicks knocked in the dirt after eating 20 wet grams of mine... so yeah...
and yeah... I just got a SAVAGE flush just like I always do using 100% verm for my casings.. for the last time... THIS IS WHAT IS USE, AND IT WORKS GREAT.. im not doubting other methods, but as I have stated MULTI times, 100% verm in THE DEF. OF A CASING.. end of story... its what I use, and thats it...
and alot of you are just spouting off info that is not true... you are right, man... wwwaaaayyyy too much misinformation getting spread on this thread... can I have it locked? lol
soooo yeah... when every one is done waving their weeners everywhere, lets talk about the qp I just pulled off of 100% coir and 100% verm casing... it was 4 casings, and I got a oz off of each one.. I added another casing at the last minute... but yeah.. here goes the experiment:
Im going to take these casings and dunk them for a 2nd flush... im going to boil a bunch of spent coffee grounds and let the water cool, and dunk all 4 casings in the coffee water and see if I can get more nutes replenished in there.. why not? if they are out of nutes, then the next flush will suck like before, and they will get tossed anyway... THAT IS WHY I AM DOING AN EXPERIMENT LIKE THIS.. DO NOT START FLAMING BECAUSE YOU SAY IT WONT WORK.. ITS AN EEXXXPPPEERRRIIIMMMEEENNNTTTT.....
Hopefully we shall see some good results.. another fat flush, and good potency as well... **crosses fingers**
it doesnt really matter though if it does or not, as I just bought a pc and some wbs so I can start making wbs spawn again... my personal favorite.. hehehe... so now it wont be too long before the next one...
wish me luck, and I will post the results...
again.. if you have nothing constructive to say on the matter, then pm it to that person.. dont post it.. constructive criticism only
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8148698 - 03/15/08 08:43 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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AND FOR THE LAST TIME... NUTES DO NOT AFFECT PEAK POTENCY!! LACK OF NUTES DOES!!
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8148699 - 03/15/08 08:43 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good luck, keep up the hard work.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shevanel]
#8148713 - 03/15/08 08:49 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanks.. Im hella diggin coir.. its one of the best subs I have ever used, and the 1st flush on this is unreal.. huge fruits, strong (they are an iso), and the grow fully mature in about 7 days... im for sure doing a 5050 or so mix of coir and coffee.. I know that will help for at least three flushes... 2 would make me 100% satisfied.. that would make, based on this time, about 8 oz's dry, over 2 flushes, in 2 weeks, from start of pinning to pulling the 2nd flush... that is just wonderful.. haha
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shevanel
Gone til November



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#8148724 - 03/15/08 08:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe you can give me some tips on my invitro bag c/c/v I posted a thread
I got a little frustrated with coir.. with getting it to f-cap. I started adding verm and it seems to be colonizing better on the new bags I made.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shevanel]
#8148731 - 03/15/08 08:56 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Chill the fuck out everyone. What's with all this noob talk of substrate vs potency anyway??? Experienced growers have noted for years that multispore grows will have potency that is all over board, from none to extreme, regardless of substrate, strain, or growing conditions.
Nutes are for plants. Blood meal and bone meal are PLANT foods. Prior to arguing, please learn the difference between fungi and plants. This is like trying to argue that your car tire went flat because you're late for an oil change. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8148870 - 03/15/08 09:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Chill the fuck out everyone. What's with all this noob talk of substrate vs potency anyway??? Experienced growers have noted for years that multispore grows will have potency that is all over board, from none to extreme, regardless of substrate, strain, or growing conditions.
Nutes are for plants. Blood meal and bone meal are PLANT foods. Prior to arguing, please learn the difference between fungi and plants. This is like trying to argue that your car tire went flat because you're late for an oil change. RR
My oil light came on after a rotate and balance, wtf?
it's about (n) not nutes. And again RR, i disagree, if nutrition wasn't needed, then why aren't we growing on styrofoam? (other then it doesn't decompose, considering fungi is a secondary decomposer)
I think the word "nutrition" is being used for lack of a better word for something like "Poop takes longer to decompose then coir".. it's not nutrion, it's "degradable materials"
i just can't think of a word for it.
Edited by jeetered (03/15/08 10:05 AM)
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jeetered
Stranger



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: shevanel]
#8148875 - 03/15/08 10:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: Maybe you can give me some tips on my invitro bag c/c/v I posted a thread
I got a little frustrated with coir.. with getting it to f-cap. I started adding verm and it seems to be colonizing better on the new bags I made.
coir bags and monotub:



(no casing layer on tub but verm mixed into coir with plenty of coffee, malt, karo, verm, calc carb, etc.. even boiled down non alc beer) (plenty of (N)% )
Edited by jeetered (03/15/08 10:01 AM)
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



Registered: 08/06/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8149897 - 03/15/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Nutes are for plants. Blood meal and bone meal are PLANT foods. Prior to arguing, please learn the difference between fungi and plants. This is like trying to argue that your car tire went flat because you're late for an oil change. RR
Blood meal and Bone meal both contain high levels of nitrogen, making them a great additive to any substrate if you're trying to up the nitrogren
Might i remind you that manure is more of a plant food than it is a fungi food Isn't that why we pretend we're gardeners looking for fertilizer?
Are you saying that mushrooms don't need nutrients? i don't understand... Why don't we just grow on shredded cardboard?
Have you never heard of oyster mushrooms killing nematoads and grubs for their source of nitrogen?
Bone meal doesn't have nearly as much nitrogen as Blood meal, but Bone Meal contains high levels of phosphorus, i mean maybe i'm crazy, but since mushrooms contain such high levels of phosphorus, seems like it would aid growth.
No offense, but i think it's more like saying your tire went flat cuz you hit the pothole, when really it just knocked the nail out of your tire.
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Edited by anarchOi (03/15/08 03:15 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8152587 - 03/16/08 08:17 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Manure is not a plant food. Plants have no direct use for manure. Manure feeds the soil, and then organisms in the soil, such as fungi break it down, creating 'plant food'. Blood and bone meal also have no benefit to fungi in my experience. I still fail to see why we'd want to increase the nitrogen levels of a substrate such as manure or coir, which perform exactly the same whether blood meal is added or not. People still seem to think mycelium is some sort of plant that needs to be 'fertilized', when in reality mycelium creates fertilizer from manure, coir, newspapers, cardboard, etc. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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smokedout420
The EnlightenedOne



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 484
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
#8152641 - 03/16/08 08:51 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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dude jeet post ur tek.
Quote:
jeetered said:
coir bags and monotub:



(no casing layer on tub but verm mixed into coir with plenty of coffee, malt, karo, verm, calc carb, etc.. even boiled down non alc beer) (plenty of (N)% )
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anarchOi
Ellenalien is fat.



Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 2,293
Loc: ASE
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
#8152713 - 03/16/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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i just figured you'd assume it was composted manure which plants do have direct use for
i'm not trying to say that fungi is a plant i'm just trying to say that we should look down on anything we know is "plant food" because of some ridiculous idea that they can't possibly eat the same things
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Edited by anarchOi (03/16/08 09:27 AM)
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jeetered
Stranger



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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: anarchOi]
#8152841 - 03/16/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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again, terms are being used loosely..
anything that consumes something is consuming "nutrients"
even fungi consumes..
as far as posting teks, im done with that..
im still awaiting RR to back up the statements that my "grows and teks" are shit, and simply waterlogged fruits..
lollerpops.
Recent COIR experiences:
some monsters on the coir bag, in a clump. (5th flush)


and i used to SLAM coir and say it was worthless as a substrate, and it was more of a casing layer,
NOW, i say "it's worthless as a casing layer, because it's a substrate. LOLLERPOPS x 2

day 4:

Edited by jeetered (03/18/08 12:52 PM)
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