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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
    #8131133 - 03/11/08 10:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I dont case with anything but 100% straight verm.. its all I have ever used, and I have tried others, but this works the best.. for me anyway...

i have hella used coffee grounds from my girls work.. Im going to sterilize that and add it to the coir on the next grow for sure.. Im hoping that it will at least bring the pleasures of a potent 2nd flush... or it will just eat all the nutes in the 1st, and I will have supermushy... haha

im going to go around 7030 or 6040 for the coir/coffee, as I have alot and need to do something with it... it will at least add more sub that I can put in trays in and fill my martha.. its only half full right now, as I dont have any spawn... just a master jar... but im taking care of that this weekend... time to go buy some quart jars and a pc and some wbs... need more spawn fast.. haha...

so yeah.. like I said.. Im going to try and boil some coffee, strain it, and soak it in the coffee water to dunk... if it doesnt work, oh well... got more coming and will have a great first flush at least...

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131150 - 03/11/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

it seems by the second flush you should already have something new to put in the fruiting chamber. i would just toss it... start fresh... and just to let ya know a 60/40 verm coir casing works great.

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8131179 - 03/11/08 10:17 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

A casing should have no nutes.. the only reason cats use verm and peat is so they know when to moisten the casings... coir should be 100% non nutritious... period..

If you know how to prepare straight verm right, then it works great... my casing is not the problem.. I never get contams, and it holds all its moisture all the way through the 1st flush... a dunk, and a light misting of the casing brings it back to field cap..

I case with what casing actually should be... thats why I dont use anything but straight verm, as I know how to control the moisture content throughout the grow... I know alot of cats us verm somthing mixes for casing, but I do not, and for good reason..

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131184 - 03/11/08 10:20 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

oh yeah.. and you never case with a substrate... coir is used to grow on, not case with it...

you can do a search and find a nice thread between RR and some other cat, about the fact that coir is fffaaarrrr more suitable for a sub then a casing...

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131195 - 03/11/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
A casing should have no nutes.. the only reason cats use verm and peat is so they know when to moisten the casings... coir should be 100% non nutritious... period..

If you know how to prepare straight verm right, then it works great... my casing is not the problem.. I never get contams, and it holds all its moisture all the way through the 1st flush... a dunk, and a light misting of the casing brings it back to field cap..

I case with what casing actually should be... thats why I dont use anything but straight verm, as I know how to control the moisture content throughout the grow... I know alot of cats us verm somthing mixes for casing, but I do not, and for good reason..




why shouldn't it have nutes?

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8131204 - 03/11/08 10:27 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

i can tell you that just cause some cat said it... its not always the best method or the only method...even if they are rr.. been casing with 60/40 verm coir since i started casing ... and it works great..

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8131210 - 03/11/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

because by definition, a casing is a non nutritious layer to hold moisture and create a microclimate for pinning... having nutes in the casing tends to cause overlay more, especially with coir... if you ever look at my casings, you will see almost no myc poking out, just lots and lots of mushies... You DO NOT want the casing layer to colonize.. a lil is fine, but you want it to be very easy for the mushies to grow through... a colonized casing layer doesnt do that.. they grow ON the casing instead of THROUGH the casing..

that is why you want no nutes.. a proper casing should have no my sticking out, just lots of mushies... :smile:

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8131212 - 03/11/08 10:33 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

a casing layer is a "contam barrier" not a substrate, only a substrate should be nutritious. A casing layer that contains nutritious matter, will only invite contamination, which all of us know, we don't want, Verm being inorganic and inert, totally avoids this, in fact, verm doesnt even have to be sterilized or pasteurized.

That is why straight Verm works wonderfully. If you know what you are doing, and have an eye for moisture content of verm, then you will be successful using it.

Coir is not a casing layer, it is a substrate, this is absolutely correct.. Why? because it's nutritious.

either way, a casing layer , whatever method you choose to use, THAT WORKS FOR YOU, has no bearing on potency.
I like to think that potency is simply genetic, and subsequent flushes play no part in weather or not a shroom is potent.. however, I have found with coir, if your nitrogen content isn't up to par, then you won't have potent subsequent flushes, I can only say this from experience, and no cold hard data.. This is why, when I pasteurize coir, I add lots of malt, lots of karo, lots of coffee, 2 cans of non alcoholic beer boiled down, and some calc carb.. as well as add verm to it.

I can only say, that the more nutes you add, the longer it's going to flush, and the more potency (possibly) per subsequent flush.

now, more then just one person has made this claim..
Im here to back up the OP's claims on this same matter.

peace.

I didn't start cultivating until i was 19, and im 33 now, so go figure.

Edited by jeetered (03/11/08 10:38 AM)

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131217 - 03/11/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Im not stating something I heard.. Im stating truth.. and I have tried all different types of casing layers.. and straight verm is the one for me..

THE ONLY REASON THAT CATS USE OTHER STUFF IN THE CASING, IS SO THEY CAN SEE THE COLOR CHANGE WHEN IT GETS DRY AND THEN THEY KNOW WHEN TO MIST THEIR CASING... THATS IT..

you can do a search on this stuff, as it has been beaten to death over the years, by me, and quite a few other cats... you gotta remember.. I have been doing this since I was 14 and Im 23 now, so I have heard all the old stories and teks long before I hit this site...

look up the definition of a casing layer, and prove me wrong.. lol

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131230 - 03/11/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

THANKS!!! I knew some one else who was an experienced hand would come in and co-sign... glad to see someone knows a thing or two about a thing or two...

no offense to anyone else... for sure READ before posting info you think you know.. please... it makes it soo much harder for noobs when there is so much misinformation floating around..

and if you use those casings and get great results, great.. do not change a thing.. I was just simply clarifying what a casing layer is for the young chap who asked why no nutes in the casing... thats all

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131232 - 03/11/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

it makes all the difference just having years of experience... Im glad I started early... haha

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131245 - 03/11/08 10:43 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I have taken friends that have never even known that it could be done, and brought them up to my level in two months, lucky for them, they didn't have to start out transplanting found dung piles of cubes into their homes, or to their compost bins, to taking prints, to pftek, to whatever it is we do now, hell, i find hydr0420's invitro poo bag tek ingenius for bulk growing, it's simple, fast, and foolproof, same with ohmatic's monotubs. That's the only two ways i grow.

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131261 - 03/11/08 10:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

i guess everyone has his or her way.. funny how that works huh..... i see no problem with nutes in the casing layer though.... as long as there is adequate fae you should not have to worry about contams

but i do think the statement jeets made up there about the casing layer not having any effects on potency is wrong... the shrooms are going to pull nutrients from the casing as well as the sub even if its not fully colonized

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: jeetered]
    #8131270 - 03/11/08 10:49 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

yeah... for the longest time I grew outdoor, as that is how I learned to do it first.. then I bought the mushroom cultivator.. OMG.. what a fucking book... it taught me soo much, and I still had a friend (who lived in Wa at the time) give me a hand...

before I built my martha, I would just run 1 cool mist between 4 tubs with pumice in the bottom... I would usually have 2 or 3 of these setups going at the same time when I was younger... that worked great.. actually, it was the best setup I had before I did the martha.. now I am a martha only guy.. I love it... nothing beats waking up the morning of harvest, and just looking inside to see a clear box with shelves holding all of my friends... its simply great...

I do miss growing outside, though.. when we were kids we actually managed to get a patch of liberty caps started in Wa., right around the corner from where i lived.. came back next year, and holy shit.. lets just say, it was a fun winter...

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131276 - 03/11/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
THANKS!!! I knew some one else who was an experienced hand would come in and co-sign... glad to see someone knows a thing or two about a thing or two...

no offense to anyone else... for sure READ before posting info you think you know.. please... it makes it soo much harder for noobs when there is so much misinformation floating around..

and if you use those casings and get great results, great.. do not change a thing.. I was just simply clarifying what a casing layer is for the young chap who asked why no nutes in the casing... thats all




no one is spreading misinformation

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131278 - 03/11/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..

and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...

potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....

Edited by DJYoshaBYD (03/11/08 10:54 AM)

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131288 - 03/11/08 10:55 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

so if your growing through the casing then how are you getting your pin set... are you patching? do you put the casing layer on wait then patch?

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: smokedout420]
    #8131290 - 03/11/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

coir tub WITHOUT a casing layer...


no casing layer works fine also:


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #8131291 - 03/11/08 10:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..

and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...

potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....




that last statement is misinformation

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: MAJOR loss of potnecy on the 2nd flush on coir [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #8131294 - 03/11/08 10:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

preschooler said:
Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
thats the thing.. you DO NOT want it getting nutes from the casing... if it needs more nutes, you add to the sub..

and again, strength is genetic... the only reason you would loose strength like I did, is because all the nutes were used on the first flush, and diminished because of lack of food on the second... the casing will become colonized, and yes, it will get some nutes, but it will also make it harder for the mush to get through it, creating a shitty pinset, among other things...

potency doesnt increase with nutes, but it sure as shit can go down without them....




that last statement is misinformation




i don't know, coir is weird, i've had it do the same thing from clone wedge.

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