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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123083 - 03/09/08 11:34 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

well,
we know that the use of an entheogen or psychedelic is going to make an impact on consciousness.
we also know that the impact it makes is not really different than the impact that dreaming and emotional stress (a range of neurological symptoms can also be included in the list of mental state changes, or altered consciousness).
i.e it is natural but unnatural.

we also know that lsd and some other psychedelics are much less toxic than alcohol and more entertaining.

so it is a perpetrator of shifts in natural mental states
and yet it is conveniently artificial and availiable to the tripper.

when the tripper trips the journey should be evidence of the naturally altered state of mind or mode of consciousness. It should be possible to chart the altered terrain without trying to make it apply to a more normal state or baseline state of mind.

while charting these states, the saying
"all is one" can be very poignant and meaningful especially while the tripper is observing the pervasive nature of motifs in his mind - caused by the extended trails of holographic thought forms.

afterwards the meaning can be delusionally applied to irrelevant meaning maps. such "hippie rants" are as common and obnoxious as someone looking for Chechnya in Kansas and being very insistent about it, maaaan....

the map making or insight about mental states has to happen while under the influence, and the archiving and analysis of it has to be made in context of it being a map of an altered state, not another thing.

That being said, I must admit that I have had innumerable insights that were evading my normal consciousness after some spike of one form or another (including solutions to math problems, computer programming etc.), which may be more about shifting out of a rigid attitude than about being entheogenically exposed to a more "universal mind" or god or something.

I would say it is very good medicine for this.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8123095 - 03/09/08 11:39 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

People who feel the need to proove something to others, are serving only they're ego, they want external aprooval!




People like Einstein, Newton, Tesla, Marconi, Edison, Curie, Faraday, Fermi were all just a bunch of egotistical losers?

Now please transmit your silly message without stepping on the back of giants who actually accomplished something using proofs.

Great inquiring minds seek to understand.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8123101 - 03/09/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Yeah, but is the white knight really talking backwards?


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InvisibleHumble lurker
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123152 - 03/09/08 12:00 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I frequently hear claims of ESP, TK, God, life-after-death, soul, etc.




Maybe you should stop hanging out with new age hippy shroom heads then?:grin:

Why do you care so much if people want to have a fantasy?  If someone wants to believe something then they will.  You can't change them by relentlessly posing about it here.:strokebeard:


Personally I like to hear the odd story of esp etc I don't have to believe it or disbelieve it.  Its just an interesting story.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: Humble lurker]
    #8123212 - 03/09/08 12:32 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Why do you care so much if people want to have a fantasy?




Jonestown Massacre, Heaven's Gate mass suicide, The War on Drugs, the Iraq War and a zillion other examples of fucked up results based upon an erroneous belief system and/or lack of critical thinking.

Big or small: Garbage in -> Garbage out.

Why do I care that human-kind advances out of the dark ages of ignorance? What do YOU think?


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123296 - 03/09/08 01:10 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

People who feel the need to proove something to others, are serving only they're ego, they want external aprooval!




People like Einstein, Newton, Tesla, Marconi, Edison, Curie, Faraday, Fermi were all just a bunch of egotistical losers?

Now please transmit your silly message without stepping on the back of giants who actually accomplished something using proofs.

Great inquiring minds seek to understand.






I didnt say they were losers at all, but they were still trying to proove something to everyone else, because they beleived it, im not saying its wrong, im not saying egos even wrong. We all have egos!

Im just stating a fact, the need to prove things to others is the ego needing to show "i am right, you are wrong", it can also be done for the good of all so can have little ego involved, i didn't call people with egos losers, if so every being is a loser and i certianly dont think that.

Im just saying people feel things so much they need to impose theyre beliefs on others, as everyone in this forum does, alot of the time this can stem from them needing to prove it to themselves. Thats all im saying.

I have a great inquiring mind and seek to understand, as do you, im just more open to the mystical truth, you the science.

They both reach the same place one just takes thousands if not millions of years longer to get there.

Your a test for all of us OC you really are, thankyou.

:tongue:


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Edited by Chronic7 (03/09/08 01:18 PM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8123362 - 03/09/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Your a test for all of us OC you really are




You are the Shroomery Spokesperson? Not everyone here views my writing as a 'test'


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123467 - 03/09/08 02:09 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Its really not very complicated. If you experience something and treat is as a valid personal perception, you cannot be wrong. If you experience something and believe it is a universally accessible or overriding perception, you can get into a lot of trouble.

If I find that taking a certain drug causes me to experience a talking praying mantis, I may now decide that I enjoy seeing that Mantis and listening to what he has to say, or I may decide that I find this particular perception to be without value.

In either case, I am not "wrong", I simply acknowledge something I have experienced and form a judgment about the enjoyability or utility of that perception.

Admittedly many people come to believe that their particular perceptions, dreams, visions ideas etc either A. will be visible to all others who are not somehow inferior or B. Give them an overriding moral authority that allows them to trespass on the rights of others.

And of course I agree with you entirely that neither A nor B represents a sound position. However position C, defined as "the knowledge that one has access to a wide variety of perceptions and perceptual modes, and the techniques to induce and control them at will" represents a position that has both intellectual integrity and practical utility.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123474 - 03/09/08 02:11 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Yeah, but is the white knight really talking backwards?



it depends which nite you are talking about
you may have had a different experience than I
- for me the whole day goes backwards (time gets royally f*cked)
this is hugely comforting in a weird way.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8123519 - 03/09/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I think the effect of psychedelics on the brain are a fascinating way to view its inner circuitry. I never realized it until I took a huge dose of acid, but I see the universe as having a personality. I don't know if the universe actually has a personality, but it is and always has been a tendency of my brain to lump together the millions of signals I receive from it into a single cohesive personality. Other, more specific (you might say archetypal) forces of personality exist, all of which I interact with on a daily basis. It's all part of the larger whole.

Do the grand unity, or the conscious archetypes I perceive, "really" exist? They certainly exist in my mind, and influence my thoughts on a daily basis. I like to think that ideas are universal, and so the God someone else knows is fundamentally the same as my grand unity but with a lot of differences, obviously due to personal experiences and personal brain chemistry. I think it's interesting that these ideas have been silently wired into my cognitive functioning even when I called myself an atheist. Psychedelics are good for exploring the very edges of your ontological perspective, regardless of whether you choose to invalidate the beliefs of others with what you find. I also find the writings of ancient mystics more comprehensible, though it would serve everybody to remember that they are just that: ancient. Knowledge that is truly timeless speaks for itself; it's painful to see the fluff used to justify highly specific personal perspectives being sold off as absolute truth.

Edited by Tchan909 (03/09/08 03:01 PM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8123602 - 03/09/08 03:01 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Lots of thoughtful replies in this thread. :thumbup:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: How are psychedelic journeys evidence of anything? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8125819 - 03/09/08 11:30 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Wow, excellent post, Tchan! I feel very much the same say. :thumbup:

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