|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Derk
Friend



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 272
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Why do you use tyvek when you just....
#8112347 - 03/06/08 05:54 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Poke a hole through it to inoculate? Isn't that defeating the purpose?
|
Frost000
Badfish

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8112401 - 03/06/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
That would be defeating the purpose. Cover it with micropore tape or a bandaid.
|
uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8112453 - 03/06/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I use grain (wbs) jars with a single 3/8" hole stuffed with polyfill (for gas exchange and to inoculate through) AND tyvek screwed down with the lid ring. And yes .... a needle hole is punched through the tyvek during inoculation ..... so there is a little breach ... but you still have the tyvek sheet and the polyfill ...
The real benefit for me ... is when I shake the grain, the moist grain doesn't hit the polyfill (which would be very close to the outside environment .... especially if the polyfill got wet) ..... the moist grains are shaken against the tyvek and never get close to the polyfill.
Hope this helps, MAN
--------------------
|
Derk
Friend



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 272
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Frost000]
#8112462 - 03/06/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
if you do it with a bandaid how is the air suppose to get through it?
|
Derk
Friend



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 272
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: uncle_rico]
#8112484 - 03/06/08 06:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
uncle_rico said: The real benefit for me ... is when I shake the grain, the moist grain doesn't hit the polyfill (which would be very close to the outside environment .... especially if the polyfill got wet) ..... the moist grains are shaken against the tyvek and never get close to the polyfill.
Hope this helps, MAN
Doesn't the polyfill go through the jar lid and the tyvek just on top of it? Atleast that's what it shows in Doc's WBS tek
|
Psuper
Psilocybin


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,878
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8112492 - 03/06/08 06:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Derk said: if you do it with a bandaid how is the air suppose to get through it?
~You don't cover the whole tyvek filter, so there is still air exchange. ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
|
deadatdusk
Stranger


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 295
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8112621 - 03/06/08 06:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Derk said: if you do it with a bandaid how is the air suppose to get through it?
Bandaids are breathable, and will allow gas exchange.
|
uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8113010 - 03/06/08 07:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Derk ...
The polyfill is through the metal lid. The tyvek is between the glass jar and the metal lid and held tightly by the lid ring. So .... in my case, you cannot apply tape or a bandaid to the tyvek as you cannot get to it. (it is under the metal top.)
--------------------
Edited by uncle_rico (03/06/08 08:00 PM)
|
Derk
Friend



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 272
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: uncle_rico]
#8113193 - 03/06/08 08:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
ohhh so thats why he used coffee filters over the top instead of polyfil
|
bryanbzl
Spawn Runner



Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 563
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8113260 - 03/06/08 08:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
coffee filters are used as dust covers. they don't serve any other purpose.
-------------------- Cheers,
bzl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."
conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: bryanbzl]
#8113336 - 03/06/08 09:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
you can use silicone on the tyvek.. then you don't need either a bandaid or tape.. both inferior to silicone imo.
fahtster
|
smokedout420
The EnlightenedOne



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 484
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: fahtster]
#8113364 - 03/06/08 09:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
go with faht's Homemade master jar lids for using dried out tissue as inoculate
|
81Renaissance
Mad Scientist



Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 457
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8113557 - 03/06/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
yeah, tyvek with silicon as an injection port works well, and regarding the coffee filters its like RR says they have no place in mycology (At least I think it was RR who said that) but in response to the OP, you use tyvek because it still breathes but lowers the probability of contams, and the injection point should always be covered or sealed after inoculation.
-------------------- "Every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around."
|
tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,285
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: 81Renaissance]
#8113628 - 03/06/08 09:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
why do you guys use bandaids? That could get costly. Just cover the whole jar with tyvek. pc, let cool, wipe tyvek with alcohol, stick a piece of masking tape on the tyvek but leave 1/2 of it loose, stick the needle through the tyvek, remove needle, cover hole with tape. No contams, no glove box.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
|
deadatdusk
Stranger


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 295
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: tahoe]
#8114847 - 03/07/08 04:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Personally I use silicone injection ports with each lid having and individual polyfill stuffed hole for gas exchange it really couldn't be simpler and it works 100%
|
ofzeroconcern
Mindflayer

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 226
Loc: Aurora
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: deadatdusk]
#8115064 - 03/07/08 07:47 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Who can see the future? Those who create it."
|
implee
Cyber Hippie


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 5,833
Loc: Houston, Texas.
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8115094 - 03/07/08 08:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Generally the holes in your jar are bigger than your needle so the tyvek also makes the hole as big as your needle, not as big as the hole in the lid
example ( ) Here is the jar hole without tyvek (*) Here is the jar hole with tyvek, but you can see the injection hole is smaller than the other hole ( ) so the tyvek makes the bigger hole smaller 
Its just an idea i hope you understand it :O
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: tahoe]
#8143707 - 03/13/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
man, I did this for like two years, no problems (I lost about two jars out of 30 which for that time was totally accepted for a loss ratio).. I even did it with my master culture jars... THEN one of those master jars got contaminated because I used tape and I lost 54 qts to bacteria. That apple smellin kind... so nasty.
a good rule of thumb is... "if it's good enough for the hospital, it's good enough for us." (anyone else have a hard time writing the word "enough" without adding a "t"? lol because I do that shit all the time.)
Hospitals use self-healing ports. thats the best bet...
not trying to upset ya, tahoe... it's like that one buddy in a group of like 7 cats... and six of us play this sick online game and all the rest are like.. "dude, you should give this a shot"... and that one dude is like "no way dorks" lol THEN the one cat trys the game and is like "whoa yo, that was sick" and the six are like "I TOLD you yo... that shit is sick"
to hell with that 2 jar in 30 shit... it should be no jar in 30.. and selfhealing inoc ports are the way.. oughta give it a whirl mi amigo. be that guy yo... be that seventh friend. lol
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (03/13/08 09:34 PM)
|
Mana
Substance ofSouls


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 203
Loc: Where Everything Good Is ...
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8143785 - 03/13/08 09:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I just open the jar to inoculate.
-------------------- Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
How to become immortal: Read this signature tomorrow and follow its advice.
|
cyberthreat
Stranger


Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 676
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Mana]
#8143851 - 03/13/08 09:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
use micro spore tape and tape over the two holes on the lid of the jar
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: cyberthreat]
#8143890 - 03/13/08 10:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
the problem is with tape in general... it's an adhesive on the bottom... so it's extra sticky yo.. so mold spores in the air stick to it... not to mention it's nutritious enough to promote contaminate germination.. even if you don't inoculate a nasty into the jar, if you use tape and some contaminate sticks to it, the second you do a shake.. you're fucked for later in the grow... the reeeeeally bad thing about that is that your jars will finish colonizing before you realize you have mold and the instant to break up the jars to spawn, you open a HUGE window for contams to get a foothold. it's no joke.
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (03/13/08 10:12 PM)
|
Civ
Pinning



Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Derk]
#8144056 - 03/13/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
You don't need polyfil or tyvek. You don't NEED anything.
If your grain prep is up to par- the amount of spores or LC you inoculate with is going to be far more than the amount of bad spores that manage to 'fall' into your jar. A coffee filter will stop 99% of the brunt ambiant air trash- if you manage to have more contaminates enter your jar than the amount of inoculate you use- nothing you apply on the top is going to help you.
Unless your grains are controlled and properly prepared- you can have the most secure and sanitized filter in exsistance, and you will just blow up from the inside.
99 cent store, snag 250 coffee filters- and you can get 5LBS of poly for about 5$ from wally world.
What is everyone tripping on anyways? Are you guys blowing air into your jars with your mouth or something? :]
Quote:
you open a HUGE window for contams to get a foothold. it's no joke.
What makes a bigger window for contam than your grains touching the lid before spawning is poor innoc proccedure and ill grain prep.
I have a hard time recalling failed grows due to the poly, tape or tyvek people apply. Shiet.. the PF-Tek has a chunk of verm that sits at the top and collected spores. When you birth that cake, you expose that cake to whats on top- its all over the area once you agitate that jar.
I could see spore coated colonized grains getting into a substrate- but when people are pulling trich out their grows, thats comming from the CORE of the grains themself. Its so hard for trich to jump into a 100% colonized grain and take it over. So, if your spawning with grains that are 100% COVERED in myc, versus grains that are 100% colonized to the core, I am sure you will see some difference.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (03/13/08 10:49 PM)
|
Civ
Pinning



Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: 81Renaissance]
#8144145 - 03/13/08 10:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
81Renaissance said: yeah, tyvek with silicon as an injection port works well, and regarding the coffee filters its like RR says they have no place in mycology (At least I think it was RR who said that) but in response to the OP, you use tyvek because it still breathes but lowers the probability of contams, and the injection point should always be covered or sealed after inoculation.
Well thats bullshit. I am sure in semi-lab conditions, coffee filters "have no place" but in your house, with traffic, dander, bugs, wood shelving, paint, carpet, etc, it HAS its place.
I can show you hairs, dust, dirt, etc that will be coated on top of the coffee filters. instead of that crap falling into your poly or tyvek, it stops at the coffee filter, that is loosly applied at the top of your innoc filter. Its a cheap buffer- but you can actually SEE what it stops.
Look at a swimming pool- it has filters right? So why scoop out junk from the pool that you know the filter will stop? Why cover it? To stop the BRUNT of everything thats out there. To releave most of the work load. Why let the filter take all the trash? Stop 99% of that before it gets to your filters in the first place.
Coffee filters are great for labeling also ;]
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (03/13/08 10:59 PM)
|
Mana
Substance ofSouls


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 203
Loc: Where Everything Good Is ...
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Civ]
#8144165 - 03/13/08 11:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Can you reuse coffee filters over and over for grains jars like tyvek?
-------------------- Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
How to become immortal: Read this signature tomorrow and follow its advice.
|
Civ
Pinning



Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Mana]
#8144185 - 03/13/08 11:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Again, you CAN do anything- but I always toss them. Its like trying to reuse a condom- I mean, yeah, it works and its all giggles, but, it could even increase the risk more than not having a filter- by useing a dirty filter.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: Civ]
#8144192 - 03/13/08 11:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
If your grain prep is up to par- the amount of spores or LC you inoculate with is going to be far more than the amount of bad spores that manage to 'fall' into your jar. A coffee filter will stop 99% of the brunt ambiant air trash- if you manage to have more contaminates enter your jar than the amount of inoculate you use- nothing you apply on the top is going to help you.
ok, let me see if I get this... are you asking me to gamble here? lol so I need to make sure that I put enough inoculate in there to beat out the contaminates?
what contaminates are you talking about? And who's opening their jars. lol
silicone elimates coffee filters and gloveboxes completely. you don't need anything but the lid and to sterilize your needle.
Quote:
What makes a bigger window for contam than your grains touching the lid before spawning is poor innoc proccedure and ill grain prep.
You're absolutely right, like putting tape on needle punctured tyvek. lol
Quote:
I have a hard time recalling failed grows due to the poly, tape or tyvek people apply. Shiet.. the PF-Tek has a chunk of verm that sits at the top and collected spores. When you birth that cake, you expose that cake to whats on top- its all over the area once you agitate that jar.
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying..
you have a tyvek filter.. you puncture the tyvek with the needle... there is now a hole the diameter of the needle in your tyvek.. you cover the hole with tape... tape that possibly has contaminate spores stuck to it... your jar colonizes fine up to 30%... you shake the jar... "some" of the kernels now have the mold spores that were stuck to the tape that the kernels brushed up against during the shake... your jar finishes off fine because the mold was not fully established by then... you break your grain up to spawn... you spawn... your tub goes to shit right after 90% colonized because of the mold spores stuck to the tape in the beginning..
see what I'm saying? you don't have that problem with silicone/selfhealing ports. and you don't need a GB to open your jars in which is very risky in it's own right.
fahtster
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: fahtster]
#8144266 - 03/13/08 11:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I look at it this way...
if you had a condom and it had a hole in the top of it... not a very big one mind you... would you just put a band-aid or some tape over it??
LOL... hell no, wrap that shit up...
silicone/selfhealing ports are your mycological condom.
fahtster
|
mariodiet
Rageing boner


Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 89
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: fahtster]
#8144645 - 03/14/08 02:03 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fahtster said:
if you had a condom and it had a hole in the top of it... not a very big one mind you... would you just put a band-aid or some tape over it??
LOL... hell no
Wait, you mean holes are a bad thing?
-------------------- Well hey there.
|
Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter



Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why do you use tyvek when you just.... [Re: mariodiet]
#8144814 - 03/14/08 03:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
holes that allow endospores and and bacteria through arent good enough. of course there needs to be some air exchange, but usually micropore lids and related kinds should be used...
Using paper towels/coffee filters/tape is like using chicken wire for keeping flies out. Its just not good enough.
|
|