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 xnevermore
? Ω?
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
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 Noam Chomsky on the Drug War 
#811141 - 08/11/02 02:16 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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- xnevermore
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 TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
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 Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: xnevermore]
#811157 - 08/11/02 02:32 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Certainly seems to know his shit...
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dickdeadly
rælity
Registered: 04/05/02
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fuck chomsky, he capitalizes off of being against capitalism... that's so fucking pathetic. that's like anti-conformist conformists at school
if you dont like it, leave
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Character is how you act when you think no one is watching
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vatoloco
Puppet Hunter -DBK
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: dickdeadly]
#812971 - 08/12/02 11:52 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
Registered: 01/25/01
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Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: vatoloco]
#812984 - 08/12/02 11:56 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Whether or not you agree with Noam Chomsky's opinions, you have to admire him. The dude is smarter than everyone at the shoomery put together...he's not always right, and he's not perfect, but he always makes you think.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Rono]
#813054 - 08/12/02 12:33 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Whether or not you agree with Noam Chomsky's opinions, you have to admire him.
Not true, I have no admiration for him. Simply being smart does not make me admire someone.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: dickdeadly]
#814314 - 08/13/02 05:51 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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How else would you like him to get his ideas out?
I haven't seen any signs that he's greedy.
Even if you're against capitalism, you've still got to eat.
It's pretty hard to leave the US when they're stationed in almost every country around the world.
If you don't like something, change it for the better, don't abandon it like a coward.
Lots of people who hate the US government love the US. They don't want to abandon the country they grew up in.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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wingnutx
Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Rono]
#818484 - 08/15/02 03:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Chomsky is a cheap demogogue, an apologist for the Khmer Rouge, and an all around evil nutjob. He never saw an oppressive regime he didn't support, just as long as it was anti-western.
The war on drugs will be ended by people like William F. Buckley and Gov. Gary Johnson, not tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorists like Chomsky.
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mr freedom
enthusiast
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: xnevermore]
#818855 - 08/15/02 06:11 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I read the interview. He had some rational things to add to the means behind the war on drugs. I take issue with Chomsky, as most do, because of his innane ramblings and unsupported socialist arguments. I don't dislike him, I just dislike the socialist aspects of some of his arguments, I most certainly agree with his stance on drugs though.
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amanita3
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 Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: xnevermore]
#819221 - 08/16/02 02:00 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the link, xnevermore; I missed that article and it is a good one. I agree with TheShroomHermit, vatoloco, mr freedom, Rono, and especially with Phluck (well said!).
You others might read a bit of History before you shoot your mouths off, exposing your ignorance.
The Right wing (Nazis) and the Left wing (Commies) are but two arms of the same BEAST- the Oligarchy- the International Bankers, playing the entire World for SUCKERS. The Grand Game is for World Domination, and the primary tactic is called "Divide and Conquer". The British Rothschild $$$ clan leads the Left arm and set up the Russians through the phoney 'Bolschevic Revolution' when they executed the ruling Tzars. The Right Wing Nazis of Germany were sponsored by the Rockefeller/Ford,et al Faction. The game is to blow things up so that they can impoverish the populations of their respective countries who ultimately PAY for everything; both the wars and the rebuilding which follows the destruction. Thus, there is little progress in the people's welfare. Meanwhile, the International Bankers/Oligarchy/Criminal Enterprise flourishes, Don't you see? WE, the PEOPLE, are being HAD! We throw shit at EACH OTHER while the BASTARDS are laughing all the way to the Bank. Twas ever thus, and will continue this way throughout time,UNLESS we, the PEOPLE, wise up. THEY are few and WE are MANY- and they fear our numbers. So they keep us confused and fighting amongst ourselves. They thin out our numbers (maybe a good thing for the Earth's sake???) The money always flows to the TOP, to the BANKERS. This is why THEY ALWAYS COME OUT THE WINNERS, at OUR EXPENSE!
If you study History you may come to see, and agree; there lies our only hope. We, the PEOPLE, must depose the Puppetteers. The Emporer wears no clothes, don't you SEE? In my humble opinion..... Wishing PEACE on you ALL.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: amanita3]
#819546 - 08/16/02 05:35 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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In reply to:
You others might read a bit of History before you shoot your mouths off, exposing your ignorance.
So because I don't admire Chumpsky, that means I'm ignorant?
Now that's funny.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: wingnutx]
#819643 - 08/16/02 06:10 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The Khmer Rouge rouge thing is bullshit. He doesn't say they're good people, he just points out some lies that the US used to justify invading Vietnam.
You should read what Chomsky himself says, and not what anti-Chomsky websites say about him.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: amanita3]
#819667 - 08/16/02 06:18 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's not quite so black and white.
There's no international conspiracy of bankers, media and politicians. They're all independant individuals, with their own biases and opinions.
When you hear someone tell a story, they usually change it a little bit in their favour. That's simply what the media does, and since the media is owned by rich people in big companies, it generally won't take a left/working class type of stance. The media picks the stories it reports. Is the Israel-Palestine conflict the bloodiest going on in the world right now? Not by a long shot. It gets a lot more attention because we have strong financial and political ties to Israel, and other middle eastern countries.
Having money makes it easier to get more money, so the people who are rich tend to stay rich,
and the poor stay poor.
You don't need Rothschilds or Illuminati or even spooky shadow governments to explain it.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Anonymous
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Phluck]
#819732 - 08/16/02 06:36 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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since the media is owned by rich people in big companies, it generally won't take a left/working class type of stance.
Bullshit. Here's an example...
"I'm a Socialist at heart." - Ted Turner, to a gathering of U.N. bureaucrats.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 25 days, 13 hours
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: ]
#819748 - 08/16/02 06:42 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Somehow, someone that is a Billionaire just saying that he is a socialist at heart doesn't hold alot of credibility...
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Anonymous
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Rono]
#819811 - 08/16/02 07:07 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some more wealthy socialists...
Henry Hyndman, the son of a rich businessman, born in London, formed Britain's first socialist political party, The Social Democratic Federation (SDF) as well as the National Socialist Party
Ferdinand Lassallea a wealthy socialist from Berlin who had financially supported the work of Karl Marx.
William Morris (famous and wealthy socialist that Irish author William Butler Yeats hobnobbed with)
Aline Barnsdall had the epic neo-Mayan mansion known as "Hollyhock House," designed for her by Frank Lloyd Wright in 1919 (at Hollywood Blvd & Vermont Ave. in L.A.)
Rose Pastor Stokes, Cleveland cigarmaker who became well-known socialist and traveled in leftist intellectual circles with wealthy socialist husband.
"Hanoi" Jane Fonda
Ted Kennedy
Ralph Nadar ($3.8 million)
Victor Rothschild
Cecil and Sidney Bernstein (of Granada Televison in England)
Janie Allan (Scottish Suffragette)
... and most wealthy hollywood actors and actresses.
Edited by Evolving (08/16/02 07:08 AM)
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: xnevermore]
#819993 - 08/16/02 08:29 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Chomsky is a chump. So he is smart..so what?
check it out Noam Chomsky, biased
this has been discussed before
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Phluck]
#821046 - 08/16/02 01:16 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Phluck writes:
You should read what Chomsky himself says, and not what anti-Chomsky websites say about him.
I have. Not every single book and article (why should I contribute to his wealth?) but at least five or six I borrowed from friends or the library. I've read pretty near every one of his online articles, I think.
Chomsky is dishonest. He is VERY slick, but anyone with a modicum of intelligence, a fair knowledge of recent history, and some patience can pick out the bullshit after a bit of practice.
Some of the things he writes are true, but by no means all. Hey, even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn every now and then.
But to swallow uncritically everything he spouts is a grievous error.
Even though he is against the War on Drugs, vast chunks of that article are either untrue or unprovable, and he just can't restrain himself from wandering all over the map, tossing in gratuitous anti-Western digs whenever it strikes his fancy.
The man has his own agenda -- the destruction of the US -- and he will use any excuse to further it, even one as far afield as a commentary on the WOD.
pinky
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Phred]
#821649 - 08/16/02 04:36 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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"The man has his own agenda -- the destruction of the US"
Good grief.
"Hey, even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn every now and then."
Can I have some of your drugs?
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the Drug War [Re: Phluck]
#821873 - 08/16/02 05:54 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good grief indeed. You're the one who suggested it was a good idea to read Chomsky himself, rather than critics of Chomsky, in order to understand his point of view.
Well, I HAVE read Chomsky. I'm willing to wager I've read quite a bit more of his writings than you have. Have you read any of his critics? Even one article?
I read Chomsky long before I read any of his critics, and guess what? I had come to the same conclusions (on my own) that they had. The more Chomsky one reads, the more apparent it is that he has nothing but contempt and hatred for anything even remotely connected with capitalism, and especially the US. He has nothing good to say about the US, but he is strangely silent on far worse and far more oppressive regimes, only ever mentioning them when he claims they are creations of -- you guessed it -- the Great Satan.
He is an avowed "anarchist", or more accurately one of the "anarcho-syndicalist" tribe of "anarchists", who are close as damn to being Marxist, but don't have the intellectual honesty to admit it. He distorts and misrepresents, takes things out of context, exaggerates (he is particularly bad at exaggerating or inventing "statistics"), cherry-picks bits and pieces to support his agenda while ignoring mountains of evidence (often in the same documents) that contradicts it, and, when he finds even these tactics insufficient, he just makes things up. To be blunt, he lies.
Not all the time, no. Some of the abuses of power engineered by J. Edgar Hoover and the CIA and Kissinger and Nixon and other fine figures in US history actually DID occur exactly as he describes them, and this is why people get sucked in by his methods -- he sprinkles enough well-known and verifiable facts into the mix at just the right points that the entire screed seems, to the non-critical reader, to be plausible. I don't deny that he is a smart man, he IS a smart man, as careful reading of his constructions will show. He is a linguist, after all, and he is as well-versed in the tricks of rhetoric as it is as possible to be.
That's why I say he is dishonest. He KNOWS what he is saying is bullshit, but he figures his linguistic brilliance is such that no one will ever catch him out.
He would be a much more effective critic of US policy if he were to play it straight. As it is, his hyperbole and dishonesty is so consistent that it is impossible to take him seriously. That's a shame, because as I implied with my "blind pigs and acorns" reference, it is possible that some day he really might uncover some truly bad shit, and it'll be ignored as "just more Chomsky chump change".
pinky
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Edited by pinksharkmark (08/16/02 05:57 PM)
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