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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
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Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8106254 - 03/05/08 03:59 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

No way do those delegates (FL & MI) get seated as is. At the very most, they'll have a do-over.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineblackegg
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Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
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Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8106535 - 03/05/08 05:07 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Quote:

blackegg said:
I think you mean, "gunna"...






its gunna be gooooooood.





:grin:





I agree...interesting article!

I'm going to totally expose my ignorance and ask a question.

Why isn't he taking more swings at her?

Does he really have the luxury of waiting till the last minute before unleasing a series of attacks?

Or what?
:confused:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Invisiblevonhumboldt
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8106939 - 03/05/08 06:45 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
No way do those delegates (FL & MI) get seated as is. At the very most, they'll have a do-over.




Even a do-over is wrong and unfair. You cant change the rules mid-game. You can have a re-count, but not a re-vote.


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Invisiblebradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: blackegg]
    #8106973 - 03/05/08 06:50 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
Quote:

Quote:

blackegg said:
I think you mean, "gunna"...






its gunna be gooooooood.





:grin:





I agree...interesting article!

I'm going to totally expose my ignorance and ask a question.

Why isn't he taking more swings at her?

Does he really have the luxury of waiting till the last minute before unleasing a series of attacks?

Or what?
:confused:




He's trying to maintain an air of integrity hoping that she will drown in her own excrement is my best guess.


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: bradmassive]
    #8108390 - 03/05/08 11:05 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Maybe he's trying to influence the Super Delegates???


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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Invisiblevonhumboldt
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: blackegg]
    #8108735 - 03/06/08 12:04 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

The Obama campaign has wanted to maintain a dignified race and avoid the smears that the Clintons seem to utilize. I do think Obama needs to be more aggressive and can do so without pettiness and smears. Clinton is an easy target - she's corrupt and has many, many skeletons that can be dug up.

Obama will be coming back at Clinton: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/05/obama-camp-lays-ground-fo_n_89979.html


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8108793 - 03/06/08 12:15 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

vonhumboldt said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
No way do those delegates (FL & MI) get seated as is. At the very most, they'll have a do-over.




Even a do-over is wrong and unfair. You cant change the rules mid-game. You can have a re-count, but not a re-vote.




No rules will be changed except the date.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblevonhumboldt
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8108943 - 03/06/08 01:04 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

All the candidates agreed to not campaign in Florida and Michigan and to remain in solidarity with the DNC regarding the decision to seat zero delegates from those states. The rules were Michigan and Florida do not count. You cannot go back on that agreement because you now want to win a few more delegates because the race is tighter than expected.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8109389 - 03/06/08 03:05 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Why not!?

Listen, I'm an Obama supporter. The simple fact is that the public pressure from those two states is immense now and will only grow in the future. You can see this evidenced in events like the joint press conference between the two state's Governors today.

As this public pressure continues to mount, the Democratic party will be faced with two options. Either seat the delegates as they have already been won, in a clearly non-democratic election and in the process hand Hillary the nomination. Or have a do-over with adequate warning for all parties. This has been estimated at costint 25-30 million dollars. But I think the DNC would cover it.

But at any rate, I don't see any scenario as likely where the delegates are just magically forgotten about. The rules may have originally said they didn't count, and I may wish they didn't count. But the fact is that those delegates are actual people, they do exist, and they will be working to be seated from now until the convention.

I don't think you can stop them, and in all reality it's probably not right to even *try* and stop them. But there is nothing wrong with trying to get the process applied fairly and in a way beneficial to your candidate.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblevonhumboldt
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 377
Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8109447 - 03/06/08 03:28 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Why not!?




This sets a terrible precedence for following elections. States can do whatever they please without any worry of consequence and risk turning primary dates into a chaotic game of leapfrog. At some point, the DNC has to put the brakes on and enforce rules.

Quote:

The simple fact is that the public pressure from those two states is immense now and will only grow in the future. You can see this evidenced in events like the joint press conference between the two state's Governors today.




It is not up to the Governors to decide when or how a party runs its primaries and certainly not Republican governor Crist.

Quote:

As this public pressure continues to mount, the Democratic party will be faced with two options. Either seat the delegates as they have already been won, in a clearly non-democratic election and in the process hand Hillary the nomination. Or have a do-over with adequate warning for all parties. This has been estimated at costint 25-30 million dollars. But I think the DNC would cover it.




Or how about just following the original rules instead of the whims of a heated contest? No campaigning, zero seating.

Quote:

But at any rate, I don't see any scenario as likely where the delegates are just magically forgotten about. The rules may have originally said they didn't count, and I may wish they didn't count. But the fact is that those delegates are actual people, they do exist, and they will be working to be seated from now until the convention.




Florida and Michigan delegates cannot just seat themselves. They've been ruled out. Those who tried to push their states ahead in the primary calendar to make their state the king maker are to blame and these are the unfortunate consequences of violating the rules.

A deal is a deal - you cant go back on it now that the race has gotten tight.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Hillary and Obama Neck and Neck so far... (0vs0%) Official OH/TX Primary results thread [Re: vonhumboldt]
    #8109456 - 03/06/08 03:32 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

vonhumboldt said:


A deal is a deal - you cant go back on it now that the race has gotten tight.




I think you're going to find that this is mistaken.

Listen to what Howard Dean says! He is actively trying to find a solution that doesn't involve just not seating these delegates. This is 5 millions fucking votes!

Dean and the rest of the DNC, whatever your opinion of them have to make the best decision for the party. There is no rational way that telling the entire nation 6 months before the election that you are refusing to count the votes of 5,000,000 people because of some arcane scheduling restrictions can be construed as a good political decision. It would be party suicide, en masse.

The average joe isn't going to see that the Democratic party is trying to keep the primary system manageable, or keep certain states from losing their traditional place in the spotlight. All they are going to see is that the Democrats are not counting votes from two extremely populous states for no good reason. If you want to commit hara-kiri for party policies and for Iowa and New Hampshire, fine. But I have been through enough shit with this fucking party doing stupid things and I would like to win one of these goddamned elections.

Dean is looking for any possible way out of this. Just listen to what he says. Everyone is amenable to a do-over, the only matter is the money. The DNC said they wouldn't pay for it, but they will.

It is in nobodies best interest to not have these things redone. Disenfranchising 5 million people 6 months before a heated Presidential election is in nobodies interest except the motherfucking bastards in the GOFuckingP.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Edited by Madtowntripper (03/06/08 03:41 AM)


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