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Invisibleshack_grows
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pragmatics
    #8092252 - 03/01/08 11:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Pragmatics is the study of the ability of natural language speakers to communicate more than that which is explicitly stated.

The person could simply say, 'Stop smoking, please!' which is direct and with clear semantic meaning; alternatively, the person could say, 'Whew, this room could use an air purifier' which implies a similar meaning but is indirect and therefore requires pragmatic inference to derive the intended meaning.

Edited by shack_grows (03/02/08 12:45 AM)

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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092258 - 03/01/08 11:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

english might not be my first language.. i speak another language.

i speak both languages equally shitty.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092265 - 03/01/08 11:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Shitty.
Pity.


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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8092277 - 03/02/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wut the fuck, don't post ur picture in this forum.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092279 - 03/02/08 12:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

How come??


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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8092291 - 03/02/08 12:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

cuz ur good looking.. no. cuz of the fucking cops.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092347 - 03/02/08 12:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

cops??

Where??


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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8092424 - 03/02/08 12:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:cop:

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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092430 - 03/02/08 12:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

what if the person who said 'Whew, this room could use an air purifier' solely meant that the room could use an air purifier..?

i got that example from wikipedia.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8092995 - 03/02/08 08:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't follow and... why thank you.


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8093334 - 03/02/08 11:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I see what you're saying. What I don't see is why this matters.

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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8093695 - 03/02/08 01:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shack_grows said:
Pragmatics is the study of the ability of natural language speakers to communicate more than that which is explicitly stated.

The person could simply say, 'Stop smoking, please!' which is direct and with clear semantic meaning; alternatively, the person could say, 'Whew, this room could use an air purifier' which implies a similar meaning but is indirect and therefore requires pragmatic inference to derive the intended meaning.




I think this is an important skill when trying to "teach". Not teach so much as help a person have a realization for themselves. You guide them to the answer. In this type of usage it could be helpful.

In the example you used, it might relate to passiveness and confrontation, or to trying to be polite, but dropping "subtle" hints.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #8093744 - 03/02/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

how do you know when a certain person is trying to "hint" using pragmatics then?

what if some people are carried away with pragmatics that all they try to do when they talk is drop 'hints' here and there and see if you catch on?

"you need an air purifier"
1 train of thought: purely means you need an air purifier
2nd train of thought: you need to stop smoking

or.. since that person sees that you're smoking, "you need an air purifier" is said so that - IF you want to smoke, you should also carry an air purifier.

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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8093749 - 03/02/08 01:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

cuz if Everyone uses pragmatics.. which could be possible.. u could correlate any number of things to any phrase. this isn't dumb, this is trying to figure out why people say certain things, why they say it, and what the Norm of using pragmatics is.

is 50% of things ppl say pragmatics? how do you figure?

what if that person didn't even mean to use pragmatics and yet you take away more from a phrase that they say than originally meant by the speaker?

and what if you face dumbasses who don't understand the 'hint' that you try to drop?

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8093767 - 03/02/08 01:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

this gets pretty complicated for me as I am more of an idealist so I often can be that dumbass who doesn't understand the hint. I would prefer if someone directly told me what they mean or what they want rather than leave it up to me to ponder on the possibilities. sometimes if you hint about something and I'm standing right there with you I will think you're trying to play mind games or you're being passive agressive, which I think comes from my habit of being at least slightly paranoid at the back of my mind.

should it be my responsibility to quickly understand what a person is hinting at or is direct communication the better route? I think if you see someone doesn't get the hint the first time, then maybe to keep giving hints is a bad idea and you should directly confront the person.. but i guess it all depends on the people involved


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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8093795 - 03/02/08 01:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

so it isn't human nature to drop pragmatics everywhere.

but.. You need an air purifier.

how would someone deduce to use that phrase as pragmatics, in order to hint "i want you to stop smoking?"

did that person spend hours at home trying to come up with phrases that would hint to people that the person wanted to quit smoking?

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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: pragmatics [Re: shack_grows]
    #8093862 - 03/02/08 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shack_grows said:

did that person spend hours at home trying to come up with phrases that would hint to people that the person wanted to quit smoking?




I think it's a learned style of behavior. People practice it for their whole lives. Just like the skinny kid in school learns to fight by using witty comments and humiliating his bigger, more muscular opponent, instead of physically engaging him.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Invisibleshack_grows
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Re: pragmatics [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #8095238 - 03/02/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah thats a good answer. good enuf for me to get my mind off this subject.

but, any other opinions out there?

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