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Simple Strain Crossing Tek
    #8089998 -

My fried recently succeeded in crossing an Amazon strain with a Penis Envy strain.

All he did was to spawn 50/50 Amazon/PES into his coir.

1 quart of Amazon, 1 quart of Penis Envy, spawned to 50/50 coir/verm.

Several dozen Amazon pins and several dozen PES pins formed along with several hybrid pins.

The reason he is sure it worked is this, Amazon has nearly round caps, which are very red colored, and thin stems, at least the strain he used did.

PE has a arrowhead like caps (read penis), a golden color, and very thick stems.

The crossed fruits look like slightly smaller PEs, with a distinct red cap and thick stems.



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The fruit shall set you free.

Edited by Bungalow Bill (03/02/08 12:25 PM)

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Bungalow Bill]
    #8090128 -

There's at least a thousand posts describing exactly that. However, such is only a hybrid if you consider a couple where the woman is from texas and the man is from florida, to breed hybrid kids. Remember, they're the same species and will easily cross.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8090144 -

Cool, so he is not nuts!

Is this a good method for infusing new genes into inbred clones?

If this is not a true hybrid, then what exactly is a true hybrid?

I guess one parent was from the Amazon jungle, the other, I don't know where PE came from originally, except that it is a mutant, so I understand..

In corn, hybrids are described this way, and they tend to show better genes then their parents did.


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The fruit shall set you free.

Edited by Bungalow Bill (03/02/08 12:07 PM)

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Bungalow Bill] * 1
    #8091470 -

Its possible that genes were exchanged though anastomosis, but in my experience the Penis shaped cap is a recessive feature and wouldn't be apparent in the F1 generation of a normal (50/50) hybrid between those two strains.

But fungal genetics are weird and its possible that only a few genes or occasional nuclei where exchanged. Its hard to know with such uncontrolled crosses.

Still cool though.


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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Workman]
    #8091588 -

Personally I am interested in anytime someone undertakes attempts at hybridization. As much as I respect RR, I believe his post to be a bit pessimistic. Please keep up the work. (IMHO) good things can result. Pics and more detailed info would be nice.


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Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Workman]
    #8091615 -

pes= pacific exoctica spora not in any way related to penis envy or penis shaped fruit body. PES was a company that sold a grip of strains with a bunch of bullshit history like the PESH that is a hawaiian cube, but cubes aren't native to hawaii.


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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: resptodd]
    #8091622 -

i think what rr was saying is that it is a "new" amazon x pe strain, but it isn't really a "hybrid" b/c they are both p cubensis. Is that correct, RR?


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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Broooodward]
    #8092273 -

It's a lot more practical to take 2 isolates and work with them on a petri. But i guess actually cloning already morphed fruits lets you pick and choose :wink:


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Cheers,

bzl

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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: bryanbzl] * 1
    #8092635 -

If you waited until it was already spawn then they certainly were alredy dikaryotic. Thus you would have no chance of mating them and zero chance of a hybrid.

Your method just won't work for creating crosses.


-FF

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Workman]
    #8093531 -

Workman said:
Its possible that genes were exchanged though anastomosis, but in my experience the Penis shaped cap is a recessive feature and wouldn't be apparent in the F1 generation of a normal (50/50) hybrid between those two strains.

But fungal genetics are weird and its possible that only a few genes or occasional nuclei where exchanged. Its hard to know with such uncontrolled crosses.

Still cool though.


Hey thanks Workman!

The caps are definitely penis shaped, but red, not golden like PEs.

Also like I said, the cross looks like smaller PEs with red caps.

The cross is much larger than the Amazon pins, with significantly thicker stems.


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The fruit shall set you free.

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: fastfred]
    #8093547 -

fastfred said:
If you waited until it was already spawn then they certainly were already dikaryotic. Thus you would have no chance of mating them and zero chance of a hybrid.

Your method just won't work for creating crosses.


-FF


If it didn't work, or cannot work, then why did RR and Workman agree that it could work?

When the dikaryotic myc was broken up for spawn, it recolonized and obviously Amazon and PE myc joined at some point.

Seems much less likely that a 50/50 mix would produce pins from each, and then pins that appear to be a cross between the two, while not having crossed.

Some of the pins are 100% Amazon, some are 100% PE, but the third group is clearly a mix or cross of the two.

All the fruits are dried now, and further confirming my friends suspicion, the crossed fruits dried to much heavier than the Amazon fruits, but slightly smaller then the PE fruits.

He cloned the two best fruits, and when they are spawned to sub he will get me some pics so I can show you guys what it looks like, again, like a smaller PE with a red cap.


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The fruit shall set you free.

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: Bungalow Bill] * 1
    #8093810 -

I suppose it's possible, but it's highly unlikely.

The PE maybe could have picked up a nucleus carrying a dominant trait for red caps. In a trikaryotic state it's possible that the recessive PE trait and the dominant red cap phenotype could be expressed at the same time.

There are many possibilities for your situation. The red caps could also be due to a gene product that is able to travel through the myc and thus cause PEs to turn red.

But what you have is not a cross. In the trikaryotic trait the myc will resegregate on media and will not be stable. It would also not breed true and it's unlikely that any genetic information will be exchanged upon further division. It's likely that the more homologous nuclei will segregate upon meiosis and you won't be able to get any crossed spores.

RR posted a microscope pic of some trikaryotic myc awhile back, so it's possible. Sometimes whole masses of nuclei can end up in a single cell.

As workman pointed out PE is a recessive trait and there is no possibility that it could be expressed in an F1 cross through normal Mendelian inheritance.

So whatever you have it's not a true cross. It will likely segregate upon subculture, not remain stable, and you probably won't be able to get any spores with novel genetic material from it.

I encourage you to continue to experiment. Using the spores from these fruits you will likely get only PE back. If you do end up producing any crossed spores these will not show the PE trait and you won't be able to select the crosses from the parental types.

That's the problem with random unverified crosses. If you don't know that it's crossed you can't pick out the crosses from parental types when they're mixed. You'll also have the problem of producing segregants rather than recombinant cells.


-FF

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Re: Simple Hybrid Tek [Re: fastfred]
    #8093816 -

Thanks Fred, that was an extremely well-informed reply!


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The fruit shall set you free.

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