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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer
    #807462 - 08/09/02 05:07 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What does this have to do with Spirituality and philosophy? You'll see.

Enter mentioned something earlier that got my attention, regarding evil spirits (jinns who listen to Shaytaan to us Muslims) inflicting a person in the will of God in order to bring about struggle, and eventually belief.

Before I utter the story of Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer, you should know who he is.

He was born in 1960, and died in 1994. He was sexually attracted to the corpses of dead men (his infliction), and during his lifetime, he murdered about 17 young men in total. However, what matters is what he was, who he was, and what he believed in when he died.

There are several factors that seperate a soul like Jeffrey Dahmer from a soul like Henry Lee Lucas. Jeffrey Dahmer, unfortunately was afflicted with an extremely rare paraphilia that ultimately controlled every aspect of his life from the age of 15 until he was 31 years old. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't torture animals, leave calling cards, taunt the police, collect newspaper clippings of his crimes like most conventional serial killers.

Most serial killers constantly kill because the act of physically killing another human being is extremely pleasurable to them. When Jeffrey Dahmer killed, he strangled them with neck ties quickly while they were passed out so that they became cadavers. Jeffrey wasn't addicted to killing, but was addicted to killing people for their dead bodies.

If you ever read Lionel Dahmer's A Father's Story you might understand why I'm bringing up a dead serial killer.

Jeffrey Dahmer ultimately became a Christian after his arrest. Not five years into his sentence or 20 years into his sentence, but directly after the madness when he was sent to prison. He read the Bible on a daily basis until one day, a schizophrenic man killed him in Prison around two years after his conversion. After his death, Jeffrey Dahmer's father also became a Christian, as did Jeff's older brother. Jeffrey Dahmer, unlike most serial killers, had a conscience, that's why he turned to the LORD in search of forgiveness.

What does this have to do with anything?

Sometimes, it takes an unknowing dreadful journey into deception until the truth realized for what it is.

Jeff Dahmer, who was homosexual by nature, and not practice, (after his conversion) found God when he realized the absolute destruction he had cause. He said over and over again, that he fears God will not forgive him. The reverend who baptized him told Jeff that God loves to forgive people who ask in this life (this is why He is so Mericful, no matter who you are, you can seek refuge in God which is for the benefit of yourself in the long run).

God does what He pleases. It took me awhile to completely understand how God could reward someone like Jeffrey Dahmer with Paradise, and damn someone like Ghandi. It's the way it is- when you die in disbelief of the messenger(s), you give up eternal life. God is never unjust., and anyone who disagrees is a fool to do so.
The fact that we argue experience...

It is said, God will guide the disbelievers deeper into disbelief, just as He guides the believers deeper into belief.

The wicked who don't believe don't experience God for a reason.

I'm still convinced under other circumstances, Jeffrey Dahmer would have never believed. What happened to him was in a plan that most of us can hardly comprehend, but if you believe, you will see.

When I argue experience.. in that sense, what have I experienced?

I can describe in words, but it's like this... when you seek refuge with the Creator, you experience true peace in your heart. The more you remember God, the more peaceful you are. You also see through every deception that leads one to disbelieve when you surrender your will to God.

When you let your animal self control your free will, you are letting evil decieve you. When you surrender your will to God, you do deeds with your free will according to the guidance He has given you.

Ghandi may have lived a life filled with thousands among thousands of good deeds. His good deeds for sure outweighed his bad did deeds, but all those good deeds are worthless because because Ghandi was decieved into believing that if he lived this life well spent, the next life on earth will be even better. Unfortunately for Ghandi, he associated partners with God, Jeffrey Dahmer didn't.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #807564 - 08/09/02 06:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

God does what He pleases. It took me awhile to completely understand how God could reward someone like Jeffrey Dahmer with Paradise, and damn someone like Ghandi. It's the way it is- when you die in disbelief of the messenger(s), you give up eternal life. God is never unjust., and anyone who disagrees is a fool to do so.

Fuck that God. I told you he was a dick.
peace,

An Admitted Fool (according to your terms)


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #807738 - 08/09/02 07:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Zahid - Please don't take this as a personal attack...I'm just posting my point of view.

I say the god most often referred to by christians in general isn't the real God at all...just the entity that created us. This particular entity (be he a single being or an entire race) can be (and is in my opinion) a major pain in the ass. This 'god' is the one that feels it's okay to punish the 'wicked' and damn anyone that doesn't follow his rules by the letter. The real God however, is exactly what 'god' should be - an all passionate all forgiving entity that knows nothing outside of love. So if you choose to believe in (and possibly even worship) some cruel hearted bastard of a god, then so be it. I can't change your beliefs any more then you can change mine. But I can tell ya this much though: Ghandi was a great man, and he will be rewarded for his good deeds with or without baptism/holy ghost/whatever (at least as far as I see it anyways)


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #807789 - 08/09/02 08:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

How do you know that God damned Ghandi and sent Dahmer to paradise?
God did not do this. It is men who presume to speak for God who damned Ghandi to eternal damnation and allowed Dahmer to live with the saints. This does not surprise me because men who presume to speak for God are usually the farthest from Him.

It is said, God will guide the disbelievers deeper into disbelief, just as He guides the believers deeper into belief.

Where is this said? This seems an awfully cruel act by God to "guide disbelievers deeper into disbelief" and ultimately into Hell. I thought God was trying to help us get into Heaven. Maybe you are referring to your god here but I don't think a compassionate God would do such a thing.



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InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer *DELETED* [Re: Zahid]
    #807804 - 08/09/02 08:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #807957 - 08/09/02 10:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I thought Dahmer did torture animals? There's a photo in his biography from when he was a kid where he's cut a dogs head off and put it on a stick on a busy footpath to upset people.

He was also building a shrine where all the spirits of the people he killed could worship him. I think Jeff had a good share of wickedness in him as well as the mental problems.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Xlea321]
    #808162 - 08/10/02 03:03 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i see you are doing gods messenging these days. that is a ridiculous point of view, take yours truths about life from what you can see in the real world, not what you read, dont say it.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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Anonymous

Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #808214 - 08/10/02 04:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

haha...thats all I have to say about that..this is the best time for the use of a man named Swami.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 26 days
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #808236 - 08/10/02 05:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

m.c.
you appear to be a gnostic ...
z.
i think that dahmer's father was a practicing lutheran, which would make him a christian (and jeffery as well, one must assume...)
(ummm, does anybody remember jubal harshaw's distaste for the heaven of the fosterites/church of the new revelation?)


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Draig]
    #808556 - 08/10/02 10:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Your god rewards Jeffrey Dahmer with eternal bliss in heaven and damns Mahatma Gandhi to eternal hellfire. I for one won't be worshipping that god anytime soon.

Ummmm Yep Thats what I was thinking. If this is the attitude of the god who made the universe and all its laws then he most resembles a spoiled bratty child who needs a good ass whipping.

"I won't let you play with my barbie cause you won't listen to me so there." God 3:16

Fuck that. I would rather be on my own and lost than chained to an altar...


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Anonymous

Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: postalboy]
    #808559 - 08/10/02 10:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The chains forged in the white hot fire of freewill are impossible to break.

All may do as they please.

Do you lick stamps for a living? Or what?


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #808590 - 08/10/02 10:31 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"God does what He pleases. It took me awhile to completely understand how God could reward someone like Jeffrey Dahmer with Paradise, and damn someone like Ghandi."
-----------------------------

It is stunning that a seemingly reasonable person would believe such a thing.
I would rather spend an eternity in hell than worship such an unjust god.
Such a god would be a tyrant. It is sad to see someone throw their god-given mind away.
I encourage you to rethink your beliefs because god is a god of justice and reason.

As for Damer's so-called "conversion", I don't believe it for a second.
It's funny how people when they get caught find religion straight away.

This thread reminds me why I got out of the religion game in the first place.
Religion stinks to high heaven.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: gnrm23]
    #808622 - 08/10/02 10:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Funny you should say that, that's actually what a lot of my beliefs are basd off of. I couldn't really claim to be a true gnostic though, cause I also have a lot buddahist, American Indian, and metaphysical beliefs mixed in there as well. I guess you can say my 'religion' (if that's what you want to call it) is a sort of Heinz 57 of spirituality. But hey, don't we all kinda do that to some extent?


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: ]
    #808627 - 08/10/02 10:50 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't generally lick them, as I prefer to gently suck, then bite them. We sell self-adhesives mostly anyway. But to answer the question, yes I do work for the Post Office. scary huh? I post in the security forum for people with mail problems relating to our collective hobby. no one reads my posts but the knowledge is there if it is ever needed. LOL


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Anonymous

Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: postalboy]
    #808800 - 08/10/02 12:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

LOL A government agent?

I am straight dude. Honest.

[tosses baggie out window]

good work postal. even if people don't reply doesn't mean they don't read it. In a forum like that you get a lot of people that read and don't post because they are cautious. They even go there to read under anonymous. Not that I've ever done that.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Jellric]
    #810616 - 08/11/02 11:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Here's another example:

if God showed Himself on earth and told all the sodomites that what they are doing is evil, would they still practice sodomy?

Consider this:

If God showed Himself on eart and told all the rebels (of Allah) that eternal punishment for disbelief is a reality, would they still rebel?


Jellric, Jeffrey Dahmer read the Bible daily and spoke for hours often with the reverend who baptized him while serving a nearly 500 year sentence for his crimes.

I'm not saying Jeffrey Dahmer is an angel. He will likely spend a very, very long time in Hell before he finally gets rewarded the lowest level (I'm assuming, not speaking for God) of Paradise (Heaven is divided into seven levels based on good deeds and vise versa for Hell for bad deeds. The very righteous inhabit the highest level of Heaven while the disbelievers and suicides abide in the lowest level of Hell, the level where inmates do not escape). The last man out of Hell will be the most wicked of men who believed in the one God..

Osama bin Laden will likely spend even more time in Hell than Jeffrey Dahmer, considering Osama killed nearly 4,000 in total with his minions. But when Osama is released from punishment, I imagine he'll recieve a rather high level in Paradise because of his good deeds (he built many mosques in Saudi Arabia, and several hospitals in Afghanistan, to name a few) Unfortunately the deception of Shaytaan made Osama believe what he was doing in the sake of jihad was justified in the eyes of God, just as Ghandi was decieved into believing that he will return to earth again and again after death. This world is complete with deception and pleasure to guide those away from God.


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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
Loc: Here.
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #810637 - 08/11/02 11:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I say the god most often referred to by christians in general isn't the real God at all...just the entity that created us. This particular entity (be he a single being or an entire race) can be (and is in my opinion) a major pain in the ass. This 'god' is the one that feels it's okay to punish the 'wicked' and damn anyone that doesn't follow his rules by the letter. The real God however, is exactly what 'god' should be - an all passionate all forgiving entity that knows nothing outside of love. So if you choose to believe in (and possibly even worship) some cruel hearted bastard of a god, then so be it. I can't change your beliefs any more then you can change mine. But I can tell ya this much though: Ghandi was a great man, and he will be rewarded for his good deeds with or without baptism/holy ghost/whatever (at least as far as I see it anyways)

Well put,


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #810638 - 08/11/02 11:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

But when Osama is released from punishment, I imagine he'll recieve a rather high level in Paradise because of his good deeds

stop.

You are misrepresenting Islam.



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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: Zahid]
    #810640 - 08/11/02 11:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

perhaps that is your intention...


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer [Re: infidelGOD]
    #810642 - 08/11/02 11:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Heh, explain how. He believes in God.


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