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Invisiblederx
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just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED
    #8068185 - 02/25/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was pulled over in tennessee for tailgating behind a van (3 car lengths is what is on the ticket).  the officer asked for consent to search the car and I refused.  I had to wait 45 minutes for a dog to show up and of course, they found 1oz of cannabis.

they arrested me on the spot, seized my automobile, cell phone, all my cash.  I wont be able to have a chance to get any of this back until after may.  What sucks more is the car wasn't even mine.  I had a lot of cash on my because I don't use banks.
FUCK~!

I need help, this is my first offense, first time being arrested.  I don't know what to do.  (i know i need a lawyer, im looking around)

any advice is greatly appreciated.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


Edited by derx (07/11/08 10:05 AM)


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Offlineitsallnines
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068204 - 02/25/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

get a lawyer. first offense? what state do you live in? interesting that they would bother with the dog. also, how did the dog find it if you wouldn't let the dog in the car?


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068206 - 02/25/08 11:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: smily]
    #8068244 - 02/25/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

smily said:
look at this ???


http://norml.org/pdf_files/state_penalties/NORML_TN_State_Penalties.pdf


:smile:




I've already seen that.  The law in tennessee states more than 14grams is felony possession. 

The dog cop let the dog run around inSIDE my car.  stupid dog couldnt smell the jar of stanky weed though, but they found it after searching for about a hour.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068255 - 02/25/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

BTW:  now im stranded in tennessee with no car, no cellphone and no fucking money. 


FUCK THE :piggy:


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better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068294 - 02/25/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Not consenting to a search doesn't constitute probable cause. There must have been something that would have helped them get a warrant.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: robbyberto]
    #8068301 - 02/25/08 11:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the DOG signalling there was narcotics in the car is probably cause, according to the police. I warrant was not obtained before i was searched, arrested or jailed.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068318 - 02/25/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well that is it then. I'm sure that they also train their dogs to signal for no reason just to have probable cause, but that doesn't apply in your case. I don't get it though. They weren't arresting you for anything, but they made you stay there for 45 minutes? That seems fishy. Tailgating would just be a ticket, right? After the issue a ticket you're free to go. Did you even get a ticket?


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: robbyberto]
    #8068344 - 02/25/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the officer gave me a warning ticket. He said I am free to go, even though a dog is on the way. I asked him if he could repeat this again on video, he restated, you are free to go. You are not under arrest, you don't have to stay here BUT the car is currently under investigation and cannot be moved.

IE. im from 1000 miles away from home and a hour from the closest town, but im free to go. He says, 'you can walk a mile up the road and there is a diner but i think it's closed'


the story is really fishy and fucked up man!


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068352 - 02/25/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

1- I thought they could only walk the dog around your car. I could be wrong there.

2- What do you mean by "stupid dog couldnt smell the jar of stanky weed though, but they found it after searching for about a hour?"


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8068354 - 02/25/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That sounds really bizarre. I think a lawyer may be able to get you out of this. If not, I'm sure the charge will get seal/expunged relatively soon.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #8068356 - 02/25/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i mean, the only thing the dog picked up on was some shake in my grinder that was in the center console, hidden away from view. I had an oz in the backseat in a sealed mason jar. The dog signalled for the grinder but not the oz of weed in the back seat.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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OfflineOjom
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8070262 - 02/25/08 09:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I would definetely get a lawyer. You should be able to beat the charges on the basis of how long it took for the dog to get there. While the officer said you were free to go, they effectively impounded your car which essentially detained you. I don't know where you were pulled over, but it may even have been illegal for you to be a pedestrian along that road. Sounds like the officer was trying to skirt the recent court decision which said that drug dogs must get to the scene in a "reasonable" amount of time which basically equates to the amount of time a normal traffic stop may take.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Ojom]
    #8073416 - 02/26/08 04:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

People can and have gotten off on pounds of narcotics charges based on being unreasonably detained.

You did the right thing and I think you have a good case. Get a good lawyer, it will be worth every penny.

One other thing you need to do is go to the copshop and file a records request. Ask for the police report and all video and audio on your case.

Even though it's highly illegal exculpatory evidence has a habit of getting lost, taped over, camera problems, camera not turned on, etc.. It's a lot harder for them to pull this BS if you request it immediately upon getting released. Getting it yourself will also save you some money in legal fees and will help get a lawyer to take your case in the first place.

There's also a good chance that they'll offer you a misdemeanor charge with just a fine. If that happens you'll have to decide weather the expense of getting a lawyer justifies beating the system.

Good luck!


-FF


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OfflineAndhesEcuador
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: fastfred]
    #8073447 - 02/26/08 05:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

You are gonna be alright, the fact its a felony won't help however.

Get a good lawyer and he will get it severely reduced or taken away completely.

All this means is that you will have to pay a lot of money.

It sucks man. All pigs should have their faces stomped imo.


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Invisibletak
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: AndhesEcuador]
    #8073607 - 02/26/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I was under the impression that they were allowed to detain you for up to 120 minutes without a reason.


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OfflineOjom
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: tak]
    #8074628 - 02/26/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/314/dogsearch.shtml

That article indicates that police cannot detain you merely for a drug dog to get to the scene. If the dog gets there in a reasonable amount of time for a traffic stop then they can use the dog, but without probable cause, or maybe its reasonable suspicion, they can't prolong your detention waiting on the dog to arrive.

That ruling is 5 years old so maybe there is a newer precedent. Thats why you really need a lawyer in this case.


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Ojom]
    #8074944 - 02/26/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for that information. It is reassuring.

does anybody know how much a retainer fee for a lawyer usually is?


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8074992 - 02/26/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

depends friend just hired Bill Panzer for a case he wanted like 10,000 so its gonna vary on par with how heavy weight lawyer ya get.

:smile:


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    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8077469 - 02/27/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

do you look like a hippy? i've been pulled over in tennessee many times, doing retarded stuff and never have i been searched. however my friend had really long hair and looked skaterish/emo and always gets searched.

When I was younger, all in TN:

I was drag racing stoplight to stoplight in the middle of my hometown, got pulled over for 60 in a 40. I got a huge speech (think i was 16 or 17 at the time). Got a ticket and was let go.

Was going 110 mph in a 70 on I-40 at like 2 am, had two 8ths on me in my jacket pocket. Cop got me at 99, I was so nervous that I gave him my debit card instead of my license... He was nice, gave me a ticket, and let me go.

And recently, I had been drinking beer (maybe like 3) and smoking bowl after bowl of some dank, got pulled over for not having my lights on. He let me go no problems.

Just curious, there has to be a reason the cop wanted to search you. Past record? Look like a hippy? Did the car smell like bud? Was it a bad part of town, or a place just known for police to hassel you? Just trying to better understand the story so I can avoid what just happened to you. Getting pulled over and searched for 'tailgaiting' sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

Either way, that sucks a lot man, I would get a lawyer and try to make it go away. My friend got pulled over for the same shit, but in Florida, and all he has to do is a year probation and he gets his record expunged. But he is also in debt to his parents, because his lawyer cost a lot.


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: usg543]
    #8077881 - 02/27/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I am 99% certain it was a combination of having out of state plates and my gf has a liprip and gauged ears. she was driving and he ordered her out of the car without even asking for registration or insurance.

I don't really look like a hippy, more like a mountainman that never shaves.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8078529 - 02/27/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

the problem here is that the officer was somewhat smart about letting you go.

The main decision I'm aware of said the officer cannot detain you past the original traffic stop to get a dog. But can they detain your car? I would think certainly not, but you'll have to get a judge to agree.


This will be a bitch either way


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8078675 - 02/27/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Detaining the transport is the same as detaining the person.

If a car is legal to drive there is no justification for detaining it.

It doesn't sound like they have a case to me. A common tactic for corrupt governments like ours is to get you to spend a bundle of cash retaining a lawyer and then dropping the charges the day before or the day of trial. That way they win either way.


-FF


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InvisibleA3eyedfish
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: fastfred]
    #8087305 - 02/29/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Look, you don't live in that state, it was only an oz., Blow it all off & never go to Tenn. again, prolly yer best option.

Forget the car, forget the cash, you will financially be ahead by just skipping out on the charges & never returning to that state.


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: A3eyedfish]
    #8087667 - 02/29/08 07:55 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

but then you'll have a warrant and unless ya go to the other side of the country to avoid extradition life will suck.

and just getting pulled over would mean most likely a trip to the station just to find out there not gonna extradite still life would suck.

background checks, employment, more headaches.

hope it gets chucked, but time to step up be a man and bend over cant or shouldn't run not wise especially if you are young.

good luck and get a lawyer.

bummer would be to flee and get pulled over again OUCH...


:smile:


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: smily]
    #8087899 - 02/29/08 09:01 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

im not about to run out on this charge. I'm going to fight this one to get all charges drop. It was total bullshit what the officer did to me and I don't want him abusing his powers upon others.

I talked to one lawyer so far, it would be 2500 for him to represent me on my single court day and my seizure hearing. We'll see what happens.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8087942 - 02/29/08 09:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

way to fuckin go !!! thats real cool.

wish ya were in the country of california then ya wouldnt be in such a bind.

:smile:


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    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: smily]
    #8088065 - 02/29/08 09:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

smily: my plans were to move to cali after i finish my undergrad in april. Now i gotta go fuck with this shit in tennesse first, then move to cali.

I cannot wait to get over to the west coast. It's gonna be fun times.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8088206 - 02/29/08 10:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

let us know when ya head this way.

were you on OverGrow????


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    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8089247 - 03/01/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

derx said:
the DOG signalling there was narcotics in the car is probably cause, according to the police.




what made the cop 'suspect' there may be drugs in the car,
he needs to be able to articulate his reasons for having the
dog, again it boils down to probable cause for the officer
or there would have been no reason for him to call for the dog


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8089293 - 03/01/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

city cops are dicks in TN, they do whatever they want. fuck em.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: usg543]
    #8090801 - 03/01/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

it's like that everywhere


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8099707 - 03/03/08 09:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, sounds like a dickhead cop, good luck to you, what a absolute nightmare :frown:


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Invisiblenorml840 Happy Birthday!
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: usg543]
    #8101146 - 03/04/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

if you haven't seen this video you should watch it. if you refuse to let them search they will get the dog just as they did. even if the dog doesn't smell anything (which most of the time they don't), they give commands to make the dog alert or start scratching at your vehicle. then they have probable cause to search. it's fuckin bullshit. this video was made by an ex cop who reveals all their dirty tricks. i can't find the google video, but its on youtube. its broken up into 9 videos. here's part 1. you can find parts 2-9 from there.Never Get Busted Again part 1 of 9


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: usg543]
    #8122433 - 03/09/08 05:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

plead guilty to possession, claim it was for personal use.

explain you had w.e amount of cash you had on you because you don't use a bank if it was over 200$ say you were going to buy rockband for xbox 360 or something.

first offence you should be fine. I know people caught slanging crack who didn't search jail time :P


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: flavoraid]
    #8122765 - 03/09/08 09:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

that's advice I wouldnt follow


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8123099 - 03/09/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

i am definetly not pleading guilty, it was an illegal search and seizure.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: flavoraid]
    #8123153 - 03/09/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

flavoraid said:
...
first offence you should be fine. I know people caught slanging crack who didn't search jail time :P




I always wince when I hear people say this crap.

Just cuz you know a murderer that got a good plea bargain, and got probation, doesn't mean shit.

Cases are individualized. Maybe the police roughed the guy up, and they agreed to go light if he didn't sue. Maybe the trial judge was a prick but the search would be questionable on appeal. Maybe the evidence is shitty, and the prosecution would prefer the guy take probation rather than worry about preparing for trial and finding all those witnesses.

And the major factor, sentences and plea bargains are highly dependant on the law and jurisdiction your in.

What you get one county over will not be the same as the next county.

What you get in one state sure as hell isn't what you'll get in the next.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8123196 - 03/09/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

pleading guilty is always better than pleading innocent and being found guilty.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: flavoraid]
    #8123206 - 03/09/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

wrong.


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OfflineChemy
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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: flavoraid]
    #8123253 - 03/09/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8123284 - 03/09/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Now I've watched Matlock all my life and I've never heard anyone plead "innocent".... If you know anything about the courts thats enough reason to disregard him all together.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: YidakiMan]
    #8123955 - 03/09/08 04:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
Now I've watched Matlock all my life and I've never heard anyone plead "innocent"....





I heard about juries coming back with innocent verdicts but no pleas of innocent


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OfflineKliNiK
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8123980 - 03/09/08 04:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Were you smoking in the car before you got pulled over? If the officer smelled something "funny" then that might of been the reason he actually called in the dog. Either that or you just looked down right suspicious. You should get a lawyer and see what he says I don't know how it is where you live I'm from Texas and they would have called in the dogs just for driving black or Mexican lol. Check out this website, it gives good tips for handling encounters with the law. www.flexyourrights.org


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: KliNiK]
    #8124007 - 03/09/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

often time cops say they smell something just to claim they
had probable cause, since everything is recorded I always
give a verbal response "I understand that you have to say
that officer in order to try and validate you're claim for
probable cause"


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InvisibleTYL3R
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8124309 - 03/09/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

That you for that :heart:

I love yew.


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Offlineponetony
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: usg543]
    #8129436 - 03/10/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

if you had to wait 45 minutes for the k9 all the while you were being detained without probable cause. the fact you were detained without the probably cause in the first place seems like at least some grounds to argue in court to de-validify the clains of the officer. also keep your shit locked in the trunk or glove box because then even if they have cause to think there is pot they still no matter what need a warrant to open those if they are locked to begin with. they can only get you one what is easily accessible in your car without a warrant and only probable cause


--------------------
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: ponetony]
    #8129470 - 03/10/08 09:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, lots wrong in that statement ponetony.

They can do a safety search of everything accessible to the people in the car without any probable cause. (AKA terry stop) With probable cause, like "I smell weed", they can search your entire car including the trunk. With any probable cause they don't need a warrant for anything.


-FF


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: fastfred]
    #8129660 - 03/10/08 09:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

correct fastfred!

I appreciate the help and support guys. Believe me, I'm not a stupid person and I did everything in my power to keep the cops from finding my stash. I've seen the video from the ex cop a dozen times before this incident and it helped me handle myself. I didn't even have to think about anything when he asked to search, my mouth automatically responded with "i do not consent to any searches, sir"

thanks everybody!


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinesmily
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8131183 - 03/11/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
  "I understand that you have to say
that officer in order to try and validate you're claim for
probable cause"




i really like that!!!!

:smile:


--------------------


    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: smily]
    #8141625 - 03/13/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I learned it from a crackhead, cop said he smelled weed in
the car, fucker never smokes weed, if the cop had said beer
it would be a different story


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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8144414 - 03/14/08 12:23 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Good luck man, I'm rooting for you. Hopefully all goes well and your lawyer does his job. F the WOD.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8145315 - 03/14/08 09:41 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

derx said:
the officer gave me a warning ticket.  He said I am free to go, even though a dog is on the way.  I asked him if he could repeat this again on video, he restated, you are free to go.  You are not under arrest, you don't have to stay here BUT the car is currently under investigation and cannot be moved.

the story is really fishy and fucked up man! 



It is SO fucking sketchy! If it was a felony, how can he just ticket you and let you go? Something's not right here. Get a lawyer. Good luck, my fellow felon.:)


--------------------



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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8145347 - 03/14/08 09:50 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

derx said:

does anybody know how much a retainer fee for a lawyer usually is?



Average retainer fee for a good lawyer is around 500-1,000 bucks. Believe me, I have been doing NOTHING but talking to lawyers and secretaries for the past few days.:bored: Most of them do payment plans, too. Thank god!


--------------------



:murray:


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8145481 - 03/14/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chemy said:
Quote:

flavoraid said:
pleading guilty is always better than pleading innocent and being found guilty.



Thats not true, and is a popular misconception that being found guilty at trial will result in a max-out sentence.

Whether you are found guilty or plea guilty the guidelines must be followed unless the trial court has an applicable reason for departure from guidelines. And the defendant plea is not a reason for departure.




It's like a rule amongst judges to knock off a year or two for pleading guilty and saving the courts time. At least in Canada. I'm taking Law and it's been mentioned several times.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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OfflineChemy
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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: flavoraid]
    #8145769 - 03/14/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8145790 - 03/14/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I'm canadian so there are differences.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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OfflineChemy
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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: blissedout]
    #8145825 - 03/14/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!


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Invisiblederx
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8146023 - 03/14/08 01:06 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

thanks chemy, i appreciate any and all information that could possibly help. This has given me a motivation to not go to graduate school in chemistry and study law. Maybe I'll do both but I want to help people out that are getting raped by the system.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8146585 - 03/14/08 04:20 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

why don't we just stick with escaping/avoiding the system?

let others fare for themselves. also, this country doesn't need another lawyer, even if it is one working for the right causes/reasons


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineChemy
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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: demiu5]
    #8146623 - 03/14/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8146736 - 03/14/08 05:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chemy said:
Quote:

demius said:
why don't we just stick with escaping/avoiding the system?




So the system can become even stronger, without the enlightened to spark doubt in the sheeps minds.
Quote:

demius said:

let others fare for themselves. also, this country doesn't need another lawyer, even if it is one working for the right causes/reasons



That is exactly what this country needs, I would love to become an attorney and take as many pro bono cases (all personal use drug cases) and help as many as possible get a fair shake in the biased criminal justice system.
Unfortunatly I can not join the Florida BAR which means even if I did graduate the best I could do is paralegal which is BS.





the first quote was more of a personal comment regarding conversations derx and i have had since the summer.

and i'm sorry, but i don't feel the need to help others like you do. i'm responsible for myself and my actions only (until i have a family). again, i say let the other "sheep" fare for themselves and figure it out on their own


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: demiu5]
    #8147170 - 03/14/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I learned just about everything in my life thus far the hard way. At least I have learned alot in my experiences that have and will continue to help me to better function and maneuver through the rest of my days here on earth. I'm still a fool, obviously, but there's alot to be said for wisdom and experience.

I'm not sure where I'm going here, but I just felt the need to say that. :gonzo:


--------------------



:murray:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: blissedout]
    #8147486 - 03/14/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

you typically don't learn unless you fall flat on your face and then have to pick yourself up (speaking generally)


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8152986 - 03/16/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chemy said:
in Florida an officer must arrest someone that has committed or is committing a felony




it's at the officers discretion, even with a murder charge, the evidence can be damning but in some instances the cops dont arrest


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8154668 - 03/16/08 07:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

they can't hold you for 45 minutes on a traffic violation while they wait for a dog.

they need something to establish probable cause. if they didn't, it's not a hard case to fight. the precedent has already been established by the courts for this exact situation.

why do you think he was so sure he'd find drugs? i've been pulled over 7 or 8 times and the cops have never asked to search my car.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: wilshire]
    #8156196 - 03/17/08 05:25 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> i've been pulled over 7 or 8 times and the cops have never asked to search my car.

I've been pulled over one time (for a burned out license plate light) and they searched my car... though after the search when the cop asked where I worked, and realized what I did for a living and that I wasn't a college kid, his attitude quickly changed and off I went on my way. This was over a decade ago, but I doubt things have changed... had I been wearing a suit and tie rather than "lab clothes" (old clothes on their last thread), I doubt he would have searched.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Seuss]
    #8157894 - 03/17/08 03:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

]
Quote:

why do you think he was so sure he'd find drugs? i've been pulled over 7 or 8 times and the cops have never asked to search my car.





One of my bigger pet peaves w/ people and the police is projecting their experiences onto others' stories. I'm not saying you are doing that, you may just be curious, but I've had plenty others do that.

I have no convictions on my record except for a trespassing (50 fine related to a protest I was at many years ago I'll get expunged one of these days) yet I've been asked to be searched several times. every time I refuse, and every time I've had the drug dogs called. One of those times the dog allerted, falsely (I think the officer commanded him to or lied and said he did), and the car was searched.

Like it or not, cops associate young folks w/ drug users, and drug users can get their cars taken and auctioned for the police in many areas. Additionally, only about 5% of the population will refuse a search when asked by the cops, and many of these are probably guilty. I'm one of those quaint folks that has never had drugs in the car when I've been asked to consent (actually never had drugs in the car period). Every time the cops are convinced its cuz I'm holding... They couldn't imagine I just
1) Don't want people fucking around in my car
2) Don't like the police and especially don't want the m in my car.


Everyone claiming that this case is cut and dry needs to shut up untill they can find the precedent.

The case refered to so far dealt w/ detaining a person untill a drug dog came. Not a car.

I agree that in this case there was an effective seizure of the person as without the car he was not free to go, and it is unreasonable to expect someone to abandon their car, however; untill someone finds a case on point, that states there is no distinction between a seizure of the car or a seizure of the person, I don't think its wise to claim this is cut and dry.

Property and persons are different in the eyes of the law. Property can be held easier than the person. In this case I don't think it was permissible to hold either, but lets not say its so cut and dry when the only case raised neglected the treatment of the car, and focused on the treatment of the individual.


A better place to look would be for state case law that says whether or not their is such a distinction, or whether or not the officer may seize a car untill a dog comes..



The other problem, of course, is we don't know what the officer will say at the suppression hearing. Will he be honest and just say he though their were drugs involved cuz the guy refused the search and appeared of the age, dress, and demeanor of people he associated w/ drugs, or will he claim he smelled things, saw bloodshot eyes, furtive movements, et cet.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8158179 - 03/17/08 04:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

i've been pulled over 3 times since earning a felony drug record. i have never been searched, or asked to consent to a search, from a traffic stop.

there is a reason that cops tend to find drugs when they search for them. just trying to get a handle on what it is.

"Everyone claiming that this case is cut and dry needs to shut up untill they can find the precedent."

i didn't read the entire thread. i assumed someone would have posted it already. here it is:

" Here, the initial seizure of respondent when he was stopped on the highway was based on probable cause, and was concededly lawful. It is nevertheless clear that a seizure that is lawful at its inception can violate the Fourth Amendment if its manner of execution unreasonably infringes interests protected by the Constitution. United States v. Jacobsen, 466 U. S. 109, 124 (1984). A seizure that is justified solely by the interest in issuing a warning ticket to the driver can become unlawful if it is prolonged beyond the time reasonably required to complete that mission. In an earlier case involving a dog sniff that occurred during an unreasonably prolonged traffic stop, the Illinois Supreme Court held that use of the dog and the subsequent discovery of contraband were the product of an unconstitutional seizure. People v. Cox, 202 Ill. 2d 462, 782 N. E. 2d 275 (2002)."

- the supreme court of the united states (my emphasis)


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Invisibleblissedout
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: wilshire]
    #8158553 - 03/17/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Excellent info, people! Thanks for your insights on this, as I am currently in abit of a ditch myself, so to speak.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: wilshire]
    #8158717 - 03/17/08 07:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

The language you cite belies the conclusion that this case is cut and dry.

You cite Illinois v. CABALLES, however; this case didn't consider a situation analogous to the instant case. It considered the question
“Whether the Fourth Amendment requires reasonable, articulable suspicion to justify using a drug-detection dog to sniff a vehicle during a legitimate traffic stop.”

and answered in the negative. This doesn't implicate the instant case. The dicta you cite, moreover, doesn't address the issue. Its conceded that the seizure of a person for longer than is neccesary to affect the traffic stop is illegal absent articulable suspicion, however; it doesn't address the seizure of the vehicle.

This is the question.

Hopefully there is some authority beyond that presented so far, however; even if there isn't, hopefully the court won't distinguish between the person and the car, as its hard to imagine a person being free to go, and their car not.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8158855 - 03/17/08 07:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

What grounds would justify seizing a person's property if you don't even have cause to detain the person?

I would argue that seizing a someone's personal property is above and beyond simply detaining the person.

You can't "detain" a car or other inanimate objects. If a person is free to leave then they are free to take their personal property with them. To deny this is a seizure of property, which in most cases requires a greater justification than simply detaining a person for a short while. Further, seizure of property requires more proof of probable cause than even a search, it usually requires actual evidence of a crime rather than simple probable cause. Probable cause gives police the ability to detain people and search their effects, usually not the ability to seize property right off the bat. Even though search and seizure is melded together in the constitution I think it's usually understood that seizure is a greater burden than just a search (which they didn't even have cause for in the first place).

Quote:

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution ensures citizens' right to "be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures …" The amendment goes on to set forth the conditions under which a warrant may be issued: "no warrant shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."




I wouldn't say the case is "cut and dried", but it seems pretty clear to me that they seized his property (e.g. removed it from his possession or control) without a warrant or probable cause.

It's actually good that they told him he was free to go, but seized his vehicle. This demonstrates that they had no probable cause to detain him or search the vehicle. Without this they certainly had no cause to seize his property.

I'd say it should be even easier to win than if they had detained him and his car for the drug dog to arrive since you should be able to dispense with most of the "how long is reasonable for a traffic stop" bullshit.

Derx, I'd settle for nothing less than complete dismissal of all charges. Even if you were to lose it would be worth appealing.


-FF


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: smily]
    #8158945 - 03/17/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Allright Derx... I think I may have found something for you almost exactly on point. This was in Tenn. right?

If so, this is the federal appeals court for that jurisdiction, and they considered the US constitution and came to a conclusion you'll like. This should be binding upon your court, although its a federal case, it reached its decision on the fourth amendment to the us const., which is binding upon your court. The case is:

USA v. KEITH PRESLEY (03-1451); 430 F.3d 345; 6th Cir. 2005

Couple points...


Same thing, officers pulled a guy over. Then some cops relayed information to the officer who made the stop that the individual was reasonably suspected of having tons of coke. So the officers did have reasonable suspicion (we're assuming they didn't with you).


"There is also no evidence in the record that the additional approximately thirty-minute delay of Davis and his vehicle while the first drug-sniffing dog was located and procured was unreasonable in light of the officers' reasonable suspicions."


I believe that it took about 45min for the dog to get to you right? Well unless the cop lies, it sounds like this caveat won't hurt you, as this guy in the case had a slew of cops on his tail that informed the officer pulling him over of his liklihood of having coke.


Second, the actual reason this case was found to be unreasonable isn't related to you that closely, as the first dog didn't alert, and the second one took an hour or so. The point that this case establishes is that their is no difference between seizing the car or the person and the car. This is good news, though I'd hope even without this case that would be obvious.

Quote:

The trooper informed Davis that his Range Rover could not be moved, as the police were waiting for a drug-sniffing dog to be brought to the scene. The trooper offered, however, to give Davis a ride to the next service station on the highway. Davis declined the trooper's offer.






Here's the part of the opinion where they discuss the seizure of the car as seperate from the seizure of the person. In this case, like yours, the suspect was free to go, but that did not cure any defect in the search, and the court holds that their is no difference between the person and the property.


This part of the opinion picks up after the first dog failed to alert, but its analogous to your case. In this case the officer had DEA and state police on the scene giving reasonable suspicion that their was cocaine in the car- not so w/ you. So this is pretty much the analysis applicable to you in the begining, absence of reasonable articulable suspicion, and a detention of a vehicle while the person is free to go. (note, this doesn't hold if the officer lies to the court and is able to convince the court that their was articulable suspicion that you held drugs... then they could hold you till the dog comes. Hopefully you weren't making furitive movements or otherwise appearing quite nervous, and the officer doesn't lie, and this won't be an issue):

Quote:

Given that the police had no reason to continue to suspect that Davis possessed narcotics, delaying Davis's vehicle an additional hour in order to permit a second examination of the vehicle by another drug-sniffing dog was unreasonable. The use of the second dog and the continued detention of Davis's vehicle served no investigatory purpose. See Sharpe, 470 U.S. at 685 (emphasizing "the need to consider the law enforcement purposes to be served by the stop as well as the time reasonably needed to effectuate those purposes"). The police already had confirmation from Rocky that no narcotics were in the vehicle. Thus, to delay Davis another hour in order to permit a second search of the vehicle simply delayed the release of Davis and his vehicle without any investigatory purpose. Such a delay is specifically prohibited by the Fourth Amendment. See Heath, 259 F.3d at 530 [**27] (indicating that once officers use "all appropriate means available to them to allay their concerns of criminal activity" they may not detain a suspect absent probable cause); United States v. Butler, 223 F.3d 368, 375 (6th Cir. 2000). We therefore must conclude that this additional delay was unreasonable and violated Davis's Fourth Amendment rights.

We have repeatedly held that HN8Go to this Headnote in the case.a detention of property based upon reasonable suspicion may continue only for so long as it takes the officer to prove or disprove those suspicions.






So I guess the question was, sorry if you said this before.....


Did you make sudden movements when pulled over? Where you sweating profusely, acting nervous, et cet. Did you lie to the cop about where you were going or anything else? Did you smell like marijuana, alcohol, or strongly of cologne? All these things could be give rise to cause to detain you. If not, and the cop doesn't lie, and there's nothing else, seems to me you might have a good case.


Again, I hope I'm not getting your hopes up to much... I'm not a lawyer and have no training, so definitly talk to your lawyer about this. I'm just trying to help man. Good luck



For those interested, background of the case:







Here's the facts of the case:

Quote:

Cook County investigators notified Indiana State Troopers of their suspicion that the Range Rover was carrying contraband, and shortly after Davis crossed into Indiana at approximately 6:45 p.m., an Indiana State Trooper stopped Davis for speeding. Soon after Davis was stopped, the Cook County investigators who had been following Davis arrived on the scene. The investigators informed the trooper that they believed Davis was carrying narcotics in his vehicle. The Indiana trooper approached the Range Rover and asked Davis for his driver's license and car registration, which Davis gave to the trooper. [**6] The trooper then issued Davis a warning for speeding and asked whether Davis would consent to a search of his vehicle. [*350] Davis refused and asked whether he was free to leave. The trooper informed Davis that his Range Rover could not be moved, as the police were waiting for a drug-sniffing dog to be brought to the scene. The trooper offered, however, to give Davis a ride to the next service station on the highway. Davis declined the trooper's offer. Davis remained in the Range Rover throughout the stop and made several telephone calls on his cellular phone during the stop.

At approximately 7:00 p.m., Lake Station, Indiana, Canine Supervisor Tim Craigin ("Officer Craigin") was notified that a drug-sniffing dog was needed at the location. Officer Craigin arrived on the scene with his dog Rocky at approximately 7:15 p.m. Upon his arrival, Officer Craigin spoke with the officers on the scene and then walked Rocky around Davis's Range Rover. While Rocky showed some interest in the rear hatch area of the vehicle, Rocky did not alert positively to the presence of narcotics in the vehicle. Officer Craigin then placed Rocky back into his vehicle at approximately 7:30 p.m. and advised investigating [**7] police of the results of the search.

At approximately 7:20 p.m., DEA Special Agent Vince Balbo ("Agent Balbo") arrived on the scene and took charge of the investigation. From the record it is unclear whether Agent Balbo was aware of the fact that a drug-sniffing dog had already been used to search Davis's vehicle. Nonetheless, Agent Balbo contacted a neighboring county, Lake County, Indiana, to request that a drug-sniffing dog be sent to the scene. Lake County Deputy Murchek arrived on the scene at approximately 8:20 p.m. with his dog Sabor. Deputy Murchek took Sabor around the vehicle, and the dog alerted to the rear hatch area of the Range Rover. Indiana state police then obtained a search warrant for the Range Rover based on the surveillance observations and Sabor's alert.




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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8158965 - 03/17/08 07:59 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


It's actually good that they told him he was free to go, but seized his vehicle. This demonstrates that they had no probable cause to detain him or search the vehicle. Without this they certainly had no cause to seize his property.

I'd say it should be even easier to win than if they had detained him and his car for the drug dog to arrive since you should be able to dispense with most of the "how long is reasonable for a traffic stop" bullshit.




yeah, I was thinking the same thing


Anyways, the attached case above shows that their is identical treatment to the person and their effects for fourth amendment consideration


It hinges on the reasonable suspicion. An officer can detain without consent a person or his effects only as long as it takes to confirm or dispell the suspicion. If the resonable suspicion doesn't exist in the first place (like in this case) there is no cause to detain the person past the initial stop.


But that's the catch, like we all recognize. What will the cop say?


Hopefully he'll be convinced that letting him go, while detaining the car, will be enough to circumvent the law, and he won't feel the need to, or be pressured to, lie and create suspicion.

Unfortunatly, it would be difficult to get this evidence supressed if the cop lies like hell... But w/ vidoe cameras and maybe a microphone, there's only so much stuff he can say. Hopefully he doesn't claim he smelled pot.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: johnm214]
    #8159211 - 03/17/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

He's already filed his report, so he's more or less bound by what he said back when the dildo thought he had a slam-dunk case.

Then again, lot's of cops lie right off the bat and make up bullshit in order to make you sound bad or support their case.

Many judges are pretty cool and hold cops to a pretty high standard. I've seen more than one case thrown out when a cop seemed foolish on the stand and couldn't articulate his reasoning. There's one wacky judge in my locale that will actually grill cops on the stand if their answers aren't direct statements of fact.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: fastfred]
    #8159672 - 03/17/08 10:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

god damn, I never expected to receive so many responses. Thank you Fred and John for the information provided.

What worries me is that my girlfriend and I just smoked a couple bowls about 1-2 hours before being pulled over. We certainly did not smell like marijuana but it's possible that our eyes may have been bloodshot.

After being arrested, the officer was pretty cool with me. He said that MJ isn't his primary concern, DUI is. But it's still a felony so he has to take me in. While in the car, he even admitted to me that he smoked back when he was younger, before joining the marines.

The situation irks me to this day, I usually find myself replaying the situation over in my head every night before bed.


On another note: I still do not have a lawyer. I've never had to have a lawyer before and I don't really know much about obtaining a good lawyer. I found 6 different lawyers on NORML's website that are near nashville. One of these lawyers I spoke with directly and he told me it sounds like I have a good case and that he would represent me in the scheduled court day and my seizure hearing for $2500. If the case has to go further, it will cost more. I did not ask how much. My problem with him is that he doesn't usually deal with cases in the county I was in, so he probablly doesn't have a relationship with the judge already. However, he does deal with drug charges, especially from bonnaroo (manchester).

My question is, what information should I find out from these lawyers? What should I ask them and how do I choose a good lawyer that can certainly win the case. Should I look for a lawyer who is established in the county court where my case is? or does this not matter as much?


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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: derx]
    #8159700 - 03/17/08 10:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8159799 - 03/17/08 10:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Is there anything I can do to get my phone back soon? There was no reason to seize my phone. The phone wasn't even taken from me until I was at the cop shop just chilling and he asked to see my phone. I pulled it out of my pocket and handed it to him and then he kept it.

The phone is property of my mother as is the car. The phone is under an active contract with verizon, so I'm paying for something I cannot even use, unless I buy a new phone.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: derx]
    #8160717 - 03/18/08 04:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> Is there anything I can do to get my phone back soon?

Quote:

(g) Motion to Return Property.

A person aggrieved by an unlawful search and seizure of property or by the deprivation of property may move for the property’s return. The motion must be filed in the district where the property was seized. The court must receive evidence on any factual issue necessary to decide the motion. If it grants the motion, the court must return the property to the movant, but may impose reasonable conditions to protect access to the property and its use in later proceedings.




So you need to go and file the motion if the cops won't give it back to you. They have no cause to keep the phone so I'd be a bit surprised if they didn't return it.

They violated some rules by not inventorying it and filing a copy. They also should have had another officer present during the seizure inventory.

It will cost you a filing fee to file the motion most likely. Motions are usually heard fairly quickly, so it probably won't be terribly difficult.

As far as your question about finding a lawyer... I suggest that you round up all your paperwork (file for the police report at the copshop and go to the courthouse to get affidavits) then go around and consult with each of the local lawyers about your case. You don't need to go local but it might cost less and they know how the judge will rule on most arguments.

Your consultation should be free. The lawyer should read your report and paperwork and tell you what they think. Then you can detail your story briefly. Ask them how much experience they have in the area and how much they will charge you. A good tip to follow is to tell them that you wanted to consult at least one other lawyer just to get two perspectives on your case and ask them if they could recommend a good lawyer who has experience with your type of case.

If you do things right you can come out with several hours of free legal advice from multiple lawyers and also find out who the real superstar is in town. It's always interesting to see who all the lawyers recommend.

But you must get all your paperwork, and that can take a few days. If you don't find a lawyer ask the judge at pretrial for a continuance, with your reason being that you are still attempting to find representation. 99% of the time you will get it no problem.

I would also probably request all the video and audio. It will cost you a bit, but otherwise you'll be paying your lawyer to do it for you later during discovery. It's also really good to have everything available when shopping for a lawyer.

When lawyer shopping call ahead for an appointment and drop off or mail your paperwork to them ahead of time, that way you get your best consultation advice.

Also any lawyer you're thinking of going with, it doesn't hurt to ask another lawyer about them. Just say so and so recommended this guy is he any good? If you're lucky your first lawyer will run down every other lawyer in town and you'll figure out who's best.

That's my advice for finding the best lawyer. Luckily last time I needed one I already knew who was the best in town. A lawyer who's mere name drop gets you respect.

Last tip... don't tell the lawyers that you've been getting all your legal advice so far from a mushroom board.


-FF


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Re: just arrested with felony possession *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
    #8160738 - 03/18/08 05:08 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: Chemy]
    #8160859 - 03/18/08 06:34 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

John already has a sticky and most of my knowledge comes from experience, I don't do a lot of research. I like giving advice and trying to help people out, but I don't really have the time to research and write up a bunch of stuff of the quality required to constitute credible legal advice. John's done some real good work with his sticky and I'm sure it's helped a lot of people.

All the stuff is archived too, so if people UTFSE they'll find plenty of my advice. They can even plug in my username if they want to read my rants.

I'm not only not a lawyer I'm also a non-doctor too.


-FF


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Re: just arrested with felony possession [Re: fastfred]
    #8161601 - 03/18/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I did receive a seizure notice where he inventoried my cell phone, my 1600$, my moms car and my "1.1oz marijuana"


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: derx]
    #8625474 - 07/12/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Update:

well after 3 sessions of court, my charges are dropped.

my lawyer filed a suppression of evidence because not only was my detention for 1 hour while waiting for a dog unconstitutional, the reason for the original stop "following too closely" was previously declared unstatue in tennessee.

We reached a compromise:  they drop all the drug charges and I have to pay court costs for "following too closely"  exactly $300.

They rape your ass one way or another. 

Is there anything I can do as far as filing a formal complaint against the officer?  He is just going to continue illegally arresting and seizing citizens.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: derx]
    #8625504 - 07/12/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Have your lawyer file the complaint, otherwise you have to go to the police department and be interviewed by the shift supervisor or LT. I don't know how understanding your local officers are, but here in South Florida there was an undercover news report done with people filing complaints, and officers followed people out and attacked or harassed them in the police department parking lot.

Ask your lawyer just to be safe.

To answer your question, yes you can and should file a complaint, they broke the law and should have a negative strike against their record in their personnel file.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: derx]
    #8625574 - 07/12/08 01:47 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

congrats on getting the charges dropped though


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: usg543]
    #8625684 - 07/12/08 02:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for following through with this story and letting us know.


Glad they decided not to fight it.  So you never got a decision on your motion to suppress or exclude or whatever?


Glad you got out of it.  I don't see how they can hold your car and still say your "free to go"- that's some bullshit.


Fuck the police and their "clever" ways around the fourth amendment... Glad that piggy's tricks didn't work with the prosecutor.



Yes file a complaint.


I have and nothing happened.  They also can fuck with you.  Bring a tape recorder or digital recorder with you so you can hear the bullshit they say to you- if anything.


Then file another one against whoever fucks with you/sue em, if anyone actually gives you shit.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: johnm214]
    #8626974 - 07/12/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:


I have and nothing happened.  They also can fuck with you.  Bring a tape recorder or digital recorder with you so you can hear the bullshit they say to you- if anything.






I don't know the law on recording conversations in TN, but you would be wise to be knowledgeable about it if you decide to record yourself filing a complaint.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: Ojom]
    #8627332 - 07/12/08 10:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I suppose your right.  I'd more likely be knowledgable about it if I decided to release the tape to anyone but myself.

Check if your state requires more than one party consent to tape a conversation.  Most don't, and mine doesn't.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: johnm214]
    #8639898 - 07/15/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It's more than just two party consent.  I remember being outraged about a case some time back about a guy who recorded the conversation between him and the cop who pulled him over being convicted on it.  Even though the taped proved the cop was harassing him or falsely charging him, it wasn't allowed and he got an additional charge for the recording.  Something about it being a cop meant you couldn't record it.

I'll try to find it.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #8647634 - 07/17/08 03:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

If both you and the person/people being recorded are aware of the recording, it should be legal. If it's hidden then you are in trouble, only cops can do that. They don't have to give you permission but as long as they are aware, it should stand up. That may vary from state to state so don't take it as gospel.

I've heard of cases where the cop just grabbed the recorder and destroyed it. Fortunately, lots of police depts are routinely recording all traffic stops. In some cases the cops have a mike right on them. In other cases the cop car has the video and audio recorder. Quite a few cops have gotten into trouble because of that. They must have forgotten it was all being recorded.


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8650050 - 07/18/08 07:13 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

no, it varies by state.

Under FCC and many state laws, one party consent is all that's needed (some states the recording must be for a person in the conversation though).


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: johnm214]
    #8654421 - 07/19/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

only a handful of states restrict taping of calls/conversations, a
few require 2 party consent most as you stated only one of the
persons involved need to have knowledge, as far as I'm aware, no
states allow recording by a 3rd party without the consent of at
least one involved in the conversations


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Re: just arrested with felony possession UPDATE: charges DROPPED [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8655927 - 07/19/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Like people said, it will vary by state. You probably are pretty safe with a microphone/camera though. Recording can be an invasion of privacy only if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in that circumstance. Public areas afford no expectation of privacy, so you should be clear. Furthermore, if the officer is using a department recording device, it can be argued that he already knew the conversation was not private and a recording would be made available later on. Just because that recording got "lost" or the equipment "malfunctioned" doesn't change his expectation of privacy since he will claim that the problem with his recording was discovered later.


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