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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Buddha and the Eightfold Path
    #8059735 - 02/23/08 12:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Can one be a Buddhist and pretend the Eightfold Path only need be followed when one feels like it?

Is consciously telling lies a part of Right Speech? I don't think so. Is it a sufficent excuse to merely state that we are all imperfect?

If that is so, why have a code to live by if one arbitrarily chooses when and where to live by it?

The same question holds for all religions/philosophies and their moral guidelines.


"Hey, I didn't fuck the neighbor's wife today. Of course, the fact that she is hideous and not interested in me is beside the point. I followed the Ten Commandments. Yay me!"

"Woot! Woot! A new hottie moved in across the street. We had tea and one thing led to another. If my wife wasn't such a shrew and her hubby so neglectful, we probably would not have ended up in bed. So I broke a commandment. So what? Jeebus will forgive me."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8059769 - 02/23/08 12:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Humanity is weak. We try to live up to ideals we set and then fall over and over. That's why I'm very careful about that shit. I expect very little of myself.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Icelander]
    #8059781 - 02/23/08 12:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Are such codes merely props to our egos then? Do they have any utilitarian value whatsoever?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8059939 - 02/23/08 01:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think they are props. The benefit may be in that it controls our behavior and allows us to live together in only minor misery.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Icelander]
    #8059960 - 02/23/08 01:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

If it controlled our behaviour then why do atheists have a lower divorce rate than fundamentalist Christians?

I don't believe an external code has any affect whatsoever except when others are looking.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8060031 - 02/23/08 01:45 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe I should have said "attempts" to control our behavior. Nothing really controls behavior outside of the individual.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8060160 - 02/23/08 02:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Can one be a Buddhist and pretend the Eightfold Path only need be followed when one feels like it?

Is consciously telling lies a part of Right Speech? I don't think so. Is it a sufficient excuse to merely state that we are all imperfect?

If that is so, why have a code to live by if one arbitrarily chooses when and where to live by it?

The same question holds for all religions/philosophies and their moral guidelines.


"Hey, I didn't fuck the neighbor's wife today. Of course, the fact that she is hideous and not interested in me is beside the point. I followed the Ten Commandments. Yay me!"

"Woot! Woot! A new hottie moved in across the street. We had tea and one thing led to another. If my wife wasn't such a shrew and her hubby so neglectful, we probably would not have ended up in bed. So I broke a commandment. So what? Jeebus will forgive me."




The eight-fold path is a set of guidelines not commandments. This is a problem with being brought up in a Christian society. People get the point totally wrong and think they have to be perfect when following guidelines. The cornerstone of Buddhist practice is that it is a practice. You do not get down on yourself when you fail as making mistakes is part of discovering your weaknesses and limitations that need to be worked on. Its like racquetball. You improve with time, patience and practice :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Sinbad]
    #8060182 - 02/23/08 02:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Who's Sinbad?:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Icelander]
    #8060209 - 02/23/08 02:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Who's Sinbad?:confused:




If only you knew. :smirk:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Sinbad]
    #8060214 - 02/23/08 02:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Honing an athletic skill is one thing and takes practice to go from A to Z.

Why does one need to practice not doing something wrong? I fail to grasp the concept. Can one just 'not murder' without repetition and effort?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8060219 - 02/23/08 02:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #8060293 - 02/23/08 02:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Just as I pictured him.

Now if Ped shows up I'm going to get scared.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8060692 - 02/23/08 04:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Can one be a Buddhist and pretend the Eightfold Path only need be followed when one feels like it?




Well of course one can pretend! That doesn't make it the truth though.

Quote:

Is consciously telling lies a part of Right Speech? I don't think so. Is it a sufficent excuse to merely state that we are all imperfect?




It can be. Right Speech has many aspects, for instance compassion. Consciously lying that you were hiding Jews in the attic during the Holocaust would certainly be part of Right Speech, for instance. There's no need to make excuses for deviating from the precepts or the 8fold path, as Sinbad talked about.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8062446 - 02/23/08 11:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Can one be a Buddhist and pretend the Eightfold Path only need be followed when one feels like it?

Is consciously telling lies a part of Right Speech? I don't think so. Is it a sufficent excuse to merely state that we are all imperfect?





Yes, you can be a Buddhist and not follow the eightfold path. It is a methodology for achieving awakening, not a list of morals. Buddhism has become somewhat institutionalized since its birth, with different monasteries and sects adopting different Buddhist lifestyles. Depending on who you learn from, one may view the eightfold path as being authoritative, rather than advisory.

The ten commandments are not analogous because you don't have to believe in their values to attempt to live by them, you just have to fear God's wrath.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8063630 - 02/24/08 10:56 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Buddhism has become somewhat institutionalized since its birth, with different monasteries and sects adopting different Buddhist lifestyles. Depending on who you learn from, one may view the eightfold path as being authoritative, rather than advisory.




So which sect is the correct one? And if there is no 'correct one', then what is the point of any of them?


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: adrug]
    #8063641 - 02/24/08 11:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The point of all of them is to live without suffering. Or maybe it's more accurate to say the point is whatever each individual seeks from practicing Buddhism.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlineharoldmeeks
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Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 77
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8064081 - 02/24/08 01:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

budder nd yaseus wer talking to the garden
when johny said pow
and buddha went wow!

now.

brown
cow
heheheh

raow


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8064091 - 02/24/08 01:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
The point of all of them is to live without suffering. Or maybe it's more accurate to say the point is whatever each individual seeks from practicing Buddhism.




Why get caught up in all the religious dogma when your goal is to end suffering. Check out Albert Ellis and Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. You can do this yourself and no robes and hair cut.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Buddha and the Eightfold Path [Re: Icelander]
    #8067767 - 02/25/08 09:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Why get caught up in all the religious dogma when your goal is to end suffering. Check out Albert Ellis and Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. You can do this yourself and no robes and hair cut.




I agree. A favorite of mine is Buddhism Without Beliefs by Stephen Batchelor. His claim is that Buddhism has mutated from a set of practical teachings (no more than another form of behavior therapy) to a dogmatic religion. He takes an agnostic stance on karma, rebirth and any other identifiable dogmas.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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