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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Fakies when picking Pan Cyans
    #8067553 - 02/25/08 03:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This question is for those of you with experience hunting Panaeolus Cyanescens/Tropicalis.

I keep running into fakes (rather presumed fakies) that keep fruiting next to my Pan Cyans in my usual "field of Dreams". There are two distinct species (wish I had a camera), and both look very similar to the blue meanies, with the notable exception that they do not bruise blue, but more of a greyish tone.

I kept one of the bigger fakies to see if maybe it will show some bluing by tomorrow, but that is doubtful, but what I'm wondering is if it may still have a small percentage of alkaloids since it does in fact leave a black spore print and looks very similar to the pan cyan's and grows adjacent to them.


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8067579 - 02/25/08 03:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So I guess my question is, does anyone know if this may be another, possibly active Pan species?


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8067584 - 02/25/08 04:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

lol your in the wrong forum go over to hunting here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/3

I think one of them is Panaeolus antillarum


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: implee]
    #8067585 - 02/25/08 04:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Also it is not active, plus tons of Pans and other mushroosm grow on poop :laugh:


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: implee]
    #8067586 - 02/25/08 04:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Heres some white ones ive found on cow poop, im not sure what they are exactly though i havent looked them up









This year im going to find real copes though :laugh:


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: implee]
    #8068115 - 02/25/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
lol your in the wrong forum go over to hunting here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/3

I think one of them is Panaeolus antillarum





Wow, didn't even know there was a hunting forum. Opps.

I just found out that one of the more distinct species I ran into were immature shaggy manes, supposedly good eating.


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans [Re: implee]
    #8068125 - 02/25/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
Heres some white ones ive found on cow poop, im not sure what they are exactly though i havent looked them up









This year im going to find real copes though :laugh:




That 4th picture from the top definitely looks like one of the fakes I see, except the ones I run into are about twice that size. The bruising is definitely that grey-ish tone though.

It's lame that they're inactive. During the day, I can easily avoid these fakers, but at night I usually end up with a bag more than a third filled up with fakes.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8068274 - 02/25/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Psychedelic Experience.

Reason:
wrong forum


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #8069020 - 02/25/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8069646 - 02/25/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolus_semiovatus_var._phalaenarum




Yep, that's them. Now my next question would be, how do I prevent them from proliferating after I've gone and stomped all over the pasteur. I know even coming near them is risking spreading the spores.

I've heard that if you rip the out of the mycelium that it damages the mycelial nervous system and could kill it, but that doesn't sound right to me since I've accidentally done this to Pan Cyan's and discovered a week later another full, and bigger flush from that same pie.

Anyone?


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8069665 - 02/25/08 06:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Your not going to get rid of them, they spread spores on their own. The spores will blow from all over sorry


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: implee]
    #8069683 - 02/25/08 07:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
Your not going to get rid of them, they spread spores on their own. The spores will blow from all over sorry




I realize this, I guess what I am asking is how to best minimize the spread. After thinking about it, I may have answered my own question which would be to simply leave them be and not handle or disturb them in any way.

Right?


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8069707 - 02/25/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i guess so...

But with the same logic you could take all your copes and cubes, spore print them on a T-Shirt then go hunting in that t-shirt... so you will be spreading tons more cope/cube spores and leaving the other ones alone.


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: implee]
    #8069731 - 02/25/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
i guess so...

But with the same logic you could take all your copes and cubes, spore print them on a T-Shirt then go hunting in that t-shirt... so you will be spreading tons more cope/cube spores and leaving the other ones alone.




Haha, sounds silly, but at least in theory, it's worth a shot. Ya never know.


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8069741 - 02/25/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What do you mean it sounds silly?!??!

If picking up inactive mushrooms will spread the spores sooo much that it will make them grow all around your field, then why wouldnt printing all your mushrooms on your shirt to spread htem around the field not do the same thing but more efficiently?


You could also go around with pan cyan liquid cultures spraying all the patties... Then let the mycelium fight it out


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: implee]
    #8070305 - 02/25/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You could also spore print all the good mushrooms and then before you go out wash the prints into water and put it into a spray bottle and mist all the fresh pies with it.

But a better way would be to start from mycelium rather than spore - Take a good producing patty, grind it up into medium to small chunks, and mix that into fresh pies.


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8071465 - 02/26/08 06:24 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
You could also spore print all the good mushrooms and then before you go out wash the prints into water and put it into a spray bottle and mist all the fresh pies with it.

But a better way would be to start from mycelium rather than spore - Take a good producing patty, grind it up into medium to small chunks, and mix that into fresh pies.




I've always been told that if you make spore prints from wild mushrooms as is, they are inherently contaminated and won't do much. I'm sure there is a way to do it, but I'm no expert mycologist so I haven't the foggiest.

Also, where I go hunting, I go under the guise of a fisherman, and sometimes I even do a bit of fishing, but a spray bottle would look suspicious. Over here law enforcement seems to practice selective enforcement though, since they have much more important things to deal with so I may give it a shot.


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8071756 - 02/26/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

>I've always been told that if you make spore prints from wild mushrooms as is, they are inherently contaminated and won't do much. I'm sure there is a way to do it, but I'm no expert mycologist so I haven't the foggiest.

That refers to indoor cultivation from sporeprint.  The wild cubes/copes you pick have a natural built up defense system against other fungus/bacteria from the same region.  Thus, printing cubes and either wearing the spores, or spraying the spores is a good way of selecting where spores go.  Think about it, spores released from wild mushrooms have an eqaual chance of getting contminated as spores spread from prints off those mushrooms!  The only difference is, with print spreading, you are directing the spores toward desirable habitat.:smile2:

But, the colonized poop spreading method is even better, because the mycelium is already there, eliminating the spore germination step.:mushroom2:


--------------------


Edited by landsnorkler (02/26/08 09:35 AM)


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8073683 - 02/26/08 05:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

landsnorkler said:
>I've always been told that if you make spore prints from wild mushrooms as is, they are inherently contaminated and won't do much. I'm sure there is a way to do it, but I'm no expert mycologist so I haven't the foggiest.

That refers to indoor cultivation from sporeprint.  The wild cubes/copes you pick have a natural built up defense system against other fungus/bacteria from the same region.  Thus, printing cubes and either wearing the spores, or spraying the spores is a good way of selecting where spores go.  Think about it, spores released from wild mushrooms have an eqaual chance of getting contminated as spores spread from prints off those mushrooms!  The only difference is, with print spreading, you are directing the spores toward desirable habitat.:smile2:

But, the colonized poop spreading method is even better, because the mycelium is already there, eliminating the spore germination step.:mushroom2:




I'll be pleased to report that I have had my first flush of my outdoor grow today! And that's with using a very rudimentary set-up with just varying sizes and layers of colonized dung and hay! I have about 7 very adolescent Pan Cyan's already beginning to show some bluing! Go me.


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InvisibleSLASHpro
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: implee]
    #8073710 - 02/26/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

implee said:
i guess so...

But with the same logic you could take all your copes and cubes, spore print them on a T-Shirt then go hunting in that t-shirt... so you will be spreading tons more cope/cube spores and leaving the other ones alone.




i'd wear that shirt.  sounds like a new fashion! :thumbup:


--------------------
"All that you touch, see, taste, feel, love, hate, distrust, save, give, deal, buy, beg, borrow, or steal,
all you create, destroy, do, say, all that you eat, and everyone you meet,
all that you slight, and everyone you fight, all that is now, all that is gone, all that's to come,
and everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moooooooooooooon!"
- Roger Waters :darkside:


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Offlinetech nine
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: SLASHpro]
    #8089432 - 03/01/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)



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Offlineunretarded
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8089611 - 03/01/08 12:20 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I was wondering what would be the best use of time ,if one was to act as a Johhny Apple seed and spread the fungus,I have already been moving blewits to under trees that do not have them,in the form of the whole mushroom,I have been covering them over under the trees ,with the natural litter that is already there.
I have only found them under certain trees ,soo I just put them under the same kind of tree in other unproducing locations.
Soo if I was to dig down around a blewit find ,then transfer that to a new location ,it would be better than just using the whole mushroom ?,I just do not want to hurt the existing locations.......


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: unretarded]
    #8089873 - 03/01/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Pick older specimens that have had time to release their spores.  You can either remove the cap, and leave it sitting there, or bring it with you.  Blend up the whole mushrooms, or just the stem butts of mushrooms with water, and add to a spray canister, the kind you pump up, and spray with the hose thing.  Spray the habitats you found and picked them in, along with other similar habitats.  This inoculates the area with liquid culture.  It's good shit.:smile2:


--------------------


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OfflineSeraph in Blue
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8090161 - 03/01/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

landsnorkler said:
Pick older specimens that have had time to release their spores.  You can either remove the cap, and leave it sitting there, or bring it with you.  Blend up the whole mushrooms, or just the stem butts of mushrooms with water, and add to a spray canister, the kind you pump up, and spray with the hose thing.  Spray the habitats you found and picked them in, along with other similar habitats.  This inoculates the area with liquid culture.  It's good shit.:smile2:




I used the stem butts in water method and have been spraying my outdoor grow op.

I'm starting to get pins on the second flush. This makes me a very happy camper.


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Offlineunretarded
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8090193 - 03/01/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I will put them in the hudson sprayer :bottledup:
Thnx for the info.


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Seraph in Blue]
    #8090538 - 03/01/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seraph in Blue said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolus_semiovatus_var._phalaenarum




Yep, that's them. Now my next question would be, how do I prevent them from proliferating after I've gone and stomped all over the pasteur. I know even coming near them is risking spreading the spores.

I've heard that if you rip the out of the mycelium that it damages the mycelial nervous system and could kill it, but that doesn't sound right to me since I've accidentally done this to Pan Cyan's and discovered a week later another full, and bigger flush from that same pie.

Anyone?




well i can help out here , first off many of you hunting in pastures have to understand the cycle a cow pie or any other shit have , usually many mushrooms acts as indicator ,is not good to get rid of any mushrooms simply because a cow pie in a ecosystem that all mushrooms help each other in a way and so the first being actinomicetes, or some mold act as coprinus and other Sp can , exist, then como the panaeolus species the big antillarun and semiovatus, then a few day and week later come the other panaeolus , so when you see lot of this white ones is indicating the cycle is beginning usually a hole cycle of a cow pie can last a Mont or 2 month depend on weather and animals and other things, but i see many people have trouble just because theydont understand the cycle , so what this field is telling you is in a week more if condition are Right there will be pan cyan or copes , to be right conditions they need water high humidity and some how warn temperature, that why if is a bit cold you will likely find cubensis , mycelium of copes can grow as fast as 2 weeks and cubensis can take a month , when you recognize the cycle in your area that are affected by rain and temperature , it will be more easy , always check the pastures in regular basic and you will see what I'm toking about , the same in the woods some mushrooms appear fits and help other that come next , isn't nature beautiful when we Start to get a glimpse of it .
in cold weathe pie can last more and some micelium can dry out but are not dead a good soaking will bring then to life , that why you found cubensis so fast sometimes , cubensis can tolerate more cold and less water that copes, you will notice that , in my area paneolus cyanences was almost dificult to find now you can find it every where , we use ants as spore dispersal they will do you job more efficiently and you will have a big poblation of duty workers , if you have ants in you pastures put the mushrooms you desire to spread in front of the ant holes in all the ant nest you find , this tecnique is amazing or if you have not bring paneolus cyanences from place to place and leave then in the field you prefere and cover with grass so they dont dry as fast or do spray bottles , as other said,

all my best vibrations


--------------------

cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: cactu]
    #8090700 - 03/01/08 05:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

My own theories

Spraying a field is a, complete waste of time, though I have never tried
it before. The pastures are already just a perfectly chaotic mess of
spores all over the place. The grass is the key choice for these dung
loving spores. Spraying a spore solution on a fresh cow patty probably
would not do all too much. Because the typical way it happens in nature
is the spores are already on the blades of grass, and a cow or horse
comes along and craps a warm substate onto the grass encasing the
spores underneath in a ideal enviroment for the spores to mate.

The cool part hunting shrooms in a pasture compared to cultivating
them, is that a person can find a whole lot more shrooms right away
before a cultivator even observes a little splotch of mycelium.

Then as cactu mentioned, the decaying manure goes through cycles,
and other dung loving species mycelia compete with each other. It
sounds like cactu has seen it on a more competetive scale then what I
have observed in Florida. In Florida it seems that one species will
dominate throughout most of the cycle and maybe one out of every
hundred producing patties will sometimes have a second dung loving
species growing from it at the same time.

Transplanting is OK to do I suppose, I do not really consider it as
damage to the future production of the field. But those patties that are
already producing in the wild will indeed produce more shrooms then if a
person brings them home introducing them in to a different enviroment.
Also I have clearly observed that if say you brought home a bag of cow
patties that were currently putting out good flushes of P. cubensis, on
the next flush at home you will see a noticeable amount of non-active
competitors also fruiting. When if the patties were just left in the field
then the Cubes would continue to dominate the war for more nutrients
in the patty to continue fruiting.

If you find a good sized chunk of manure with plenty of Cubes on it
which has a good deal of rhizomorphic mycelium permeating it bring that
thing home if you are interesting in cultivating Cubes the real way.
Crush it up into small chunks and mix it in a 1 to 4 ratio with "Organic
Composted Cow Manure" directly out of the bag. Place that mixture in
cow patty shaped form outside during the rainy shroom season,
underneath the bushes or in tall grass. After a few flushes, use those
pattys to create more new pattys mixed with more Organic Composted
Cow Manure in a 1 to 4 ratio. Place them in tall grass or underneath
bushes. You can mist them with a hose if it looks dry, but they seem to
produce better if they are neglected.


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OfflineSFbuster
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Re: Fakies when picking Pan Cyans (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #23603801 - 09/02/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Reviving an old thread but this us exactly what I was going to test next...I hope it is a successful venture


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