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navyseals101
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Registered: 09/16/04
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Birdseed preperation q
#8061018 - 02/23/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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According to the fool proof birdseed method, they're is no presoaking of wbs.
I'm wondering if this is a good tek because I've heard that the "endospores" need to be germinated.
Is this the case?
-------------------- "Ten thousand flowers in spring the moon in autumn, a cool breeze in summer, snow in winter. If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things, this is the best season of your life." -wumen
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061029 - 02/23/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you are simmering the wbs then you dont need to worry about soaking it. if you arent, then a 24-36 hour soak will be sufficient.
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navyseals101
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??? The foolproof birdseed tek doesnt call for any simmering/soaking.
Will that work?
-------------------- "Ten thousand flowers in spring the moon in autumn, a cool breeze in summer, snow in winter. If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things, this is the best season of your life." -wumen
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061091 - 02/23/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
navyseals101 said: According to the fool proof birdseed method, they're is no presoaking of wbs.
I'm wondering if this is a good tek because I've heard that the "endospores" need to be germinated.
Is this the case?
Yes this is the case. Do not skip the soaking process. Soaking serves two purposes. 1) Germination of bacterial endospores. 2) Adding moisture to the seeds. Simmering adds moisture to the bird seed but does nothing about the endospores. (Remember, endospores are not affected by high heat). You can soak and simmer if you'd like, (that is what I do), but don't just simmer.
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AMU Q&A thread.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061093 - 02/23/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Im not familiar with "foolproof bird seed tek" maybe you could link me. But in my opinion wbs should always be prepped by simmering or soaking. I dont see how else you could ensure that a) the wbs holds its optimal moisture content and b) that the endospores are hatched.
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navyseals101
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http://www.shroomery.org/9031/Fool-Proof-Birdseed-Method
this whole endospore thing is pissing me off. I'm not even sure if its a real concern. Not that i've done research on endospores, but I've found contrary evidence supporting this..
-------------------- "Ten thousand flowers in spring the moon in autumn, a cool breeze in summer, snow in winter. If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things, this is the best season of your life." -wumen
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061184 - 02/23/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
navyseals101 said: http://www.shroomery.org/9031/Fool-Proof-Birdseed-Method
this whole endospore thing is pissing me off. I'm not even sure if its a real concern. Not that i've done research on endospores, but I've found contrary evidence supporting this.. [/quote
Do as you please, I gave you my opinion from my experience with wbs. Im sure if there is a shroomery tek that says it isnt required, then it isnt required.
I always soak my wbs, it allows the wbs to fill its water capacity.
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navyseals101
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according to the fool proof birdseed tek, a couple of "washes" is all thats necessary. I wonder what would happen if you forgot to do the washes?
-------------------- "Ten thousand flowers in spring the moon in autumn, a cool breeze in summer, snow in winter. If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things, this is the best season of your life." -wumen
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061617 - 02/23/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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A couple of washes is "A given". Follow the following tek and you should be alright.http://www.shroomery.org/9030/Docs-Wild-Bird-Seed-Tek
If all this endospore business is pissing you off, and you don't want to take the time to follow a tried and true tek, then maybe grain is not for you! WBS is not Rocket Science. There are some simple key elements for success. It's up to you! Better yet, do whatever you want to do and post your "new found success or failure". Then YOU can tell us what works and what doesn't work.
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AMU Q&A thread.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: navyseals101]
#8061709 - 02/23/08 05:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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No need to soak.
Just simmer your grains to capacity...
Rinse...
Drip the wbs dry...
Pack your jars...
Add the lids...
Let the simmered, hydrated grains sit in the jar for 12-24 hours... if anything can still grow inside the grains after the simmer, it'll do so during this time.
Then PC the fuck out of 'em for 90 minutes at 15 psi.
The soak is not needed.
And if you have good bird seed... you may not need to wait 12-24 hours before you pc either... depends on the batch though... some batches of wbs just contam more than others... especially w/o the 12-24 hour wait. Better safe than sorry... still, there's no need to soak.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Rose]
#8061781 - 02/23/08 06:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think you missed the point, the OP doesnt believe there is a need to simmer or soak.
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Rose
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And I think you missed mine.
If you don't care about endospores, you can do what the OP suggests (but once you have enough contams, you may start to care about endospores).
It really depends on the quality of the batch of wbs you are currently using. Even if you use the same brand of wbs, the quality may vary from batch to batch.
If you DO care about endospores, you STILL don't need to soak. Just simmer and let the jars sit for a day before you PC.
A soak AND a simmer IS redundant... weather you care about endospores or not.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (02/23/08 06:29 PM)
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Rose]
#8061894 - 02/23/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Rose]
#8061930 - 02/23/08 06:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think its more a matter of personal perference. I dont like simmering because I use about 2-3 lbs. of substrate, its much easier to empty it into a tub and soak it. And it does the job all the same. At least in my eyes. But I agree, one or the other needs to be done.
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Rose
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If a soak only serves to hydrate grains... as agar suggests in your link, then a simmer does the SAME thing... only faster. MUCH faster. And if you know what you are doing, your success rate will be the same.
There is a higher risk of over saturating your grains with water when you simmer... but you get the hang of it. And once you do it works fine.
Same with just putting seed and water in a jar and PCing it for 90 minutes at 15 psi.
If you know what you're doing, it works most of the time.
Now RR would be against it, because it is not FOOLPROOF... but I'd guess the OP would have a 95% success ratio just by adding water to jars and PCing the wbs w/o a soak. If that is worth it to him, I see no problem with it. 
I've known several people to do wbs that way... I've even tried it... but they usually loose 1 in 20 jars (and that COULD be due to endospores in the wbs). Not a bad success rate, if you ask me... and it uses WAY fewer dishes.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Rose]
#8062060 - 02/23/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I hate simmering WBS Especially because every time I end up with soggy mushy grains.
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Rose
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Hahahahaha n00b. 
Nah, really grains are a pain in the ass (Who hasn't over-hydrated grain... or overfilled a jar... etc).
No single tek is perfect for everybody. But if you understand the PURPOSE of each step, you will know which steps you can skip... depending on your situation.
If your gf doesn't want you spilling grains all over her kitchen... you may have to just put some dry grain and some water in a jar and pc it. It isn't optimal, but it does work. And depending on your particular situation, it may be the best tek for you.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Rose]
#8062503 - 02/23/08 10:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: If your gf doesn't want you spilling grains all over her kitchen... you may have to just put some dry grain and some water in a jar and pc it. It isn't optimal, but it does work. And depending on your particular situation, it may be the best tek for you.
If my girlfriend said she doesn't want me spilling grains on the table I'd tell her to fuck off and throw my wet grains at her. Fuck that I pay the bills she cleans the house. And after words SUPRISE SEX AND
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Cheesekiller
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Last batch for me I just soaked for about 36 hrs. no simmer, and they took off pretty quick 7 days. Time before that I soaked and simmered, took about only 5 days for full colonization. I think the simmer helped saturate, so in the future I will follow agars tek with the soak and simmer.
After a few times you will find what works best for you.
-CK
-------------------- Bulk grower with "some" success. Cloning Machine Nice Lids A few pics of my DT setup
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: Birdseed preperation q [Re: Cheesekiller]
#8062615 - 02/23/08 10:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just dry them with a towel. As long as there fully hydrated and no moisture dripping off the actual grains...there fine.
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