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OfflineKold
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Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
fourth try, nothing yet
    #8059889 - 02/23/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I've searched high and low on this site and of course there's going to be shitloads of opinions on everything. However, this is my fourth time trying the PF Tek and I have yet to succeed.

I humbly ask for any opinions and suggestions given my current situation:

9 250mL mason jars with BRF/Verm mix

These will be PC'd along with the syringe at 10psi (my PC only goes up to 10psi) for about 2 hours.I let these cool for another 3 hours or so inside the PC.

They will be inoculated in a sterile (lysol/water mist/alcohol) glove box. I will not be re-flaming the needle as it will add contamination if i have to swap the needle out for every jar.

Now here's where I believe I have my problems. I have experimented with several kinds of incubation chambers and am not sure which is the best.
I have at my disposal for heating:
- a lizard terrarium heater
- a water heater that cannot be fully submersed (top part must be above water

So far the best results have been from the lizard heater on the bottom with the jars raised about an inch off the bottom. However, these jars were all contaminated by the end of the colonization.

My first attempt at the PF Tek, I used the water heater but since it couldn't be submersed, the grow area was extremely humid and it seemed to slow the colonization time. Furthermore, those cakes fruited very few shrooms.

So what I'm most concerned about now is the proper way to incubate these guys. I could keep them in the glove box which is sterile but has no moving air, or I could create a new incubation chamber but I really am strapped for cash. A third option would be to put them in a new container with the lizard heater but again, no moving air.

I just really want it to work this time, any suggestions?


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Offlineello619
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Registered: 01/29/08 Happy 16th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 60
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Kold]
    #8059982 - 02/23/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I would let the jars cool overnight


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Kold]
    #8059986 - 02/23/08 11:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>They will be inoculated in a sterile (lysol/water mist/alcohol) glove box. I will not be re-flaming the needle as it will add contamination if i have to swap the needle out for every jar.

There's no need to swab it again after re flaming it. Remember alcohol is a sanitizer! Not A Sterilizer! Flame the needle until it turns glowing red an wait until its cooled down enough so it won't melt or cause smoke to anything when touched. Squirting the solution out of the syringe may kill a few spores but this is only .001 seconds that this will happen. It will quickly cool down and then you won't have a problem.



>Now here's where I believe I have my problems. I have experimented with several kinds of incubation chambers and am not sure which is the best.
I have at my disposal for heating:
- a lizard terrarium heater
- a water heater that cannot be fully submersed (top part must be above water


There's no need to incubate jars at all. They will colonize faster at 80F That's a known fact BUT there are more problems with this as every week I see a noob coming in and saying there jars have contaminated because of incubators. If you can wear a t-shit in your home and feel comfortable your jars are fine at room temperature. Don't use reptile heating pads and if you do Don't put them on the bottom of the jars. This will DOUBLE your chances of either so I myself wouldn't recommend it.
1. Causing A Fire.
2. Contaminating your cakes.
3. Frying your jars because the heat went over 100*F.

They'll colonize only a few days later at room temperature between 75-78F. They build heat on their own as the mycelium colonizes.

How was your Gas Exchange when incubating the jars also?


Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/23/08 12:01 PM)


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OfflineHeadFood
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 390
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8060037 - 02/23/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dumbfounded1600 said:
They will colonize faster at 86F That's a known fact




Actually the known FACT is that anything over 77F does nothing to help with the colonization time


--------------------
Phi Alpha


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: HeadFood]
    #8060085 - 02/23/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They'll colonize fastest at 80F...But is it worth condensation drops in your jars and fucking up there water content. Also a huge chance of contamination and thermophilic bacteria/contamination anything above 78F with grains. As contamination/bacteria thrive in these temps.

The 86F in the mushroom cultivator incubation myth was for petri dishes where heat wasn't generated. They do best at 80


Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/23/08 12:02 PM)


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OfflineFrost000
Badfish

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8060135 - 02/23/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What do you mean you pressure cook your syringe? I hope you mean before you hydrate a spore print.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Frost000]
    #8060144 - 02/23/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

HAHAH....I think he pressure cooked the spore with the syringe


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OfflineFrost000
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Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8060154 - 02/23/08 12:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Heh. Let's hope not.


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OfflineKold
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Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Frost000]
    #8060229 - 02/23/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, i'm not quite that dumb. I PC the syringes before any spores are inside them, not to worry.

I live in a basement in Canada and it's about -10C outside so heating is probably a little bit necessary. I may just cover the glove box with a towel to keep it insulated.

I noticed with the one time I used the lizard pad heater, the jars tended to develop contams on the end closest to the heater so I can see why you're saying that.

My main concern then would be gas exchange. In the past, I've kept aluminum on top the entire time, but it sounds like this is unnecessary and actually hinders growth so I'm going to take it off before inoculating. But as far as the incubator is concerned, there is no gas exchange other than when I lift off the lid.


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OfflineFrost000
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Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Kold]
    #8060246 - 02/23/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It is indeed the cold season. I use a tupperware 50 gallon container to house my projects with a space heater running indirectly in the same room. Stays around 70 degrees. Also I would recommend looking into tyvek as a barrier for your jars. It provides excellent gas exchange while keeping out contaminants. A lot of the veterans, RogerRabbit specifically highly recommends that you do not incubate. i.e. heating pad, TiT, etc. He suggests room temperature. However in the winter, room temperature in most of my house is around 55-60 degrees(no central heating unit). The space heater does the trick though. Good luck.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Kold]
    #8060248 - 02/23/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you have a space heater present. Warm the jars with it.


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OfflineKold
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Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #8060333 - 02/23/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I borrowed a thermometer from a housemate and it's giving me an ambient room temp of 67 F. I can only assume that's a bit low for growing in room temperature.

I could purchase a space heater, but again, low funds if there's an alternative.


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OfflineFrost000
Badfish

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Kold]
    #8060350 - 02/23/08 01:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

67 is fine. Might take a few extra days but all in all it will work out good.


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OfflineKold
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Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Frost000]
    #8060449 - 02/23/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Frost000 said:
67 is fine. Might take a few extra days but all in all it will work out good.




good to know.

what about air exchange? should i expose the jars to air or keep them contained? it seems like there are two different camps on this issue.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: fourth try, nothing yet [Re: Frost000]
    #8060456 - 02/23/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

67F will produce SLOW COLONIZING JARS...VERY SLOW. I guess use your reptile heating pad but put it on top of the jars. Not on the bottom. The area where the jars are on the heating pad will cause ambient heat which will raise Temps Greatly.


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