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Anonymous

When could you morally justify taking a life?
    #805736 - 08/08/02 08:04 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Under what circumstance(s) would you feel morally justified in taking a human life?


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #805743 - 08/08/02 08:05 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Honestly, if only in self defense.

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #805750 - 08/08/02 08:07 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

How about defending a family member? How about defending an innocent stranger?

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OfflineLeya
Mischief Maker

Registered: 06/12/02
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #805782 - 08/08/02 08:28 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

what morally justifies us to take the life of any living creature?

im still trying to figure out what makes the human race so superior that many of believe it is right to take the life of animals (eg. for food) but when someone takes the life of another human being, that this is morally unacceptable.

how do we draw the line between what is right and what is wrong in this situation? who are we to determine whether something is morally justifiable anyway??


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Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #805783 - 08/08/02 08:28 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I could only take a life if someone asked me too many hypothetical questions.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #806035 - 08/09/02 12:31 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

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Offlinerosewoodpete
a grain of sandamongst thedunes

Registered: 05/11/02
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Draig]
    #806143 - 08/09/02 03:06 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

well honestly i don't have much of a moral concious. I feel worse about cruelty to animals than cruelty to humans. Pretty much anything that threatened mine or the livelihoods of those around me or our safety would justify slaughter.

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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Leya]
    #806147 - 08/09/02 03:12 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

As for the original question....that is very hard to answer. If you take a human life you will have to struggle with that yourself to either justify it or look for forgiveness.

As to the question about why do humans think they can justify taking the life of any living creature...I have answers for both the religious and non-religious.

Religious: God put us here to have dominion over all living creatures and the earth. We are his children. That doesn't mean we can have blatant disrespect for animals and plants. I think hunting for game is wrong but if hunting for food then that is ok. I feel there is no question which life force is more valuable between man and beast...................without a doubt.....man.

Nonreligious: If you believe that we weren't created by God but were evolved like all living things then that is even more reason to think it is ok.....simply stated....we are the top of the food chain. No one crys for the gazelle when the lion kills it for food. Why are we held so much more accountable for killing our lunch? It's the way of the world.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: chemkid]
    #806243 - 08/09/02 04:26 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Why are we held so much more accountable for killing our lunch? It's the way of the world.

You're straying... last time I checked, the intention behind most murders isn't a meal. I'd have to say that I'd be more inclined to kill someone that posed an immediate mortal threat to myself or someone I know. I did use the word 'inclined' though... I've never fulfilled this inclination; every situation in which I might be so inclined to kill someone, the situation has either been diffused OR I have been (in one way or another).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Leya]
    #806362 - 08/09/02 05:32 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

im still trying to figure out what makes the human race so superior that many of believe it is right to take the life of animals (eg. for food) but when someone takes the life of another human being, that this is morally unacceptable.

I believe it's ok to take the life of an animal for food because I am an animal too. Animals eat animals, like it or not. How come my cat can kill baby birds and not feel bad? Is it killing? Yes. Is it murder? Yes. Is it nature? Yes. Justifiable homicide if there ever was such a thing.

THIS IS NECESSARY
LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

Edited by CyberChump (08/09/02 05:34 AM)

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InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #806476 - 08/09/02 06:34 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Draig]
    #806540 - 08/09/02 07:13 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

You caught an intruder trying to rape your wife. You sneak up behind the bastard and crack him a good one in the head with a baseball bat. He is alive, but out of commission and bleeding badly with a fractured skull. You recognize him as you wife's psychotic ex-boyfriend. You contemplate all sorts of possible legal and medical issues, but more importantly, you know he might come back after your family after he recovers.

Do you finish him off (active killling) or just let him bleed out (passive killing) before calling 911, or do you call 911 immediately to try to save him?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Swami]
    #806571 - 08/09/02 07:22 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

In your example I would kill him immediately and without hesitation.

However, I do not keep a baseball bat. I keep a gun. If you enter my house without my permission you will die.

Cheers,

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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Swami]
    #806863 - 08/09/02 09:37 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

In your description, I will probably kill him, just because I feel he will come back again.
In my case I don't have a baseball bat or a gun, but I do have a sword, things could get very messy.
I pray I will have to never be in that circumstance.
What would you do?


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OfflineEvilGir
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Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: LOBO]
    #806913 - 08/09/02 10:01 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:


I believe it's ok to take the life of an animal for food because I am an animal too. Animals eat animals, like it or not. How come my cat can kill baby birds and not feel bad? Is it killing? Yes. Is it murder? Yes. Is it nature? Yes. Justifiable homicide if there ever was such a thing.






Although we are animals we posess something that animals dont. Sefl Awarness and higher inteligence. This means we dont need to kill for food. We have a mind that can be used to find a healthly alternative to meat. We do not need to kill except in self defense. But what if someone is seriously ill and in pain ?


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Swami]
    #806916 - 08/09/02 10:02 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

To answer the original question at hand:
I'd say I would always try every single other possibility I could before taking another human beings life (e.g. paralyse them, render them unconcious, restrain them, etc) So for me, murder would be an absolute last resort...and only in cases where I felt it was completely necessary and there literally was no other choice.

But when it comes to Swami's scenario:
I'd say let the fucker die. Cause in my mind allowing him to live (with the assumption that he'd return for vengance) wouldn't be taking care of the problem, but rather delaying the inevitable. I wouldn't go all out and beat the living daylights out of him, but I certainly wouldn't do anything to ensure his survival either. I'd just make things like calming down my wife more important then calling 911...and if I didn't get around to making the call untill an hour or so later, so be it.

But I too have a sword, so I seriously doubt I'd have to stall too long.


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #807021 - 08/09/02 10:44 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I can't imagine killing another human being.

If you're asking whether or not morals exist...I don't know. Right now if you kill someone and get caught you will go to prison. However, if you were called up to fight in a war, and you say no, you will go to prison..for NOT wanting to kill people. It saddens me that people are so easily manipulated into justifying the most awful of things.


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OfflineCalvin13
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Registered: 07/05/02
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Revelation]
    #807062 - 08/09/02 11:04 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

morality is just a herd instinct programed into humans to hold society together. people take human lives more seriously than animal lives just because our species does better when we humans look out for each other. but when you look beyond that killing a human shouldnt be more immoral than killing a spider, because the spider wants to live just as much as any human does, all life wants to live as much as we do even bacteria we are not special just because we are more self conscious, we are just more aware we want to live.

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Offlinemirrorsaw
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Registered: 08/03/02
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Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #807063 - 08/09/02 11:05 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

There is no reasoned proof that there even is such a thing as morality, so I don't know why people concern themselves with it. The only question can be:- what benefits me? or for law makers:- what benefits society?

You of course still have the problem of what benefit you are looking for. For those in power it seems to be to maximize gross domestic product. This is the only proven real morality that exists.

Anything else is pure speculation and hardly sufficient for you to base your actions on.

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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #807236 - 08/09/02 12:27 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

At any time someone initiates violence towards me, a loved one or just someone I happen to be in close physical proximity to.

Now the other things. I am not a vegetarian, I am an omnivore and eating meat is necessary to a healthy body. Yes, I could get all I need from non-meat sources, it would entail a much greater amount of food than from meat. I do kill and butcher my own meat. I also hunt, both fowl and mammals, I also fish. I respect that I am a killer and that I kill to obtain meat; that a life, or several are lost just so I may live.

Someone smarter than me said this: I own a gun. If someone comes into my home without permission I will kill them.

Myself, if forced to use a baseball bat, I would strike as many blows as necessary to ensure my and my wifes survival.

"There is no such thing as FAIR, in a fight involving death"

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OfflineMANNALORD
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: mr freedom]
    #807902 - 08/09/02 07:18 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

This is a very wide topic, what i mean by this is, what is "morally" correct is different to many people, everyone has there own morals. A poor bum on the street follows an old lady home, then follows her into her home, kills her and takes anything she has of value, to this person the act may be morally justifiable to the bum. But to me, what is morally justifiable to take a life, i would say, if anybody or anything is threatening or making the life miserable of me or any of my close friends/family then I will put a stop to it, because I am an emotional being i believe that taking action is the only way to solve certain problems. If my wifes X came into my home and tryed to rape her i wouldnt knock him out then contemplate killing him, I would kill him. The simple fact is I would use extreme force against anyone in my home without permission like someone else said, but someone in my home trying to rape my wife? i will shit on his grave and kill his offspring so his seed will no longer stain the earth


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Live and Die in FALL RIVER

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: MANNALORD]
    #808346 - 08/10/02 05:21 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Well said.

The baseline of this thread is whether or not morality can be defined in such a way that it is true for everyone. I think it can.

Cheers,

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #808430 - 08/10/02 06:13 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

The baseline of this thread is whether or not morality can be defined in such a way that it is true for everyone. I think it can.

So, I guess this means that you're not a fan of my 'Heteroabsolutism'?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Sclorch]
    #808506 - 08/10/02 07:21 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Heteroabsolutism?

Sounds like gay bashing.

What is it and can be be scientifically proven?

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #808540 - 08/10/02 07:52 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

It depends on what you mean by scientifically.

Absolutism when it wor... hey, I have an idea. Look here.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: Sclorch]
    #808553 - 08/10/02 08:01 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I see your idea got a lot of play. Too bad I wasn't a member way back then. I could have saved you from the crooked, torturous path you've travelled.

I'll post something over there to revive what should have been an excellent dialectic.

Thanks for sharing, gay basher.

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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #808608 - 08/10/02 08:43 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

However, I do not keep a baseball bat. I keep a gun. If you enter my house without my permission you will die.

Cheers,

Plato

This is about the greatest thing I have ever read. You will die, immediately followed by Cheers HEHEHEHEH

He would be just so fucking happy to kill you, he would have a drink in your honor.


To seriously answer the question. I'm with rosewoodpete on this one. Fuck with me or my family and they cart you away on a gurney in a bag. Simple as that.

Also anyone who voted for W. Bush. they deserve a painful, bloody, violent death. and the amish. yes... the amish


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: postalboy]
    #808624 - 08/10/02 08:49 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Just because I have to kill someone is no reason to be rude. I figure toasting them after roasting them would be the least I could do. I do have manners.

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OfflineArmouredSaint
Legacy ofBrutality
Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 10
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: MANNALORD]
    #810136 - 08/11/02 04:17 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

You guys joke around about killing someone, i used to do the same...untill about 4wks ago when i was in a drug deal gone wrong and saw my friend get shot 3times in the chest. Talking about killing and actually going through with it is very very diffrent....oh if some guy was pissing me off i'd end his life in a instant...who are you joking?

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Anonymous

Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ArmouredSaint]
    #810290 - 08/11/02 06:19 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

1. I'm terribly sorry to hear about your friend.

2. Maybe we use humor the wrong way.

3. If I had to kill, I would. Not with glee, not without being upset, but with all the nerve I have. And I'm not kidding about it.

I have been in life threatening situations many times. They are never fun and I avoid getting into them as much as possible. I have been shot at, had a gun pointed at me at point blank range, and had a knife stuck in my back. Most of those experiences were from being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I haven't had any incidents in over 10 years. Why? I am very careful where I go and who I hang out with.

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Offlineuno
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Registered: 04/06/02
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Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: ]
    #824708 - 08/17/02 10:03 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

A loud sound when they chew? Perhaps if they wouldn't make me a sandwhich.


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- uno

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OfflineAcursedRedDragon
Legacy ofBrutality
Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 719
Loc: Opium Den
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: When could you morally justify taking a life? [Re: uno]
    #923321 - 10/01/02 04:42 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I never think its right to kill especially after I saw this video: http://movies.ogrish.com/chechclear.asf
*Warning* Not for the faint of heart (I'm serious!)

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