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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8064209 - 02/24/08 11:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, that is certainly news to me.

I paid taxes every year that I was in school, and I was well over a full-time student. And working almost full time too.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8064215 - 02/24/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
No one has clarified how a $4000 tax credit is going to help your average high school or college student. Most of these people pay nowhere near $4000 a year in taxes.




Anyone?




full time students are exempt from taxes




They are?




Nope, they are not

Quote:

Every U.S. citizen or resident must file a U.S. income tax return if certain income levels are reached. There is no exemption from tax for full-time students. Factors that determine whether you have an income tax filing requirement include:




http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3449


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8064222 - 02/24/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was about to say, I'd be pretty irritated if I just found this out now.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Redstorm]
    #8064233 - 02/24/08 12:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Likewise.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8064408 - 02/24/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Here's what it says: (is there any way to cut and paste a fucking pdf? They suck cock)

Quote:

Recipients.... yada yada 100 hours of community service per year










yada yada?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8064446 - 02/24/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Go read it yourself if you want all the extraneous bullshit I didn't feel like typing.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8064455 - 02/24/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
full time students are exempt from taxes




They are?




Nope, they are not

Quote:

Every U.S. citizen or resident must file a U.S. income tax return if certain income levels are reached. There is no exemption from tax for full-time students. Factors that determine whether you have an income tax filing requirement include:




http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3449





seems there's lots of conflicting information, everyone
must file taxes unless they fall below a certain income
but as a student everything I had paid in was refunded,
the W-4 even had a tick box for student exemptions

http://www.wvu.edu/~finance/control/stg/stgsec7-0.html


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8064501 - 02/24/08 01:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

And how long ago were you a student? heh


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: adrug]
    #8064513 - 02/24/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

most recently about 10 years ago, damned greedy politicians
want every nickel, I've just been reading through the IRS
code and it appears that they've removed exemptions for
full time student

:crankey:


now I have to claim the cow I worked for as income... I can write off the depreciation though


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8064582 - 02/24/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I dont see how a full time student could make enough to even enter a tax bracket.  My wife and I are each full time students and, with our incomes combined, we dont come close to paying taxes.  :ohwell:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: DieCommie]
    #8064595 - 02/24/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

From the tax brackets I looked at before for my research you start paying pretty much right away. It isn't shit though. There are regulations regarding dependents as well. And, of course, FICA is unavoidable at any level.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Posts: 5,715
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: DieCommie]
    #8064644 - 02/24/08 01:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont see how a full time student could make enough to even enter a tax bracket.  My wife and I are each full time students and, with our incomes combined, we dont come close to paying taxes.  :ohwell:




I know a slavic brotha that works full time making around 40k a year and he goes to school full time. I think his major is engineering.

I am also going to be going to work full time next year and go to school full time.


--------------------



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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: downforpot]
    #8064662 - 02/24/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Good fucking luck. We're not likely to see you posting much.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8064749 - 02/24/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
From Obamas Plan for America

Quote:

Set goals for middle-school and high-school students to serve 50 hours a year of public service, and for college students to serve 100 hours a year





Public/ community service is something we sentence law breakers to do for punishment. How can our government force kids to do 50-100 hours of community service every year?

Isn't this against child labor laws? Even kids working sweat shops get paid something.

Last time I checked, madatory labor , without compensation, for the benefit of others, was called slavery.


WTF is it with Barrack and Hillary trying to turn the rest of us into their mini me's.

Egomania has no boundaries.





Here in Maryland we already have laws like this. When I was in high school, I was a part of the first class where we had to do community service to graduate. I think it's 70 hours per kid now, but luckily it was experimental during our first year so I managed to get away with a "project" that involved 6 hours of service and an essay about "what I learned"... total bullshit. But starting the next class they just set a number of hours and that was that.

Middle school and high school? meh.... I dont give a fuck.. they're under 18. When you're under 18 you have no rights.

Now college students.. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Once someone's an adult you can't make them do shit.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: BrAiN]
    #8064823 - 02/24/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Now college students.. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Once someone's an adult you can't make them do shit.




Whoa whoa whoa. You have to understand the actual plan, which is something some of the people here have no concept of, especially the ones that are posting tax brackets and bullshit like that. :lol:

This is a tax credit. It isn't a deduction. The plan is saying that, "if you make an agreement to do this amount of community service, then we will give you a $4000 tax credit". It is saying that this $4000 counts as taxes that you have paid with your taxable income.

Not only that, but it is refundable, which means that, if you don't owe more than $4000 in taxes, because you aren't generating that much of an income, then you get a refund check for the rest of the credit. Otherwise, it covers your taxes. It is a credit

So, essentially, Obama is saying that, if you are willing to participate in two hours of community service a week, they will give you $4000 to help with college. Not only that, but I believe that, if it is a family putting their child through college, they are the ones who receive the credit. Not only that, but I believe it read that it can be put on the prior's years taxes so that it pays off closer to when it is needed.

Now, whether or not the government should be giving people money for college is another story, but the implication that Obama is trying to make it seem like he's helping when he isn't giving anything with this plan is completely baseless. Personally, I'd rather see the government subsidize college than Pakistan. At least college will generally pay dividiends for our country as a whole whereas subsidizing Pakistan is like dumping our money in a hole in the sand. :lol:


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8064835 - 02/24/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Not only that, but it is refundable, which means that, if you don't owe more than $4000 in taxes, because you aren't generating that much of an income, then you get a refund check for the rest of the credit. Otherwise, it covers your taxes. It is a credit.




I don't believe it works that way with credits, does it? I was under the impression that credits only brought you down to zero and not below.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Redstorm]
    #8064984 - 02/24/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I read this title and thought to myself "Are you serious"

100 required community service hours in exchange for a $4000 tuition credit? OUTRAGE! Who does he think he is offering a pittance of 40/hr to work with those disgusting homeless people.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: xFrockx]
    #8064998 - 02/24/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
I read this title and thought to myself "Are you serious"

100 required community service hours in exchange for a $4000 tuition credit? OUTRAGE! Who does he think he is offering a pittance of 40/hr to work with those disgusting homeless people.




I don't believe anywhere in the thread does it say they receive tuition credit. They receive a worthless tax credit.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8065254 - 02/24/08 05:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
Now college students.. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Once someone's an adult you can't make them do shit.




Whoa whoa whoa. You have to understand the actual plan, which is something some of the people here have no concept of, especially the ones that are posting tax brackets and bullshit like that. :lol:

This is a tax credit. It isn't a deduction. The plan is saying that, "if you make an agreement to do this amount of community service, then we will give you a $4000 tax credit". It is saying that this $4000 counts as taxes that you have paid with your taxable income.

Not only that, but it is refundable, which means that, if you don't owe more than $4000 in taxes, because you aren't generating that much of an income, then you get a refund check for the rest of the credit. Otherwise, it covers your taxes. It is a credit

So, essentially, Obama is saying that, if you are willing to participate in two hours of community service a week, they will give you $4000 to help with college. Not only that, but I believe that, if it is a family putting their child through college, they are the ones who receive the credit. Not only that, but I believe it read that it can be put on the prior's years taxes so that it pays off closer to when it is needed.




I had glossed over the "refundable" part.  The notion that you get a $4,000 credit on your taxes, whether you owe that much tax or not, with a subsequent check given to you for that amount left over after you pay your taxes, makes this a whole different animal all together.  Now it becomes a fungible gift that you can use for anything at all.  I call it a gift because although it requires 100 hours of work there are very few college students who can come close to being that valuable ($40 per hour) on the marketplace and the jobs they will be required to perform will be held to the lowest common denominator.  You might as well call it a purple pony because it just as much that as a tax credit.  You just have to pay your taxes first.  Just like everybody else.

Since this is completely discretionary money it makes no difference whatsoever when you use it or who uses it.  This is even worse than I initially thought.  He estimates it will cost $3.5B per annum for all of his service initiatives, which is about right for 900,000 full time students taking advantage of this.  That probably understates the number by a factor of 10.  There will be over 10 million full time students and a boondoggle like this will be impossible to pass up.  What college student would turn down a $40 an hour job?  So his cost number is total bullshit just based on the college scam without once taking into account any of the other nonsense he has to pay for.  He will pay for this by raising taxes and with a troop withdrawal from Iraq.  Forget for a moment the horrifying notion that he has already begun spending the money that will be saved when the Iraq war winds down with socialist crap.  Maybe it should go towards the deficit instead of increased spending.
Quote:





Now, whether or not the government should be giving people money for college is another story, but the implication that Obama is trying to make it seem like he's helping when he isn't giving anything with this plan is completely baseless. Personally, I'd rather see the government subsidize college than Pakistan. At least college will generally pay dividiends for our country as a whole whereas subsidizing Pakistan is like dumping our money in a hole in the sand. :lol:




Blah blah blah Pakistan blah blah blah.  I do not intend to get into an isolationism argument, it is off topic.  What is on topic is the repercussions.  I see a few.

1.  College costs will be increased to absorb most of the purple pony anyway.  That's right, as soon as more money becomes available to pay for a service the price of that service will rise.  Every.  Fucking.  Time.  Bet on it.

2.  Some people will be displaced from their low paying jobs in favor of these college kids.  This will somewhat offset the costs while at the same time marginalizing even further the people who need these jobs.  Because they aren't likely to ever become engineers.  So a new class of unemployed will be created.  Let's be conservative and say only 5 million students do 100 hrs.  100 hrs' is 5% of a full year.  5% of 5 million is 250,000 replaced jobs.  Now I have no doubt that a lot of this work will be utter bullshit but certainly there will be quite a few people losing jobs.  If the work is at all meaningful there will be even more jobs lost.  Why pay someone to do work when you can get the gummint to supply some college schmuck to do it for nothing.

3.  People not going to college will scream bloody fucking murder.  They already resent pampered college kids.  Where's theirs?

4.  There will be no way to ever eliminate this hideous idea.  It will be with us forever.

In closing I will throw in my favorite quote whenever I see shit like this, especially in a campaign.  I undressed Kerry over this four years ago and Obama is definitely going to get his.

Quote:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."




The asshole seems to want to speed this up as much as possible.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: Redstorm]
    #8065273 - 02/24/08 05:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

xFrockx said:
I read this title and thought to myself "Are you serious"

100 required community service hours in exchange for a $4000 tuition credit? OUTRAGE! Who does he think he is offering a pittance of 40/hr to work with those disgusting homeless people.




I don't believe anywhere in the thread does it say they receive tuition credit. They receive a worthless tax credit.




I initially thought the same as you. Then I wikied "refundable tax credit". It isn't a tax credit at all. It's a gift.

Quote:

Refundable or non-wastable tax credits can reduce the tax owed below zero, and result in a net payment to the taxpayer beyond their own payments into the tax system,



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_credit

A far worse horror.


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