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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8058666 - 02/22/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I know Hillary is also a fan of slave labor and use to make arrangements when she was first lady of Arkansas to have prisoners released for the day just to do her mothers landscaping and yard work for free. I've posted about her Slave Master tendencies already though. 




Yes, Hillary Clinton's corruption is a testament agansit community service. :rolleyes:

Probably a good thing she isn't getting the nomination, and Obama is, right? :smile:

Community service through public schools isn't going to be working in a mansion. Anyways, even if Hillary was using her power to benefit from the criminal justice system, the prisoners were probably just happy to get out of the prison and get some fresh air. I bet it contributed health to their mental state of being. Fresh air is much better than four walls. Aha, the benefit of community service, life experience, even if it was misused by a crooked politician for personal benefit. :smirk:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8058689 - 02/22/08 10:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Why is it that Obama supporters here know so little about the candidate THEY support and ask me for links to learn more about him? :tongue:


Here-http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/NationalServicePlanFactSheet.pdf




Oh jiggy, you are so cute, Obama supporters here probably only ask you to provide links to the unsubstantiated garbage that you propose regarding Obama, mostly because it usually is completely baseless. Any actual information regarding Obama is already known by them.

I would hate to make you lose the identity you gain from being the savior for people who actually like Obama for what he stands for, and not just because, as you think, they've become delusional, but I was already well-aware of this.

What I'm not aware of, is any actual information regarding your assertion that Obama voted for a "NAFTA Superhighway". Searching vote records when you have next to no information on the actual bill (since it probably doesn't contain either the word NAFTA or the word Superhighway :lol:) is pretty difficult. :shrug:

I already demonstrated to you how your judgement of his vote on the Energy Policy Act of 2005 was blatantly inaccurate.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: crumblebum]
    #8058699 - 02/22/08 10:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

crumblebum said:
And most of us, having fucked off in a factory or fast food for a while, are better students with better grades and a better overall attitude towards education. I can guarentee you that any HS student who spends a few weeks with a leaf blower or a spatula will appreciate education more.




Real life experience. :thumbup: I think it is amusing how some would hysterically react to a better eduation for American children. :hehehe:

Quote:


To call this slave labor is like calling a night at the opera a concentration camp.




Exactly. It is pure emotionalism. I think it is out of fear, but its ignorant.

Quote:


Add to all that, I don't really like teenagers. Most of them are lazy, and stupid. Most of the stuff we need community service to fix is their fault. So go for it.




:rofl2:

:bongload:

:lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8058939 - 02/23/08 12:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Community service is horrible.

Those kids will be scarred for life!!!


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8058994 - 02/23/08 12:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:


Oh jiggy, you are so cute, Obama supporters here probably only ask you to provide links to the unsubstantiated garbage that you propose regarding Obama, mostly because it usually is completely baseless.




Slow down and breath. The unsubstantiated garbage I posted came from Obama's own Plan.  Did you read the link?

I agree, mandating 50 hours of community service for middle and high school students is garbage. You and crum bum act as if every student in the U.S. is a failing, unmotivated,  degenerate, juvenile delinquent, looser without caring parents from an inner city, who needs to do time serving others. My apologies to both of you for being able to relate your middle and HS years to being as such.

Quote:

I would hate to make you lose the identity you gain from being the savior for people who actually like Obama for what he stands for, and not just because, as you think, they've become delusional, but I was already well-aware of this.




What are you talking about? This is a Political forum. There is a Presidential race underway. Criticizing platforms is a part of Political debate. What the hell do you think the candidates do with each other on stage during a debate?

How many times do I have to type this? Please sticky this to your monitor. If you or anyone else here supports Obama, you do. That is not the issue with me. We all have our own personal favorites and right to choose for ourselves as it should be. My goal in such posts is informing voters/U.S. citizens, of things they may not be aware of about the candidates, what may be to come if they are elected and opening a venue for discussing them.

This identity you have of me as being some savior of people from voting for Obama, is your delusion. It's down to Hillary, Obama and McCain and I equally despise all 3 of them for the position. I have not a damned thing to gain anymore regarding this election.  I'll encourage everyone here to go vote for Obama and it won't make a difference in the outcome either.

Do you have anything to contribute about this plan of his or not?

If you think our public educational system is a place to be mandating community service for middle and high school kids then state why.

I think that is a personal values issue that belongs to families and churches to teach for the acts to have any real meaning.

U.S, students are falling far behind the academic achievements of other first world countries and Obama wants our kids to divert academic school time to manual labor servitude as a solution. :what: He wants to further contribute to the dumbing down of America in my eyes for proposing this!:thumbdown:

Raise your own kid to be an unpaid servant of the government if you want too.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8059007 - 02/23/08 01:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

Real life experience. :thumbup: I think it is amusing how some would hysterically react to a better eduation for American children. :hehehe:





If you yourself had one, you would realize that scrubbing graffitti off of walls and pushing seniors in wheel chairs for walks does nothing to help Americas school children to compete in math, science, business finance, marketing, trade, technology, critical thinking and creativeinnovation  in a global marketplace when they get out of school.

Mandated community service will better acedemic education in America how?

Quote:

Quote:


To call this slave labor is like calling a night at the opera a concentration camp.




Exactly. It is pure emotionalism. I think it is out of fear, but its ignorant.




Ignoring acedemia during school hours in favor of  picking up trash along the side of the road is a damn good way to stay ignorant and yes, I fear this plan will contribute to the ignorance of Americas public school population.

Quote:


crumblebum said;
Add to all that, I don't really like teenagers. Most of them are lazy, and stupid. Most of the stuff we need community service to fix is their fault. So go for it.

FG said;

:rofl2:

:bongload:

:lol:






I rest my case.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (02/23/08 01:59 AM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8059116 - 02/23/08 02:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:


Oh jiggy, you are so cute, Obama supporters here probably only ask you to provide links to the unsubstantiated garbage that you propose regarding Obama, mostly because it usually is completely baseless.




Slow down and breath. The unsubstantiated garbage I posted came from Obama's own Plan.  Did you read the link?




Wow, okay, you so don't get it. :royalrainbow:

Think for a second. I was specifically referring to your statement, "why is it that Obama supporters here know so little about their candidate that they ask me for links to learn more about him?", which is a blatantly obtuse statement, as I clearly demonstrated, because Obama supporters here only ask you for links for the unsubstantiated garbage that you propose, such as "He is hypocritical for voting for the Bush/Cheney energy bill", or "He voted to build the NAFTA superhighway".

At least you gave enough information for the energy bill for a rational thinking individual to research into it and successfully debunk the notion that he was hypocritical, voting in a way to contradict his stance on the issues.

You still haven't produced anything of enough substance, as far as a source (your responsibility in producing for the statement), for that one to be debunked.





Okay, now listen carefully here:

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE LINK THAT YOU HAD POSTED!

And neither were you, the statement you quoted of me saying was in response to your assertion that Obama supporters ask you for links to learn more about him. They ask you for links because most of the garbage you put forth on Obama DO NOT HAVE LINKS. They ask you for links so they can show you that you are more than likely wrong. NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE LINK YOU POSTED. I KNEW IT WAS FROM HIS WEBSITE. I KNEW OF HIS PLANS TO DO THIS BEFORE I DECIDED TO SUPPORT HIM.

Quote:


I agree, mandating 50 hours of community service for middle and high school students is garbage. You and crum bum act as if every student in the U.S. is a failing, unmotivated,  degenerate, juvenile delinquent, looser without caring parents from an inner city, who needs to do time serving others.




No, I don't act as if that is the case. You continue to parade around the false notion that community service is a sentence to punishment. It isn't.

In fact, it is the best and brightest and most motivated and developed children who would benefit most from, and give the most through, community service, because they are most capable of doing so well, most receptive to learning and growing from the experience, which will give them more strength of character to be a success in the future.

Community service isn't punishment. Its educational, and it is capable of bringing an education to American students that they sorely lack, which is why it has a place in schools. Schools have the power of bringing a community together, and the ways children have that effect don't only have to be through playing sports.

Quote:


My apologies to both of you for being able to relate your middle and HS years to being as such.




It isn't the case; that is not how I relate to my years in public schooling. The points was, of course, that I know from experience that adding community service to the education provided in public schools is not more of any more of an encroachment on personal freedom as school itself is. Public school might be an encroachment on personal freedom, but parents are still capable of providing alternate means of education that the state recognizes, and I can't say that I resent having been schooled too much, but what I do resent is all of the failings that exist in education in this country, how it is not carried out effectively, and I recognize that this is due to the fact that America never really focuses on education, which is what Obama does. 

Quote:


What are you talking about? This is a Political forum. There is a Presidential race underway. Criticizing platforms is a part of Political debate. What the hell do you think the candidates do with each other on stage during a debate?




Yes, but you don't actually engage in meaningful discussion of facts. You simply emotionally react to your own misconceptions, and when someone tries showing you this, you conclude that they don't know the candidate, and then you make little statements that mock people who have already read and become quite familiar with the information you post in this thread.

I appreciate the opportunity you create in discussing the issues, but I'm simply saying that you aren't really discussing the matter in any efective way. Comparing community service to punishment and child labor is simply an emotional appeal, which has no place in ideaological discussion. You won't actually debate someone when they put you to the spot for what you say.

Quote:


How many times do I have to type this? Please sticky this to your monitor. If you or anyone else here supports Obama, you do.




Okay, let me try to let this one sink in....

If, I, or, say, someone else, supports Obama....

then...

they support Obama.



:sherlock:

Okay, I think I got it. :smirk: It took awhile for the meaning of that one to sink in. :wink:

Quote:


That is not the issue with me. We all have our own personal favorites and right to choose for ourselves as it should be.




Most admirable realization. :thumbup:

Quote:


My goal in such posts is informing voters/U.S. citizens, of things they may not be aware of about the candidates, what may be to come if they are elected and opening a venue for discussing them.




Exactly, but you don't approach the matter in any honest way. Referring to community service as child labor doesn't produce any kind of response other than to your false conception of community service as child labor. If you were actually interested in seeking out honest, open discussion on the candidates and their policies, then you would put more effort into producing links when you make stupid statements like "Obama voted for the NAFTA superhighway", so they can research the information for themselves, reach their own conclusions, and then, possibly, demonstrate to you the error in your thinking (as what happened with the debate regarding the energy bill).

Besides, how can we believe that Obama would really implement community service for childen in public school? Its all just rhetoric, isn't it? Maybe its all just feel-good stuff. :shrug:

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You can't give no credit to the change that a candidate seeks that would actually be a good step in the country, saying he doesn't actually mean it, but then focus on all of the things that you personally don't agree with and then portray him as meaning it. :lol:

:sorry:

Quote:


This identity you have of me as being some savior of people from voting for Obama, is your delusion.




No, its evident in statements that you have made, asking why is it that Obama supporters ask you for links to learn about their candidate, etc. The emotionalism that you instill within your presentations implies that you are revealing his hidden agenda. As coaster was great to point out with that video, Obama actually campaigns on the idea that students will become involved with community service.

Quote:


It's down to Hillary, Obama and McCain and I equally despise all 3 of them for the position. I have not a damned thing to gain anymore regarding this election.




They still represent three different courses for the country to take. Your interest is your own interest, and if the difference between Obama and McCain isn't enough of an incentive to take interest, then that's fine. There is always the possibility that Obama will not fufill the expectations, but I already know what I would get with McCain, and Obama will, at the very least be somewhat better than McCain and his policy of perpetual war and worsening global tensions in a very tumultous, delicate time. Either way, America's intervention in the world's affairs will become less prominent, and the world will rely less on America's wealth, but I at least prefer that America doesn't have to collapse and suffer for it. Obama's stance on Iraq was campaigned on before and he's campaigning on it again, and if he didn't deliver on his promise then he would lose everything that he has established for himself. He's not stupid. That money will start going into making America better. That's all I need to know to submit my absentee ballot for Obama. :thumbup:



Quote:


Do you have anything to contribute about this plan of his or not?




I already did. It is not my fault if you cannot read, or cannot comprehend what you read. I try my best to make sure you understand what I am saying, but there certainly is a point of no return as far as that goes.

Quote:


If you think our public educational system is a place to be mandating community service for middle and high school kids then state why.




I already did. Go back and read again. I even cited specific examples of myself participating in community service in school. Go back and read. 

Quote:


I think that is a personal values issue that belongs to families and churches to teach for the acts to have any real meaning.




Nonsense. Community service that is filtered through the church is divisive due to the inherent nature that the organization that is providing the community service considers itself seperate from the rest of the community due to their religious beliefs. Families often don't organize in a way to provide community service, but there are some organizations such as Boy Scouts that provide opportunities for community service. I think there is a common trend amongst children in school to make fun of people that belong to organizations such as that. Schools are secular and all-inclusive, thus the community service that can be provided through schools, as well as the educational opportunities that as much brings to children, is capable of being most effective. Also, teachers receive certified education from colleges, so the quality of the community service can be ensured through higher education. It is a way to ensure that standards are met in community service, because, as lonestar says, will they just be sending these kids into the streets of Baltimore unsupervised?

The answer is of course not. :lol:

Quote:


U.S, students are falling far behind the academic achievements of other first world countries and Obama wants our kids to divert academic school time to manual labor servitude as a solution. :what: He wants to further contribute to the dumbing down of America in my eyes for proposing this!:thumbdown:




Well then, in your extensive, unbiased research of Obama (:rofl2:) you've no doubt noticed that he also has a comprehensive plan of reforming education to restore America's standing on the planet as a world leader in education. Feel free to share with us what his comprehensive educational plan is. If you ask me, I might do so later.

You were the one, of course, that couldn't see how giving teachers more incentive to be teachers through tax breaks mattered, because teachers are only 1% of the population, and you had to ask, what about the rest of the 99% of us? :smirk:

Quote:


Raise your own kid to be an unpaid servant of the government if you want too.




I'd rather raise my own kid to be an individual. Community service doesn't make one less an individual, it strengthens the individual, and benefits the community as well. If children are already going to school, they might as well get a better education and help others in the process. :thumbup:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineblackegg
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8059127 - 02/23/08 02:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OH MY GOD OBAMA'S GONNA SUCK OUR CHILDREN INTO SPACESHIPS AND ENSLAVE THEM!!
TELL EVERYONE!!!!
:tinfoil:
My 1/2 assed, completely knee-jerk, common sense guess is that you can *volunteer* to do this community service in order to get money for college.

You're still free to not go to college or not volunteer.

<<<Edit: Video already posted.>>>


...and I think it's a great idea to give kids the opportunity to volunteer in a Peace Corp type organization to earn college tuition.

I know for damn sure that visiting some third world country as a kid would've given me a whole different perspective on America's 'unique position' in the world.

Edited by blackegg (02/23/08 02:38 AM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8059135 - 02/23/08 02:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
If you yourself had one, you would realize that scrubbing graffitti off of walls and pushing seniors in wheel chairs for walks does nothing to help Americas school children to compete in math, science, business finance, marketing, trade, technology, critical thinking and creativeinnovation  in a global marketplace when they get out of school.




Wow, I hadn't realized that.. I thought the senior citizens would share their reflections on quantam mechanics, chaos theory, and Plato, and that scrubbing walls would create a meditative state in which one would realize the energy that exists within the act. :smirk:

You have to realize that this is one aspect of a comprehensive education reform plan. It is only so many hours of a year. It probably wouldn't even be that many hours, but that he is simply setting an idealistic goal to inspire at least some amount of hours being achieved.

School isn't just about learning facts and becoming a computer for some job, jiggy.

Quote:


Mandated community service will better acedemic education in America how?




By giving children life experience in the community, receiving opportunities to develop skills interacting with others and taking on new tasks and working together to create positive results. Creating aware beings who are full of character facilitates further education. 

Quote:


Ignoring acedemia during school hours in favor of  picking up trash along the side of the road is a damn good way to stay ignorant and yes, I fear this plan will contribute to the ignorance of Americas public school population.




Yes, exactly, you fear that, and it obscures your ability to understand the role that community service plays in education. Children aren't computers to be programmed with facts and numbers to be prepared for some job. Giving children a dose of reality in school has a lot of potential for bettering reality. God knows they don't get it at home, watching television with their parents, even though the television claims they do. :smirk: The opportunity for those who are good parents and for individuals who are aware enough to be their own free person to do as they wish hasn't been removed. I see no reason to think that public education could not become more comprehensive, diverse, and involve something such as community service. Again, referring to the time we went out to take care of the trout stream, that was a fun day. It was nice to get out of the classroom to go be out in nature and listen and see the water and chill out, just as it is fun to go on field trips to go to cool places, or to watch a movie in class that seeks to educate in a different manner, or to walk alongside a river on a beautiful day to go see a water treatment plant, or to go to a local artist studio and see some paintings, or to hold a musical recital. Actually getting involved in the world around you is a great way to learn, and it pays great dividends in developing a person who will be more capable of learning stuff like math or science. Not only will they learn it, but they will hold a practical sense of it, which is what I think is most important. :thumbup:

Quote:


I rest my case.




Oh, you rest your pointlessly judgemental case? Someone who is stoned is more perceptive of the sensory information that their body and mind produce. Those who have become disciplined in the practice are probably more capable of thinking or going about day-to-day activities than most sober, unaware individuals are. Of all the places to present such ignorant prejudice. :shocked: :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: blackegg]
    #8059141 - 02/23/08 02:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
I know for damn sure that visiting some third world country as a kid would've given me a whole different perspective on America's 'unique position' in the world.




Exactly. Most Americans have never left their country, hell, a lot of them have not even left the state they live in. :lol:

The simple fact that he has lived in Indonesia and has all of this background seeing the planet has to count for something in regards to his policies on the rest of the planet, and, in fact, it does... his foreign policy is very reasonable. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: blackegg]
    #8059152 - 02/23/08 02:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Most kids today live in bubbles, floating through life on their cell phones, disconnected from the unpleasant realities surrounding them. How can this be a bad thing?

It's not like they are being forced to labor for large corporations in sweat factories.

They will get more than they give.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: zorbman]
    #8059193 - 02/23/08 03:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:


Does it not net benefit society as a whole?

Whom does it hurt?


Does it actually take away from their studies anymore than any other extracuricular activity?

Is providing a service to society (which in turn supports children) a bad thing?

Should a society only have rights without responsibilities?




Do you realize you are describing communism?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism

If that's okay with you then fine.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8059208 - 02/23/08 03:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I have one thing to say to you ego maniac.

You never asked me for a link related to Obama in here Capt Klink.

Zorb did the other day, and I gave him one and I thought back to that when I made that crack.

Get over yourself and get over your delusion that you are on my mind when I make posts here. There are other members I have discussions with you know.


You love Obama. You want your children to be free servants of the government.

FINE.

Maybe some people here don't. This is for them.

If you want to change their minds about it give it your best argument.

You won't be able to talk me into accepting communism.

:bye:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8059242 - 02/23/08 03:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I have one thing to say to you ego maniac.




:lol:

Quote:


You never asked me for a link related to Obama in here Capt Klink.




Yes, I have, multiple times, you simply don't read, or, if you do, you can't comprehend it, or you simply have a horrible mental recall. There is plenty of discussion regarding this in the Michelle Obama thread.

Quote:


Zorb did the other day, and I gave him one and I thought back to that when I made that crack.

Get over yourself and get over your delusion that you are on my mind when I make posts here. There are other members I have discussions with you know.




:smirk:

Don't be coy. We've recently been enagaing in heated discussion on the topic. You might have other discussions with other members but you've had them with me as well and I am an Obama supporter. Your attitude is quite apparent in your posts.

Its all regardless, because I've specifically engaged you in discussion on all points of the topics you've raised and you fail to actually say anything relevant to that discussion.

Quote:


You love Obama. You want your children to be free servants of the government.

FINE.




No, it is not the case, and I've already went to a great length to clearly demonstrate to anyone who is capable of a seventh-grade reading comprehension level my perspective on the matter, and how it is not congruent in the slightest with wanting children to be free servants of the government.

All you have demonstrated is your ignorance and your fear-based emotionalism on the subject.

Quote:


You won't be able to talk me into accepting communism.





Of course not, you'd rather live in your little world in which you don't participate in honest discussion of ideas and you don't have to try to understand. Sure, label it communism in a negative connotation. Maybe you can burn some witches while you are at it. Nothing like torturing Christians out of ignorance and equating community service with child labor and government servitude.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinecrumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8059274 - 02/23/08 03:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I could expect somone with the user name crumb bum, to find a nanny government to wipe your ass for you, as an ideal. :tongue:

The planet already has commie countries with dictators. Ever thought about immigrating to North Korea?:)

I don't appreciate anyone trying to turn my Free country into one, including Barrack.:nonono:




Wow. You're really just kind of a miserable debater. You ACTUALLY went to the point of using an Ad Hominem argument about my SCREEN NAME, and then ignored most of the rest of what I'd said in favor of actually using the old "Well if you like it like that you can move to Cuba but ain't no one gonna change my 'Merica!"

Your FREE country? You're on a website where the primary discussion revolves around doing a LARGE variety of things for which this government would KIDNAP and BLACKMAIL us for doing. Any one of us, should our actually prosecuteable offenses be calculated, would probably spend the rest of our lives in jail. Shit, I'd probably get more than 100 hours of community service for the paltry ammount of weed I've got on me now. Can you IMAGINE if the police were efficient enough to discover and charge any of us, as they'd like to?

That's just the most topical example, there are hundreds more.

Even if we were somehow "Free", how, in a capitalist society, are we ever free from labor? We actually have less choice about our actual jobs then we do about community service. As an American, you'll rise to roughly your level. If you're dumb you do manual, unskilled labor or service. If you're smart you'll go to college and enter into the middle class and do some vaguely intellectually involved job. If you're smart and ammoral, you'll enter into the upper middle class, and do less work. If you're dumb or smart and born into the upper class, you'll do little or no work, and any that you do will be chiefly symbolic. The options outside of this scheme are unattractive, difficult, and shunned, and rightfully so, as they all represent some kind of rejection of this system that, if practiced as maxim, would cause the collapse of the whole. We have the illusion, within capitalism, that we EARN things. Rather the opposite, we have only what others give us, and it's the ultimate goal of capitalism to minimalize that number. Your boss can't deny you your promised wage, more than that? Doesn't matter how hard you work. What matters is if the people who have more are willing to give some of it to you, to ensure further loyalty.

So if you can outline for me what exactly about America's econimic system makes us free, or how free our legal system is, than go ahead.

And how quickly you resort to claiming that this will entail the government holding our hands and wiping our asses. How does that even APPLY to this situation outside from being a general put down of liberal thinking? Do you REALLY think that you're so independent? If you don't want any help from a government, go live in the woods! As long as we reguard and movement along a continuum as a catapualting towards the most extreme conclusion (I.E. assuming that a favor for minor socialism is essentially a loyalty oath to Stalin), then why don't you just go totally independent and live off the grid without government protection or manufactured goods?

We agree to governments because we want a big group to help us. There's no other reason for a government. ALL government spending is socialism and liberalism. We're the wealthiest nation on the earth.

Why, exactly, is one person's right to make money more valuable than another persons need to eat food or get medical attention?

Ultimately why I support this is that in the best case scenario high school and college kids will learn to do nice things for other people without expecting too much in return, and will perhaps learn to enjoy spending time with the elderly or cleaning up the park and become less economically minded and more concerned with what they can do to help people around them. And in the worst case, they can learn to work for hours at a time and to ultimately have nothing to show for it, which will be the pattern of the rest of their lives.

There are countless other benefits along the gamut. After a few generations, it would promote a better work ethic and a generally stronger work force.

As for the poster who compared this to the draft.... come on. I mean, really, talk about stupid emotive comparisons.  In one, we took a generation of kids and sent them overseas to kill and die. This plan proposes we take a generation of kids and send them into their own neighborhoods to clean stuff. You can shout "Forced Labor is Forced Labor" all you like, but these, and slavery, are qualitatively different things, and it's a fairly basic bit of sophistry to try and equivocate them with one another. One could just as easily take any two events with similar components, focus on the right elements, and erroneously equate the two. Your argument hinges on the recognition and focus on the factors of the situation you've been trained to see as important. "Community Service". The first thing you see isn't what they'll be doing, or why. It's that they won't get paid. Really, in our society, what's more interesting, what you do for a living, or how much it pays? Who has more in common, a rich doctor and a poor nurse, or a rich doctor and a rich lawyer?

I mean honestly, as old, stodgy and conservative as you're trying to come off, I'm surprised you're opposed to forcing the teenagers and snotty twenty somethings to do some chores round the nation to build 'em some character...




I reiterate the point, I dislike teenagers. And I really won't give a fuck about spending a month leafblowing the park, but snotty, preppy and emo little teenagers will be miserable, and I'll be there to enjoy it, so this all works out really well for me. I'll work part time smoking weed behind trees, feeding bread to ducks, and leaf blowing. It'd be cool if the park was a little cleaner, and the teenagers were a little less happy and a little more humble.

Edited by crumblebum (02/23/08 03:56 AM)

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Offlineblackegg
...has left the building.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: All middle, highschool and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: crumblebum]
    #8059377 - 02/23/08 05:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jig:
I have one thing to say to you ego maniac.

You never asked me for a link related to Obama in here Capt Klink.

Zorb did the other day, and I gave him one and I thought back to that when I made that crack.

Get over yourself and get over your delusion that you are on my mind when I make posts here. There are other members I have discussions with you know.


You love Obama. You want your children to be free servants of the government.

FINE.

Maybe some people here don't. This is for them.

If you want to change their minds about it give it your best argument.

You won't be able to talk me into accepting communism.

:bye:







:rofl2:
Why can't you just admit that you were wrong ...(Edit: I said something downright  stupid right here.:sad:)

Jesus...

what's could be so threatening to your ego that you have to post this and then RUN AWAY FROM THE ARGUEMENT?



Quote:

jig:
I don't use drugs, never really have except for trying pot and shrooms a few times in my late teens. Not for me. I'm 39 now.





This really explains quite a bit about why you defend every one of your positions to the death, call people names like you're in 3rd grade and get upset when someone proves you wrong.



I suggest you (and lonestar and zappa) take a small peek outside this one particular forum every few hundred posts and get a clue as to where you are actually at.

:mushroom2: :bongload:

It might make you guys seem a little less like a pack of trolls.




Quote:

jig:
You love Obama. You want your children to be free servants of the government.

FINE.

Maybe some people here don't. This is for them.






OKAY, LISTEN UP EVERYBODY!!

only people who are willing to agree with everything   GettingJiggyWithIt  says are allowed to post a response to him !

:rotfl:

Edited by blackegg (02/29/08 05:59 AM)

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: All middle, high school and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: blackegg]
    #8059458 - 02/23/08 07:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I went to a private high school with 20 hours mandatory community service each year.

Most of the kids didn't do it and got someone to just sign the slips(teachers included)
Some did it and generally hated it
Some did activities for their own reasons that happen to give hours.
A few did so much as to try to win an award.

I got my hours mostly thanks to breast cancer and the YMCA which I would have been doing whether I needed hours or not. From my experience, mandatory community service will do little to nothing other than getting kids to hate school even more.

I think an optional part time job would be better for kids than mandatory community service.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

Edited by d33p (02/23/08 07:48 AM)

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Offlineblackegg
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Registered: 01/25/06
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: All middle, high school and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: d33p]
    #8059486 - 02/23/08 07:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

An optional part time job isn't going to pay them nearly 100 dollars an hour though.

And I think it's been pretty well established by now...*it's not mandatory*.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison

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Invisiblebradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
Re: All middle, high school and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: d33p]
    #8059489 - 02/23/08 07:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Its really simple. If you believe in big government and that the government has any right under law to make our children do work for them in their school time, then vote Obama.

If however you want less government and the government out of your children's education, out of your personal life, the lives of your children, then vote for Ron Paul.


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -

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Invisiblebradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
Re: All middle, high school and college students sentenced to community service under Obama's rule [Re: blackegg]
    #8059495 - 02/23/08 07:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blackegg said:
An optional part time job isn't going to pay them nearly 100 dollars an hour though.

And I think it's been pretty well established by now...*it's not mandatory*.




I think its one step in the direction to being mandatory. Its just another system of control. I want my kids to have freedom and individual liberty.


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -

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