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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: zappaisgod]
#8056874 - 02/22/08 03:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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So you'll only agree to believe Obama's story if we agree to believe the one that is against Beauchamp's?
Is that really your point?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
Edited by Madtowntripper (02/22/08 03:08 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8056909 - 02/22/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Obama said:
"They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief."
so did he lie or is he just Ignorant?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8057003 - 02/22/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Obama said: "they didn't have enough ammunition"
and if our guys don't have the proper equipment and weapons so we're forced to capture theirs
how are we dong it????
we must have some bad ass troops!
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/22/08 03:32 PM)
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8057182 - 02/22/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now do you think that not having enough ammunition means waking up one day and saying "well we're all out now," or do you think it means realizing you don't have what you expect you'll need?
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8057191 - 02/22/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: Obama said:
"They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief."
so did he lie or is he just Ignorant?
Possibly neither. Saying they didn't go after the Taliban specifically to get their weapons isn't the same as saying that they didn't take their weapons due to inadequate supply of their own, or that if they hadn't taken them they would not possibly have experienced or risked a shortage.
You put much too much effort into smearing... I think you're dumbing yourself down.
Edited by Disco Cat (02/22/08 04:19 PM)
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8057232 - 02/22/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Right, because our troops are so well equipped right? Because it's not like the army wouldn't supply troops with essential equipment like body armor right? Because we're certainly not over-extended in both Iraq and Afghanistan right? So there's absolutely no way U.S. troops ever used Taliban equipment right? Seriously, get a clue.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8057415 - 02/22/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
fireworks_god said: Why, because he sees a problem with not protecting our own troops well enough and he seeks to improve it?
Honestly, do you believe we are not suppling our troops with guns???????
what are we fighting the Taliban with? Sling shots?
It scares the fuck out of me that the potential Commander in Chief believes this crap.....
Where have you been? This is old news...
You do know that our troops weren't even properly supplied in Iraq? Some carried AK's instead of m4s or m16s., humvies were shit, etc.
Do you remember what Rumsfeld said? "You don't go with the army you want but with the army you got" or something along those lines. You don't remember him saying that as a response to critics?
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: downforpot]
#8058759 - 02/22/08 11:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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NATO is about ready to break up because America abandoned Afghanistan for all practical purposes and is trying to hold NATO with the check. The Secretary of the Defense spends more time going at Germany as though they are in debt of troops, and Germany is wondering what the fuck it ever did to get into Afghanistan in the first place.
Afghanistan is why we went into the Middle East with war like this. Iraq was not suspossed to in the agenda, fighting al-Qaeda was, and Obama is saying we need to get out Iraq because we've done them a favor enough and have given them a chance to make their government as they wish, but to go back into Afghanistan first to finish the job before we pull out all major presence, simply keeping a strategic strike presence in case of an emergency. He then wants to equip that force with better-rotated troops, and with more technological advances.
By the sounds of it, Iraq could take care of itself if we left but Afghanistan can't until we finish the job. He was suggesting strikes into Pakistan that bypassed the Pakistani government because he knew they would not act in our interest and that we face no real loss from losing their favor in doing so because we could tactically strike them in a heartbeat if we needed to do so. Now, right as John McCain tried to criticize that judgement of Obama, we found out that the military is now carrying out these strikes, and it is working to kill al-Qaeda.
Obama might very well have embellished the story, it does have some basis in the reality of the matter, but time and time again, people forget that the majority of the American people are not informed and a lot of them are simply stupid.
He can't explain to them interrelated concepts regarding foreign policy because they don't understand it. He runs an effective campaign, even if it means he uses a couple of lines from a chairman on his campaign or embellishes a point. That simply makes him a clever politician. I know the idea that a politician would be a politician is denounable, but it clearly works, its the nature of the beast. That doesn't, of course, mean that it can't be known what he will actually seek to do as President.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: Gastronomicus]
#8060043 - 02/23/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said: Right, because our troops are so well equipped right? Because it's not like the army wouldn't supply troops with essential equipment like body armor right? Because we're certainly not over-extended in both Iraq and Afghanistan right? So there's absolutely no way U.S. troops ever used Taliban equipment right? Seriously, get a clue.
WOW no bullets and now no Body Armor?
did Obama say that?
"the army does not supply our troops with body armor"
do you have a link?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060512 - 02/23/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Congress has allocated funds for all U.S. troops to wear 16-pound, ceramic-plated Interceptor body armor (search), but as many as 51,000 American soldiers and civilian administrators in Iraq have not yet been equipped with the gear, and have been asking friends and families at home to purchase and send them off-the-shelf models for protection."
"Pentagon sources said that in the initial phase of hostilities with Iraq, all American combat forces were equipped with the Interceptor, but the Defense Department was not prepared to equip so many occupying forces. Reservists and troops recently rotated to Iraq have particularly suffered from the lack of gear."
"U.S. soldiers not issued the Interceptor equipment are using enhanced versions of the Vietnam-era flak jackets, which are incapable of stopping a round from a Kalashnikov (search) or AK-47, the most common weapon in Iraq."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101061,00.html
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060546 - 02/23/08 01:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
Gastronomicus said: Seriously, get a clue.
WOW no bullets and now no Body Armor?
did Obama say that?
"the army does not supply our troops with body armor"
do you have a link?
Summer, 1999 - The Interceptor body armor replaces the PASGT as standard issue body armor for front-line soldiers in the Army. The vest weighs 8 pounds, and two ceramic Small Arms Protective Inserts (SAPI) each weigh 4 pounds, for a total of 16 pounds. It can stop shrapnel and small-arms fire, including that of an AK-47. The Army plans to issue Interceptor body armor to U.S. forces gradually, over an eight-year period ending in 2007.
"standard issue body armor for front-line soldiers in the Army."
So please please please show me a link where our front line troops did not have body armor.
October 7, 2001 - Operation Enduring Freedom commences to remove the Taliban from power in Afghanistan. Army distributes Interceptor armor to military personnel during this operation.
March 20, 2003 - Operation Iraqi Freedom begins. At the time, the Interceptor body armor is issued standard to Army and Marine ground troops. Most support troops (such as truck drivers) and National Guard and Reserve troops still lack the bullet-stopping Interceptor armor, however. In anticipation of the war, the Pentagon already has increased its orders sharply. As the war starts quarterly orders for vests reach 77,000 – nine times higher than pre-war levels. Orders for plates reach 109,000, eleven times higher than previously.
So most of the support troops (such as truck drivers) still did not have the improved body armor immediately....
May 2003 - Army orders Interceptor body armor be issued to all soldiers, including support troops.
October 2003 - Military commanders order that Interceptor armor be given to all military and civilian personnel in Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan.
January 2004 - All soldiers serving in Iraq have been issued body armor according to US Central Command.
January 2004 - All soldiers serving in Iraq have been issued body armor according to US Central Command.
http://www.factcheck.org/article438.html
FACT The front line troops always had body armor.
FACT the truck drivers, support troops and civilians received the body armor a few months later....
I Seriously, got a clue!
Some people don't let the FACTS get in the way of misrepresenting any given situation for their own political gain.....
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/23/08 01:57 PM)
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060557 - 02/23/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did you even read what the Fox news article?
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: downforpot]
#8060566 - 02/23/08 02:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
downforpot said:
Reservists and troops recently rotated to Iraq have particularly suffered from the lack of gear."
so do you by any chance know how many reservists/support troops died in the few months of not having the improved body armor?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: downforpot]
#8060574 - 02/23/08 02:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
downforpot said: Did you even read what the Fox news article?
yes i did.
did you read the facts.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060578 - 02/23/08 02:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
downforpot said:
Reservists and troops recently rotated to Iraq have particularly suffered from the lack of gear."
so do you by any chance know how many reservists/support troops died in the few months of not having the improved body armor?
That is a disingenuous question and proves absolutely nothing. Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060585 - 02/23/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
downforpot said: Did you even read what the Fox news article?
yes i did.
did you read the facts.
I read the actual website. All of their sources are .gov sites. LOL Very independent reporting, lol.
This is really old news.... I am honestly astonished that you have been living under a rock or just straight up believing what the government agencies say....
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (02/23/08 02:04 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060590 - 02/23/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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the fact is that for a few months truck drivers and civilians did not have the improved armor.
wow....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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downforpot
Stranger

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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060602 - 02/23/08 02:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Spc. Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee Army National Guard asked Rumsfeld to explain why vehicle armor is still in scarce supply. "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to 'up-armor' our vehicles?" Wilson asked. Applause and loud cheers erupted from many of the 2,300 soldiers at the meeting.
Standing his ground, Rumsfeld responded, "You go to war with the Army you have."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-12-08-rumsfeld-iraq_x.htm
"But, like thousands of U.S. soldiers, his wife was not given the vital ceramic plates for her Kevlar Interceptor vest to protect her from bullet wounds. Instead, he said, she had to scavenge to find plates left behind by Iraqi soldiers — plates of inferior quality that do not properly fit her vest."
"Obituaries and news accounts raise the disturbing prospect that we have had soldiers seriously wounded or killed due to the shortage of body armor. Many note wounds to the chest and stomach areas — areas that might have been protected by the Interceptor vests and plates."
"The Pentagon confirms that at least 40,000 of the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq don't have basic Kevlar Interceptor vests or the ceramic plates needed for full protection."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-12-17-turley_x.htm
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (02/23/08 02:15 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: downforpot]
#8060633 - 02/23/08 02:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If we built 8 inch think steel boxes surrounding our troops and we insulated them with bubble wrap and buried them in a deep hole in the ground to insure absolute protection!
would that make you happy?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Obama: US soldiers in Afghanistan so poorly equipped they use Taliban equipment. [Re: lonestar2004]
#8060644 - 02/23/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You are avoiding the statements. The fact is that our troops were not properly supplied.
I also know that war is dangerous but at least admit that some of our troops were not properly equipped.
I also edited my post while you were replying. You can edit your reply if you want.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (02/23/08 02:21 PM)
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