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 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
 
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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 Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. 
#8055118 - 02/22/08 03:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't get it. I take pride in my accomplishments, but not the facts of my birth nor genetic heritage.
My ancestors migrated to Northern Europe? Damn, that makes me feel proud. Almost as if I had the slightest thing to do with it.
My eyes are hazel and my hair is brown. That just makes me shiver with joy.
I enjoy getting physical with females. Wow! How did I manage that? Did I invent sex or something? Was I the first to discover and unlock its secrets?
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 Mitchnast
Toadmonger
Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 8,656
Loc: Okanagan 
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
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people are inherently lazy, they prefer to seek kinship among GRANTED traits instead of earned ones.
Alot of lazy people of similar granted traits TOGETHER then begins to further this lazy association by adopting each others faults as traits of the group, slowly weeding out redeemable character traits.
Suddenly they compete on a lazy level, and feel a pseudo-accomplishment of being the one who exemplifies the lazy culture most strongly.
this is where the PRIDE starts. It makes them more able to feel accomplished for embracing negative and selfish traits that are taking over their lazy society.
This type of human behavior is previlant in ALL identifiable groups of granted-trait association. It tends to be ENHANCED when the traits are obvious identifiers.
So a closed black society is likely to focus on behaviors that set it apart from open OR white society. Subsequently alienating non-blacks, white-friendly blacks, and anyone who doesn't show an exaggerated personality of pride and prejudice.
The same is said for WHITE societies, the culturally elite, Religious groups, and sexual orientations, both strait AND gay.
Once a community has established a simple and obvious identifier has been accepted, they start focusing on it and begin to behave rebelliously to common and outside traits of non-members.
this rapidly degrades the quality of the character of the individual, Whole GROUPS of people lose their individuality in a lazy group mentality, feeling oppressed by whatever society their minority is immersed in, and making their group more tight-knit by rejecting the greater society with exaggerated negative behavior.
which, they become proud of,
racial lazy-association tends to result in gangs.
Sexual-oriented lazy-association tends to result in promiscuity.
Faith-oriented tends to lead to Prosyletization.
These become the GOALS of proud society, EVENTUALLY they start putting effort into their degradation by absorbing aligning or supporting groups and vilifying others.
were pathetic.
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PyroBurns
душа кофе
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
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 Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Mitchnast]
#8055273 - 02/22/08 05:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the point of most of these pride groups is to show they are not ashamed of who they are.
The blacks wanted to stand up and show the white oppressors that they didn't buy into their bullshit. The don't believe they are inferior.
Same with gays. And women.
Though some people take it too far and become racist or militant or whatever.
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: PyroBurns]
#8056033 - 02/22/08 11:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.
Mitchnast, you're full of shit. People tend to gravitate towards others who share similar experiences and perceptions of the world. In a society in which people are marginalized for having particular traits, i.e. thier skin colour or sexual orientation, it is only natural for people who share the experience of that marginalization to come together and resist thier subordination. Where the fuck does laziness come into the equation?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8056221 - 02/22/08 12:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mitchnast, you're full of shit.
This is FLAMING girlfriend.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8056239 - 02/22/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.
I disagree. IMO as long as anyone identifies with any group they become a pawn in a cultural drama, either being oppressed or an oppressor. There is much more freedom to be had in identifying with yourself alone.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8056321 - 02/22/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.
I disagree. IMO as long as anyone identifies with any group they become a pawn in a cultural drama, either being oppressed or an oppressor. There is much more freedom to be had in identifying with yourself alone.
Hells yeah.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8056485 - 02/22/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's not flaming if you follow it up with reasons! 
And as much as I agree that identity politics are limited, and sometimes go no further than creating a comfortable in-group on the periphery of the dominant culture, that doesn't completely invalidate it. One of the first steps to deconstructing the existence of marginalized identity groups is becoming conscious of one's place in the group and subverting the negative stereotypes. Reclaiming terms like 'queer', 'nigger', or 'cunt'are a part of this. Like I said, it's a baby step, it's not an end in and of itself (although many people act as though it is.)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8056548 - 02/22/08 01:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
It's not flaming if you follow it up with reasons!
And as much as I agree that identity politics are limited, and sometimes go no further than creating a comfortable in-group on the periphery of the dominant culture, that doesn't completely invalidate it. One of the first steps to deconstructing the existence of marginalized identity groups is becoming conscious of one's place in the group and subverting the negative stereotypes. Reclaiming terms like 'queer', 'nigger', or 'cunt'are a part of this. Like I said, it's a baby step, it's not an end in and of itself (although many people act as though it is.)
Sorry to tell you but that was flaming as your comment was said about the poster rather than what he posted. Just the fact that you then gave reasons why his post was flawed does not excuse your behavior young lady. A bare bottom spanking may be in order if you don't shape up. (please don't shape up)
I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8056921 - 02/22/08 03:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.
You speak as though moving towards social justice and equality is immature and as though there is something more mature and advanced than that (perhaps passivity?)?
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8056948 - 02/22/08 03:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?
I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill
Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
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Its all bullshit. Get over it.
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"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson
"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?
I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.
Social justice relates to what I think Icelander was talking about.
Users of mushrooms and marijuana may be an oppressed group, but it's a totally different situation. You won't get denied a job or a car loan or housing unless you get drug tested. But how often do you get drug tested before receiving a car loan or a house? Racial minorities will get denied these things simply because of appearance.
Because of so many years of prejudice, racism is still ingrained in our culture. In order to bring balance to that, pride movements are useful as a tool.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: dblaney]
#8057009 - 02/22/08 03:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
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Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.
God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.
Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8057023 - 02/22/08 03:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, pride movements encourage delusion.
It is very easy to jump from one extreme to another... from a shy oppressed to an aggressive oppressor.
How can these movements be useful? Don't they function on the same idea as those who are racist? "Pride" implies a "better than you" state of mind. So does racism.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chemy]
#8057034 - 02/22/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
What would happen if I formed an organization called the European-American Pride center, NFP or INC. whatever.
You'd make some money. 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Fuck pride. It's silly self importance.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8057069 - 02/22/08 03:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
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Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.
God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.
Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?
I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.
Because you're not part of an oppressed group. You choose to enjoy drugs that are illegal, but you are fully capable of hiding your use of them. It's pretty hard to hide being black. Also, the scope of 'oppression' you face as a stoner is pretty trivial compared to the oppression that, say, a black person in the deep south would have faced during Jim Crow... or even now.
You persistently refuse to consider the experience of people in positions significantly different from your own, and I find it really annoying. The whole "it's irrational to have views different from my own" thing is getting a little stale.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8057105 - 02/22/08 03:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
No, pride movements encourage delusion.
It is very easy to jump from one extreme to another... from a shy oppressed to an aggressive oppressor.
How can these movements be useful? Don't they function on the same idea as those who are racist? "Pride" implies a "better than you" state of mind. So does racism.
Arrogance implies a better-than-thou state of mind. Pride does not necessarily = arrogance, and in this case, I think they are separate. These pride movements are about rejecting the cultural values of shame and guilt that seem to come naturally with certain races and sexual orientations. They're about telling everyone that it's okay to be black or gay.
Racism is about someone being better than someone else because of race. The pride movements (AFAIK) are about breaking down the stigma and taboos of minorities. Not about proving that gays or blacks are better than others.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chemy]
#8057127 - 02/22/08 03:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
No, pride movements encourage delusion.
It is very easy to jump from one extreme to another... from a shy oppressed to an aggressive oppressor.
How can these movements be useful? Don't they function on the same idea as those who are racist? "Pride" implies a "better than you" state of mind. So does racism.
Thats what I meant to say in my European-American Pride Center remark.
If whites do it, it is immediately recognized as a "better than you" or "racist" agenda, but if others do it it's "warm and fuzzy"
Right! Whites in our culture form the majority and in many instances, the norm. It's already established. There is no need for pride movements. Any sort of white pride movement would be based on arrogance and being better-than-thou.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8057158 - 02/22/08 03:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Because you're not part of an oppressed group.
500,000 pot smokers jailed this year alone in the USA making it the most oppressed group.
Your 'hiding' and '80 years ago references are not relevant nor logical.
Quote:
You persistently refuse to consider...
Do you not understand what a personalism is or are you unaware of the forum rules?
How would it be, if instead of discussing the topic, we all threw out our meta-analysis of others and presented our uncontrolled emotional reactions as fact?
Quote:
I find it really annoying.
Your annoyment level is something for you to work on. It adds nothing to the debate.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8057219 - 02/22/08 04:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Arrogance implies a better-than-thou state of mind. Pride does not necessarily = arrogance, and in this case, I think they are separate. These pride movements are about rejecting the cultural values of shame and guilt that seem to come naturally with certain races and sexual orientations. They're about telling everyone that it's okay to be black or gay.
If they want to make the statement you are referring to, they wouldn't call themselves "proud gay" but "gay ok".
Let's take a look at the first meaning of the word pride, quoted from the dictionary:
Quote:
pride /praɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, prid·ed, prid·ing.
–noun
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8057230 - 02/22/08 04:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I knew of a guy that liked sex with farm animals. As a member of a super-minority he should be extra proud.
SHEEP FUCKERS PRIDE!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Apparently the number of people who fuck sheep is larger than you might think. 
Ahhh, nothing beats a romantic night, under the stars, having mad sex with 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
I knew of a guy that liked sex with farm animals. As a member of a super-minority he should be extra proud.
SHEEP FUCKERS PRIDE!
Nice red herring.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8057263 - 02/22/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe so, but being proud of one's sexual proclivities, no matter what they are, makes no sense to me.
Who should have greater pride, missionary stylists or doggy stylists? Or perhaps the question is nonsensical.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8057423 - 02/22/08 05:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Arrogance implies a better-than-thou state of mind. Pride does not necessarily = arrogance, and in this case, I think they are separate. These pride movements are about rejecting the cultural values of shame and guilt that seem to come naturally with certain races and sexual orientations. They're about telling everyone that it's okay to be black or gay.
If they want to make the statement you are referring to, they wouldn't call themselves "proud gay" but "gay ok".
Let's take a look at the first meaning of the word pride, quoted from the dictionary:
Quote:
pride /praɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, prid·ed, prid·ing.
–noun
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
Okay, so...not knowing much about the gay pride movement, I decided to Wikipedia it. Here is what it says:
--
"Gay pride or LGBT pride refers to a world wide movement and philosophy asserting that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity. Gay pride advocates work for equal "rights and benefits" for LGBT people.[1][2][3] The movement has three main premises: that people should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity, that sexual diversity is a gift, and that sexual orientation and gender identity are inherent and cannot be intentionally altered.[4]"
--
LGBT people should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity. I take this to mean proud of as opposed to ashamed of. One of the definitions of proud (according to the Merrian-Webster dictionary) is "c: having proper self-respect". It seems like that is the working definition here. And likewise, the definition of pride (according to M-W) is "b: a reasonable or justifiable self-respect" And according to dictionary.com, which is where it looks like you got that definition, "a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem."
The first definition of a word in a dictionary does not mean it is the ONLY definition.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Maybe so, but being proud of one's sexual proclivities, no matter what they are, makes no sense to me.
Who should have greater pride, missionary stylists or doggy stylists? Or perhaps the question is nonsensical.
Again, not the working definition of pride when talking about these movements.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8057634 - 02/22/08 05:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Where I work we have:
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month
African American Month
Hispanic Heritage Month
Asian and Pacific Islander Month
and more..
To me this is setting the tone for getting away with discrimination.
The official corporate goals are to hire/promote X% of X minorities. This sets the climate by recognizing "pride months". If you are basing hiring/promotion on anything other than skills/education, and instead on minority status then this is open discrimination against those outside the "minority".
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month is particularly offensive, it celebrates sexual deviancy as a lifestyle. Can necrophilia, bestiality, pedophilia pride month be far off?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: fivepointer]
#8057695 - 02/22/08 06:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
To me this is setting the tone for getting away with discrimination.
The official corporate goals are to hire/promote X% of X minorities. This sets the climate by recognizing "pride months". If you are basing hiring/promotion on anything other than skills/education, and instead on minority status then this is open discrimination against those outside the "minority".
Good. 
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8057727 - 02/22/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am sorry, but this is remains the basic implication of the word, and this triggers many psychological aspects.
Proud is not the equivalent of normal (as in natural).
Why should someone feel proud because they're gay? "I am proud" is the answer for "I am not ashamed", and as long as we answer to shame we're dealing with an imbalance.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8057967 - 02/22/08 07:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
Okay, so...not knowing much about the gay pride movement, I decided to Wikipedia it. Here is what it says:
--
"Gay pride or LGBT pride refers to a world wide movement and philosophy asserting that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity. Gay pride advocates work for equal "rights and benefits" for LGBT people.[1][2][3] The movement has three main premises: that people should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity, that sexual diversity is a gift, and that sexual orientation and gender identity are inherent and cannot be intentionally altered.[4]"
--
LGBT people should be proud of their sexual orientation and gender identity. I take this to mean proud of as opposed to ashamed of. One of the definitions of proud (according to the Merrian-Webster dictionary) is "c: having proper self-respect". It seems like that is the working definition here. And likewise, the definition of pride (according to M-W) is "b: a reasonable or justifiable self-respect" And according to dictionary.com, which is where it looks like you got that definition, "a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem."
The first definition of a word in a dictionary does not mean it is the ONLY definition.
Excellent post!
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058030 - 02/22/08 07:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm proud because of who I am and what I've done. I don't take pride in a group that I had no influence over.
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Redstorm]
#8058054 - 02/22/08 07:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Shall I quote this again?
Quote:
One of the definitions of proud (according to the Merrian-Webster dictionary) is "c: having proper self-respect". It seems like that is the working definition here. And likewise, the definition of pride (according to M-W) is "b: a reasonable or justifiable self-respect" And according to dictionary.com, which is where it looks like you got that definition, "a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem."
We're working with the other definition of the term here. Taking pride (proper self-respect) in one's oppressed minority group identity is an important step in deconstructing and overcoming that very oppression. If it works, it eventually makes identity 'pride' unecessary. But it is an important step... for the queer scene, it certainly was necessary in the 80's and 90's and it probably still is necessary in places that are behind the times as far as getting over ignorant bigotry goes.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058216 - 02/22/08 08:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have been to nude beaches all over the world with nary an issue. I once took a female date to a public beach (not nude) north of Santa Cruz. I later found later that the local gays had declared it their beach.
We were enjoying our picnic until she couldn't help but notice six naked guys behind us sucking and jerking each other off.
"Swami," she pleaded, "can we please leave before we get hit with flying sperm?" (Funny, but those were her exact words - minus the 'Swami'.)
Once, in a PUBLIC sauna, a gay guy grabbed my cock merely because I struck up an ordinary (non-sexual) conversation with him.
As a young boy fishing, an adult man lured me further into the woods (OK, I was naive) by telling me there was a better fishing spot.
I have at least a dozen more similar stories of totally inappropriate behaviour by these amazingly prideful types.
In some cases, bigotry play a part, but in these encounters, the homosexuals themselves were the ones doing their absolute best to earn a negative image.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/22/08 09:58 PM)
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dblaney
Human Being
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Okay?
Those are some shitty situations, but I don't think they're very representative of any particular population.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8058450 - 02/22/08 09:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.
You speak as though moving towards social justice and equality is immature and as though there is something more mature and advanced than that (perhaps passivity?)?
You're right, I do see it as immature and I already stated why. Go back and read it.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058468 - 02/22/08 09:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You persistently refuse to consider the experience of people in positions significantly different from your own, and I find it really annoying. The whole "it's irrational to have views different from my own" thing is getting a little stale.
This is all his right as a debater on this forum. If you are annoyed it is your personal problem because you need him to act other than he does for you to feel good. This is immature.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
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And I could go on to make a list of shitty things that heterosexual men and women have done. That list doesn't prove anything... and, again, is fallacious because you are implying guilt by association. You commit an awful lot of logical fallacies for a guy so committed to rational thinking.
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058526 - 02/22/08 09:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah,
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058577 - 02/22/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
That list doesn't prove anything
What exactly did I state that my stories proved?
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Did you make that post just for fun? Because I was under the impression that, when engaged in debate, everything one says is generally intended to contribute support for the thesis of one's argument.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058600 - 02/22/08 10:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Barely on topic, but once in the sixth grade, we were celebrating black history month. I asked my teacher why white people didn't have our own history month. All of a sudden, the black kids get up in a rage and fizzy and in the end I got sent to the timeout room where the bad kids go.
By people having "pride" you only seperate and distinguish yourself further from the rest.
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058602 - 02/22/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's definitely true of everything I say.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: appleorange]
#8058619 - 02/22/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's pretty lame that you got a timeout considering you probably were just sincerely curious and didn't understand the situation. It would have been more helpful for the teacher to simply explain why black history month exists. That way it could have been a positive learning experience for everyone.
This reminds me of the time I ruined a kids art project because I thought all those crayon shavings were trash... I got a severely harangued for it when I was only trying to help her tidy up so she could get on with the project! Life is hard in kindergarten.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058633 - 02/22/08 10:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I want Irish history month.  The Irish were seriously discriminated against until they got a foothold.
And what of the Chinese? Or the AmerIndians?
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Sure, why not.
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058664 - 02/22/08 10:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And Icelander month?
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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For the most part, the "Pride groups" seem to be a backlash against discrimination. "You don't like black folks, eh? Well... I'm DAMN PROUD to be BLACK, honky!" It is important not to be ashamed of yourself just because you are a minority, but it takes more than pride to overcome discrimination.
Personally, I think it is more effective for groups that experience discrimination to try to find common ground with the majority and advance the idea that, even though they are 'different', they are still a productive part of society and do not deserve to be disrespected. How is something like a Gay Pride Parade supposed to help integrate gays into the society? If anything, it strengthens the stereotypes associated with being gay and creates stronger divisions between heterosexuals and homosexuals.
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NiamhNyx
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So minority groups should assimilate into dominant culture in order to be accepted?
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058838 - 02/22/08 11:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You talkin to me?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058873 - 02/23/08 12:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you mean they should be incorporated into society - having their differences viewed as if it where any other benign difference (hair color, height, etc) - then yes.
If you mean that they should conform to the "mean of society," then... that doesn't make any damn sense considering the purpose of a Gay/Black/Hispanic "Pride group."
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NiamhNyx
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Can you rephrase your second sentence? I don't grasp your intended meaning.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058904 - 02/23/08 12:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do not think people should try to alter some aspect of their personality, beliefs, physical body, etc in order to be accepted by the majority of people in a society.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Thanks. I agree. I got the impression from your earlier post that you were advocating the opposite.
On that note, I don't think that pride parades are intended to integrate homos into dominant society. I have my own qualms with the Pride Parade (the commercialization of queer culture, for one...) But really, the point is probably more about having fun than anything else. I imagine that back in the day it was a sort of fuck-you to the mainstream that would have found any overt public expression of homosexuality to be utterly repugnant. If you think about it, it's probably contributed positively to the changing attitudes we've seen recently. Making queer culture public creates an accessible, visible support network for people who'd otherwise be closeted and possibly isolated.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058967 - 02/23/08 12:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just think it is dumb to identify yourself by your skin color or sexual orientation.
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NiamhNyx
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I hear ya. But do you understand the important role identity politics have played in the past? Perhaps it's time to transcend it (and we could debate this for years) but that doesn't mean it hasn't played a beneficial role.
On that note, queers definitly have the best dance parties.
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TheCow
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
I want Irish history month. The Irish were seriously discriminated against until they got a foothold.
And what of the Chinese? Or the AmerIndians?
ahhh how cute, the wittle swami feels all left out. 
Don't be so sad
All Ill say on this extremely unintelligent topic is that its absurd to compare the Irish being discriminated against in some areas with the discrimination against black people. Your whole argument is too absurd for me to bother with. Take it to mysticism my man
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: TheCow]
#8059024 - 02/23/08 01:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, it's kind of silly to create hierarchies of oppression. Is there some kind of ranking system in which bragging rights go to whoever belongs to the most oppressed minority (extra points to those in 2 or more groups)?
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TheCow
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8059032 - 02/23/08 01:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Is there some kind of ranking system
Yes
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: TheCow]
#8059035 - 02/23/08 01:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ahhh how cute, the wittle swami feels all left out. Don't be so sad
Seeing as how I am not Irish, I am unsure of your point.
Quote:
All Ill say on this extremely unintelligent topic is that its absurd to compare the Irish being discriminated against in some areas with the discrimination against black people.
You may say that being ignorant of early Irish-American history.
Quote:
Your whole argument is too absurd for me to bother with.
Which is why you bothered to respond. 
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TheCow
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Which is why you bothered to respond.
Yea
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8059323 - 02/23/08 04:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Past races and gays were meant to feel inferior and have this imprinted on them, thus they now feel the need to be so proud about everything, they jst need to do it instead of letting go, so in turn probably see themsleves as superior to get over this, ie the blackman is god and all that crap, we are ALL god!
The other day this woman came up to me in the street (this old crackhead looking black woman) sorry but she did look like that, and she said to me why do all white men look so full of themselves, when this is just how she perceives white men! As me and my (black) friend were just chillin, just observing life!
She has this perception we think were superior or something so needs to feel so black and so proud to overcome this.
Then i asked her why do black men walk down the street grabbing theyre nuts and talking so loudly just to shut her up 
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chronic7]
#8059327 - 02/23/08 04:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crabs? Jock itch?
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: TheCow]
#8059969 - 02/23/08 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said:
Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Is there some kind of ranking system
Yes
Care to explain it to me? Which group is the #1 most oppressed? I'd like a list please, in order from most to least oppressed, including historical cases. I'd also like a concise synopsis of the criteria for ranking if you could.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8059980 - 02/23/08 11:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anybody can be oppressed. I am proud to be part of the dominator culture. 
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TheCow
Stranger
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8060029 - 02/23/08 11:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright, Ill get that to you. Just wait a bit
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: TheCow]
#8060057 - 02/23/08 11:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.
God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.
Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chemy]
#8060128 - 02/23/08 12:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can't apply for those things because you're a white man? Give me a break.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8060165 - 02/23/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are hereby granted one break.
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dblaney
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#8060245 - 02/23/08 12:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
I am sorry, but this is remains the basic implication of the word, and this triggers many psychological aspects.
Proud is not the equivalent of normal (as in natural).
Why should someone feel proud because they're gay? "I am proud" is the answer for "I am not ashamed", and as long as we answer to shame we're dealing with an imbalance.
Who said proud is the same thing as normal?
The working definition of proud is posted above, so let's go from there. And as you've been so keen to point out, if psychological 'aspects' (what does that mean exactly?) are triggered, that is your work, not anyone else's.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8060260 - 02/23/08 12:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.
You speak as though moving towards social justice and equality is immature and as though there is something more mature and advanced than that (perhaps passivity?)?
You're right, I do see it as immature and I already stated why. Go back and read it.
Okay, I went back but couldn't find anything. I saw this:
Quote:
I disagree. IMO as long as anyone identifies with any group they become a pawn in a cultural drama, either being oppressed or an oppressor. There is much more freedom to be had in identifying with yourself alone.
But that's not talking about social justice.
So please explain again why you see it as immature.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8060287 - 02/23/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Same thing applies to social justice.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
I just think it is dumb to identify yourself by your skin color or sexual orientation.
Dumb or not, a lot of people do it. White heterosexual males (WHM) are generally considered the norm. Think about it...when is it necessary for WHM to qualify their skin color or sexual orientation? Other skin colors and orientations are qualified "black man" "gay man", but how often do white men refer to themselves as white men? Rarely, and I argue that's because race and orientation here are taken for granted.
Not so with minorities. Minority groups become acutely aware of their skin color and orientation through the socialization process. Through learning about their oppression throughout history, through institutionalized racism, through oppressive laws and policies, etc.
Their identity as their race/sexual orientation is thrust onto them. It's hard not to take up that identity. But I agree that it can be let go of.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8060307 - 02/23/08 12:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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How?
I'm not seeing clearly how identifying with a certain group has anything to do with social justice?
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8060332 - 02/23/08 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All culture.
One cannot expect justice in this world. If you get some then that's the breaks. Each of us is on our own whether we realize it or not. The value in realizing it is then one can act on that knowledge.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8060393 - 02/23/08 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I feel oppressed and discriminated because I can not apply for welfare, medicaid or scholarships or Government loans because I am a white male.
Bullshit. You weren't granted Medicaid because you're not poor enough. You weren't granted scholarships because you either were qualified for merit awards or weren't poor enough for need-based aid. The student loans, you must have fucked up somehow because I am certainly not low-income and was eligible for student loans.
It has nothing to do with you being white.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: Redstorm]
#8060428 - 02/23/08 01:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: Reason for deleting?
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Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.
God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.
Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chemy]
#8060462 - 02/23/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Did you research what qualifies you for being eligible b/c I'm pretty sure it says nothing about skin pigmentation.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8060556 - 02/23/08 01:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
All culture.
One cannot expect justice in this world. If you get some then that's the breaks. Each of us is on our own whether we realize it or not. The value in realizing it is then one can act on that knowledge.
Working for social justice doesn't necessitate EXPECTING justice. It doesn't mean holding justice up as an ideal and standard. It just means working towards it. There may never be justice in our world. But that's okay. That doesn't mean that we can't work towards it.
If no one ever worked toward justice, then our world as we know it would be drastically different. Slavery, oligarchs, so much more destitution.
We're always on our own, but we live together. The value in realizing this is that one can then work for balance, justice, and social harmony.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8060712 - 02/23/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That doesn't mean that we can't work towards it.
Don't let me stop you. It's a great diversion at the least.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8061134 - 02/23/08 04:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Don't let me stop you. It's a great diversion at the least.
 I wasn't planning on it. A diversion though? Diversion from what?
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8061147 - 02/23/08 04:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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From all the other things one can do with a life.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8061192 - 02/23/08 04:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
From all the other things one can do with a life.
I mean, it's one thing one can do with a life, but I'm confused why you used the word diversion, because it suggests that there's some other more natural or proper course of life (it's defined as "1: the act or an instance of diverting from a course, activity, or use : deviation ") that such work is diverting from...
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8061215 - 02/23/08 04:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Everything is a diversion from something else.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8061873 - 02/23/08 06:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright fair enough.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
#8061947 - 02/23/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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For me personally it's a distraction I don't feel I can afford. While social action can have effect in the short run I don't believe it does in the long run and there is no way to be sure ones attempts will have the desired result.
I'm not concerned with the outcome of the human race anymore. I'm more interested in eternity whatever that is.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
#8062641 - 02/23/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think "[X] Pride" is vital from a pedagogical standpoint. I've heard so many white people scoff at racial pride, and straight people scoff at gay pride, but the fact is that these ideas are important to young people whose egos are still forming. If there was no one there to tell a gay or black teenager that it's ok for them to be proud of who they are, there are a lot of places in this country (with racist and/or homophobic majorities) where they would grow up with the ingrained idea that they are inferior because of their inherent difference. Pride movements are there to show the young'uns that their ancestors and forebears were not, in fact, wastes of human life, but included important and accomplished people. Basically, I agree with NN that it's an important step for an oppressed group in escaping a subordinate position.
There are always the haters (I'm comfortable calling them that here) who demand "What about WHITE pride?" or "STRAIGHT pride?" These people truly seem to be missing the point that we live in a white-dominated and homophobic society. They also seem to ignore that pride movements are generally peaceful, making them more desirable than other forms of social backlash.
There are always people who take it too far, but that does not invalidate the whole.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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