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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc.
    #8055118 - 02/22/08 03:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't get it. I take pride in my accomplishments, but not the facts of my birth nor genetic heritage.

My ancestors migrated to Northern Europe? Damn, that makes me feel proud. Almost as if I had the slightest thing to do with it.

My eyes are hazel and my hair is brown. That just makes me shiver with joy.

I enjoy getting physical with females. Wow! How did I manage that? Did I invent sex or something? Was I the first to discover and unlock its secrets?


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OfflineMitchnast
Toadmonger
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Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 8,656
Loc: Okanagan Flag
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Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8055147 - 02/22/08 03:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

people are inherently lazy, they prefer to seek kinship among GRANTED traits instead of earned ones.

Alot of lazy people of similar granted traits TOGETHER then begins to further this lazy association by adopting each others faults as traits of the group, slowly weeding out redeemable character traits.

Suddenly they compete on a lazy level, and feel a pseudo-accomplishment of being the one who exemplifies the lazy culture most strongly.

this is where the PRIDE starts. It makes them more able to feel accomplished for embracing negative and selfish traits that are taking over their lazy society.

This type of human behavior is previlant in ALL identifiable groups of granted-trait association. It tends to be ENHANCED when the traits are obvious identifiers.

So a closed black society is likely to focus on behaviors that set it apart from open OR white society. Subsequently alienating non-blacks, white-friendly blacks, and anyone who doesn't show an exaggerated personality of pride and prejudice.

The same is said for WHITE societies, the culturally elite, Religious groups, and sexual orientations, both strait AND gay.

Once a community has established a simple and obvious identifier has been accepted, they start focusing on it and begin to behave rebelliously to common and outside traits of non-members.

this rapidly degrades the quality of the character of the individual, Whole GROUPS of people lose their individuality in a lazy group mentality, feeling oppressed by whatever society their minority is immersed in, and making their group more tight-knit by rejecting the greater society with exaggerated negative behavior.

which, they become proud of,

racial lazy-association tends to result in gangs.

Sexual-oriented lazy-association tends to result in promiscuity.

Faith-oriented tends to lead to Prosyletization.

These become the GOALS of proud society, EVENTUALLY they start putting effort into their degradation by absorbing aligning or supporting groups and vilifying others.

were pathetic.


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InvisiblePyroBurns
душа кофе


Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #8055273 - 02/22/08 05:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think the point of most of these pride groups is to show they are not ashamed of who they are.

The blacks wanted to stand up and show the white oppressors that they didn't buy into their bullshit. The don't believe they are inferior.

Same with gays. And women.

Though some people take it too far and become racist or militant or whatever.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: PyroBurns]
    #8056033 - 02/22/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.

Mitchnast, you're full of shit. People tend to gravitate towards others who share similar experiences and perceptions of the world. In a society in which people are marginalized for having particular traits, i.e. thier skin colour or sexual orientation, it is only natural for people who share the experience of that marginalization to come together and resist thier subordination. Where the fuck does laziness come into the equation?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8056221 - 02/22/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Mitchnast, you're full of shit.

This is FLAMING girlfriend.:nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8056239 - 02/22/08 12:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)


Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.


I disagree. IMO as long as anyone identifies with any group they become a pawn in a cultural drama, either being oppressed or an oppressor. There is much more freedom to be had in identifying with yourself alone.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
    #8056321 - 02/22/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Pride is an important step in the process of an oppressed group transcending thier subordinate position. Like Pyro said, it's about refusing to continue being ashamed of belonging to a socially marginalized group.


I disagree. IMO as long as anyone identifies with any group they become a pawn in a cultural drama, either being oppressed or an oppressor. There is much more freedom to be had in identifying with yourself alone.




Hells yeah.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
    #8056485 - 02/22/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's not flaming if you follow it up with reasons! :tongue:

And as much as I agree that identity politics are limited, and sometimes go no further than creating a comfortable in-group on the periphery of the dominant culture, that doesn't completely invalidate it. One of the first steps to deconstructing the existence of marginalized identity groups is becoming conscious of one's place in the group and subverting the negative stereotypes. Reclaiming terms like 'queer', 'nigger', or 'cunt'are a part of this. Like I said, it's a baby step, it's not an end in and of itself (although many people act as though it is.)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8056548 - 02/22/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
It's not flaming if you follow it up with reasons! :tongue:

And as much as I agree that identity politics are limited, and sometimes go no further than creating a comfortable in-group on the periphery of the dominant culture, that doesn't completely invalidate it. One of the first steps to deconstructing the existence of marginalized identity groups is becoming conscious of one's place in the group and subverting the negative stereotypes. Reclaiming terms like 'queer', 'nigger', or 'cunt'are a part of this. Like I said, it's a baby step, it's not an end in and of itself (although many people act as though it is.)




Sorry to tell  you but that was flaming as your comment was said about the poster rather than what he posted. Just the fact that you then gave reasons why his post was flawed does not excuse your behavior young lady.:nono: A bare bottom spanking may be in order if you don't shape up. (please don't shape up)

I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Icelander]
    #8056921 - 02/22/08 03:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I can agree that there may be a time in someones life when they need to take these steps on the learning path. I certainly did. But the sooner over it the better.




You speak as though moving towards social justice and equality is immature and as though there is something more mature and advanced than that (perhaps passivity?)?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
    #8056948 - 02/22/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?

I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.


--------------------


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Invisiblebradmassive
KingOfTheHill


Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 866
Loc: VA
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8056957 - 02/22/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Its all bullshit. Get over it.


--------------------
"In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson

"Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8056991 - 02/22/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?

I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.




Social justice relates to what I think Icelander was talking about.

Users of mushrooms and marijuana may be an oppressed group, but it's a totally different situation. You won't get denied a job or a car loan or housing unless you get drug tested. But how often do you get drug tested before receiving a car loan or a house? Racial minorities will get denied these things simply because of appearance.

Because of so many years of prejudice, racism is still ingrained in our culture. In order to bring balance to that, pride movements are useful as a tool.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineChemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: dblaney]
    #8057009 - 02/22/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: dblaney]
    #8057023 - 02/22/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, pride movements encourage delusion.
It is very easy to jump from one extreme to another... from a shy oppressed to an aggressive oppressor.
How can these movements be useful? Don't they function on the same idea as those who are racist? "Pride" implies a "better than you" state of mind. So does racism.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: Chemy]
    #8057034 - 02/22/08 03:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chemy said:
What would happen if I formed an organization called the European-American Pride center, NFP or INC. whatever.




You'd make some money. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8057042 - 02/22/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Fuck pride. It's silly self importance.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineChemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. *DELETED* [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8057069 - 02/22/08 03:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?



--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8057071 - 02/22/08 03:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Social justice is fine, but how does that relate to pride?

I want freedom for all mushroom takers and pot smokers. Am I proud that I occasionally dabble in such substances? The thought would never occur to me even though I am part of an oppressed group.




Because you're not part of an oppressed group. You choose to enjoy drugs that are illegal, but you are fully capable of hiding your use of them. It's pretty hard to hide being black. Also, the scope of 'oppression' you face as a stoner is pretty trivial compared to the oppression that, say, a black person in the deep south would have faced during Jim Crow... or even now.

You persistently refuse to consider the experience of people in positions significantly different from your own, and I find it really annoying. The whole "it's irrational to have views different from my own" thing is getting a little stale.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Gay Pride, Black Pride, etc. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8057105 - 02/22/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
No, pride movements encourage delusion.
It is very easy to jump from one extreme to another... from a shy oppressed to an aggressive oppressor.
How can these movements be useful? Don't they function on the same idea as those who are racist? "Pride" implies a "better than you" state of mind. So does racism.




Arrogance implies a better-than-thou state of mind. Pride does not necessarily = arrogance, and in this case, I think they are separate. These pride movements are about rejecting the cultural values of shame and guilt that seem to come naturally with certain races and sexual orientations. They're about telling everyone that it's okay to be black or gay.

Racism is about someone being better than someone else because of race. The pride movements (AFAIK) are about breaking down the stigma and taboos of minorities. Not about proving that gays or blacks are better than others.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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