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Offlineblackegg
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The Corporation
    #8054733 - 02/21/08 11:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Intro:
The Corporation is a 2003 Canadian documentary film critical of the modern-day corporation, considering it as a class of person and evaluating its behaviour towards society and the world at large as a psychologist might evaluate an ordinary person. This is explored through specific examples



1. What is a Corporation?
The Corporation has emerged to be today’s dominant institution, one that creates great
wealth but also great harms. This documentary examines the history of the corporation
and the role it plays in society and our everyday lives. They are artificial creations to
produce profit sometimes likened to an eagle, a whale, or a Frankenstein monster out of
control.






2. Birth
How the corporation came to be. Originally, corporations were set up to serve the public
good. Corporation lawyers gained rights through the US Supreme Court using the 14th
Amendment (set up to protect slaves) that gives them the rights of a person. In the last
century, the corporation is given more and more rights while people are increasingly
stripped of theirs.




3. A Legal “Person”
Having acquired rights of immortal persons, what kind of person is the corporation?
By law, the corporation can only consider the interests of their shareholders. It
is bound to put its bottom line before everything else, even the public good.


and on and on...they have 'em at yutube.

I'll post more later if it seems wanted by the wonderful *spurt*, supportive *splurtsplurt*, community here on this political forum.


Edited by blackegg (02/22/08 07:21 AM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8054797 - 02/21/08 11:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

copy paste from where you brought this film up before

Pretty much I think the answer to buisness abuse is to grant everyone (including legal entities such as corp's) the same freedoms.


:

I've seen "the corporation"

The question is, how can you isolate economic liberty from personal liberty?

To me, the movie simply stands for the contention that all should be equal. When a person wrongs you, you have redress in court.

Due to the regulations meant to protect us, so they're sold, many wrongs commited by corporations are hard to prosecute by the private individual due to restrictive laws that treat buisness differently.

In some cases these laws even set up huge government agencies meant to protect us... and then strip the individual of standing to pursue his own wrongs.

Your then beholden to the government to pursue your cause. See: FTC, EPA, and other fed and state institutions.

There is no one above coroption, but you can't do shit about a government beuracracy that doesn't care about you, while you can change buisness partners, change lawyers, and conduct your own affairs how you see fit.

IMO, giving people private rights and allowing all voluntary associations free of government molestation, seems to be the only way to allow for the maximum liberty.


You can change your contract... you can't change your law or government agency quite as easy... just ask the chinese, USSR, cuba, and others how well communism "for the people" is working out.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: The Corporation [Re: johnm214]
    #8054878 - 02/22/08 12:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, yes cut'n'paste from other doc thread.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The question is, how can you isolate economic liberty from personal liberty?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That is not the question.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can change your contract... you can't change your law or government agency quite as easy... just ask the chinese, USSR, cuba, and others how well communism "for the people" is working out.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wow. Slippery slope ftw.

When 99.021% of the companies you come in daily contact with are owned by .1% of the population... changing your contract won't be so damned relevant.

(Sorry, sorry.. I'm on this Gil Scott Heron kick.)


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but you can't do shit about a government bureaucracy that doesn't care about you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm naive enough to think organizing and voting can still change things.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8055010 - 02/22/08 01:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

evaluating its behaviour towards society and the world at large as a psychologist might evaluate an ordinary person




Fallacy alert.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: The Corporation [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8055117 - 02/22/08 03:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Did you know that...



Quote:

A fallacy is a component of an argument which, being demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, renders the argument invalid in whole.:tongue:




How can an incomplete sentence be a fallacy?
It's not stating anything to begin with.
Please be more specific.


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8055121 - 02/22/08 03:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8055256 - 02/22/08 05:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

> How can an incomplete sentence be a fallacy?

It isn't what you typed that he was referring, but the premise of the of program.

From the link provided above:

Quote:

Reification (also known as hypostatization or concretism) is a fallacy of ambiguity, when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it represented a concrete, real event or physical entity. In other words, it is the error of treating as a "real thing" something which is not one. When people describe nonbiological events (like a geyser) or social institutions (like government) as alive, they are committing a reification fallacy.




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Offlineblackegg
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Re: The Corporation [Re: Seuss]
    #8055296 - 02/22/08 06:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If you are implying that the premise of the film, to compare the modern corporation to an actual individual, isn't a useful analogy...from my straw house of knowledge I disagree.

Quote:

A corporation is a legal entity (technically, a juristic *person) which has a legal personality distinct from those of its members.

Stewart Kyd, the author of the first treatise on corporate law in English, defined a corporation as "a collection of many individuals united into one body, under a special denomination, having perpetual succession under an artificial form, and vested, by policy of the law, with the capacity of acting, in several respects, as an individual, particularly of taking and granting property, of contracting obligations...
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation




*The law itself makes the analogy.

I realize the word 'person' has a different meaning in legalese than in regular speech but I believe they both possess similarities concerning their standing in the eyes of the law.

Mainly I think it's just a clever way to discuss the history of corporations and their influence on society.

:grin:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8056304 - 02/22/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I just like to point out fallacies. :shrug: It makes me feel good about myself.

I'm currently downloading the movie, so I'll let you know what I think after I watch it.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: The Corporation [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8060503 - 02/23/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Offlineblackegg
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Re: The Corporation [Re: Luddite]
    #8063234 - 02/24/08 03:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sayyyy, thanks for that totally irrelevant link to a picture!:D

Surely your name is ironic?
Or is your computer handmade by a skilled craftsman?
(You probably get that quite a bit though, huh?):heartpump:
,
Blackegg


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8063773 - 02/24/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't think you could understand it.


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Invisibleelbisivni

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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8064608 - 02/24/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I thought it was going to outline what pronoun the word associated with in each language, a singular/plural us/them sort of a thing.. Which would have been somewhat interesting, but I read the article and looked at the translations and I don't understand the importance of any of it either.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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Re: The Corporation [Re: elbisivni]
    #8067822 - 02/25/08 07:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"eszopiclone."

hmpfth! I am the wise and mysterious Blackegg!
The only one here who understand how this mysterious
and wisdom soaked word relates to the discussion!
:royalrainbow:




Corporations are evil things run by people who cannot be held responsible for their actions.

PART 4


PART 5



My favorite...
PART 6


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: The Corporation [Re: blackegg]
    #8069114 - 02/25/08 04:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What a waste.


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Offlineblackegg
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Re: The Corporation [Re: Luddite]
    #8071052 - 02/26/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You can always try again.
:laugh:


--------------------
'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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