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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Exactly, its a mystery. That is the equivalent of looking into the mirror, seeing that we are experiencing reality, giving it a name, and then surmising that, since this pattern over here in our visual field looks pretty much the same as we do, then they must be having that experience as well.
Mystery.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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but maybe that complex analogy is simmilar to giving up and saying that the world is flat because you have no answer or good idea.
pre-columbus people really did believe in "global" flatness and had architected hierarchical cosmologies that reflected this.
I think we are not that far from consensually emerging from the flatworld-consciousness-ignorance, but it wil be disruptive to much status quo when we find the curve in mental space, especially as it has been under our noses so to speak all this time.
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haroldmeeks
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/08
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oh go build a sand castle bake a burrito and fly to jupiter in a trashcan
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backfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
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 FTW!!
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: MokshaIs]
#8068252 - 02/25/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said: couldn't we say that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of Reality? That it exists outside the matrix of mind, outside the domain of possible human experience? Perhaps in order to take form, something must exhibit a degree of consciousness.
It is rediculous to deny the possibility of whether or not consciousness exists outside the brain and which is not recognizable by our perception. Leaning to the belief that we are the most intelligent species in the universe, and labelling other possibilities as mumbo jumbo is typical human arrogance and egoism.
The truth is we could never know with this mind and in this physical reality an intelligence that exists beyond our perception. If a cell were conscious, how could it perceive the workings of its greater body? Similarily to a cell we may exist in the microcosm of a macrocosmic body. But we could never form into thought a concept of the macrocosm... believe nothing and wonder the possibilities without judgement. We have the ability to wonder, why suppress it with human thought and conditioning? Is there not a knowledge and understanding that is not of human creation and language? I susptect many of us have lost touch of this knowledge through "them" bringing something into "us", and making us believe there exists nothing outside of conceptual reality.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Subtract the self from self-consciousness, then the conscious states between animals, plants and 'otherthings' may become fluent, but sadly not better identifiable
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent

Registered: 11/29/07
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#8068554 - 02/25/08 01:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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the consensual reality is not Reality, not truth. The mind knows not of Truth, yet Truth knows the mind yo fo sho.
does a pen exhibit consciousness? ... o sure it does, just look at it, all consciousnessed up...whoa...
I guess I feel that consciousness is innate to existence itself.
so the mind can't graps the totality, but, perhaps pure awareness, pure consciousness can. so um, yea, go consciousness!
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: MokshaIs]
#8068885 - 02/25/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said: I guess I feel that consciousness is innate to existence itself.
We know no existence without consciousness. No experience of consciousness, no way to know existence.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 476
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
MokshaIs said: I guess I feel that consciousness is innate to existence itself.
We know no existence without consciousness. No experience of consciousness, no way to know existence.
existence still IS even if we don't "know" it. so do some of you think that if all animals with brains on this planet ceased to exist, so would consciousness? does the tree not have a "knowing" of reality just as valid and "real" as ours?
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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The problem with the question is that we are trying to find out what that something means to our lives, through the very thing we experience that life, as life.
Conciousness is then a term that will only be understood, when we can experience where conciosness lacks.
Ie/ Are plants unconcious, if so, name the differences and bang there is your deffintion.
I think conciosness is the potential to relate and interact. I think of conciousness as a void, where everything can exist. But the only thing which can harbour everything, would be pure void, lack of thing or no-thing. It is because of this that i say it is hard to point out conciousness. It is everywhere. It is us. IT is, It is, it IS.
to experience what i think conciousness is - look into someones eyes and forget about everything you know about them, anything you will know about them and experience them with NO-mind, NO-thing in mind. Literally, say i want to experience them with NOthing in mind.
Ive experienced this and i have to say you dont look at anything and say oh thats conciousness...because a the moment you experience it, It becomes everything. Nothing else exists.
Give it a shot, its pretty fun.
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 476
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#8070957 - 02/26/08 12:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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“All things, oh priests, are on fire . . . The eye is on fire; forms are on fire; eye-consciousness is on fire; impressions received by the eye are on fire.”
-buddha
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: MokshaIs]
#8071140 - 02/26/08 01:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said: “All things, oh priests, are on fire . . . The eye is on fire; forms are on fire; eye-consciousness is on fire; impressions received by the eye are on fire.”
-buddha
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: MokshaIs]
#8071274 - 02/26/08 02:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said: existence still IS even if we don't "know" it. so do some of you think that if all animals with brains on this planet ceased to exist, so would consciousness? does the tree not have a "knowing" of reality just as valid and "real" as ours?
Who knows. All we do know is that we are conscious and this is why we have an experience of reality. It is impossible to conclude more than this, really. We are immersed within a mystery.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
We are immersed within a mystery.
Wrapped in a toasted whole-wheat fajita...
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 476
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
We are immersed within a mystery.
Wrapped in a toasted whole-wheat fajita...
and IT is dandy
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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ChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
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If you strip down all our experiences of the biological tricks our brain enjoys playing on us then I think you would have raw consciousness. Meditation is the only way to no for sure (or the closest we can come).
I need to post i here more. I'm a frequent lurker, but it feels good to step out of the shadows.
Edited by ChiefGreenLeaf (02/26/08 03:38 PM)
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent

Registered: 11/29/07
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yo fo sho...
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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marc.b.allard
Stranger

Registered: 02/24/08
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awareness of the soul. aware that we posses something that mother nature alone could not create, and has no purpose in evolution.
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Quote:
marc.b.allard said: awareness of the soul. aware that we posses something that mother nature alone could not create, and has no purpose in evolution.

Consciousness has no purpose in evolution?
Seems to me it'd be a pretty big leg-up. I don't see monkeys plowing fields with John Deeres.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I don't see monkeys plowing fields with John Deeres.
What about deer plowing the fields with...
Oh, nevermind!
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