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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Aboriginal Dreamtime
    #8046116 - 02/20/08 04:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046125 - 02/20/08 04:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They also believe we are in the "dreamtime" now.
What ever we dream the future will bring kind of thing. If you think about it, everything we create has been dreamed, we're surrounded by our dreams manifested into matter.
Hence the mass mind control attempts by our governments.


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dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.


Edited by JonnyDeformed (02/20/08 04:51 AM)


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8046186 - 02/20/08 06:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They also see the snakes of creation in their dreamtime, despite any Ayahausca (the rainbow snake).

But dreamtime is no protection from guns and imported criminals.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8046213 - 02/20/08 06:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'suppose that's the dream, eh?


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046253 - 02/20/08 07:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Don't worry...
Dreamtime is set to catch up with the fuckin white man.
Ass whoopin understatement.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046495 - 02/20/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.




I have always wondered this myself. My guess is that they misinterpreted some of their experiences and gave them more import than they actually had. Much like people do nowadays.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineRedRainDrop
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8047543 - 02/20/08 02:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe they were tripping too hard to fight back... lmfao.


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Fact: Saving the environment can take centuries
A blow job can take up to 5 minutes.
"When was the last time you heard green peace talk about the immense pleasure you get when you put your penis in someone Else's mouth? " -jonlajoie


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: RedRainDrop]
    #8047665 - 02/20/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe like us, they are totally expendable.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8048656 - 02/20/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.




Since when did anybody claim the dreaming gave them superpowers? What are you trying to prove? If you're trying to suggest that they were "wrong" about thier worldview because they didn't succeed in fending off a much more technologically advanced colonial force that's just silly. It's a fallacious argument as well, as you are falsely correlating two things that do not have any thing to do with each other.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8049409 - 02/20/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Which part of my statement is inaccurate? Please point it out. The rules of the game are you must use what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

Ready? Begin.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8049720 - 02/20/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Your mind makes it real...


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8049798 - 02/20/08 10:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nothing in your original post is innacurate. You have correlated two unrelated things. One must assume you did this to prove a point of some kind.

We have the dreaming, a culturally specific spirit world. It is a collected mythology, an active, imaginative conception of reality developed and shared within the culture itself. It's something shared internally, to structure and give meaning to the perceptions and experiences of the members of the group.

And then we have the historical event of the colonization of Australia and the genocide of the Aborigine people.

This historical event of colonization has no relationship whatsoever to the worldview of the colonized people. It doesn't matter what they believed or experienced, as that would not have had any effect on the worldview of the colonizers, who would continue to behave as they did regardless.
The Aborigines would have had no way of knowing anything about thier colonizers until they showed up.

So if there's absolutely no causal connection between Aborigine worldview and the historical event of colonization, what is the point or correlating the two?

Should we expect the dreaming to provide information about something utterly unprecedented, utterly foreign to the Aborigines? If the dreaming fails to provide such information, does it reflect poorly on it's existence or cultural validity?

Now play by my rules and answer this question:

What's your point?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8049936 - 02/20/08 11:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing in your original post is innacurate.



Yay me! :monkeydance:

In the book "Wizard of the Upper Amazon", the author (del Rios?), a self-described shaman in his own right, told how he lived with a primitive Amazonian tribe for over a year after being kidnapped and his fellow rubber harvesters were killed. The elders would take ayahuasca to divine which tribe was going to attack them. They would work themselves into a frenzy and slaughter many innocents in the neighboring tribe who had no such was intentions.

Many folks believe the Hopi (and the Maya) could forsee the future, yet not the advent of the White Man. This makes no sense.

My point dear NN, is that shamanic journeying to the spirit world/dreamtime is 100% pure imagination. It may be important as cultural cement, but is useless as a source of real-world knowledge.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8050023 - 02/20/08 11:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It may be important as cultural cement, but is useless as a source of real-world knowledge.




As long as you can agree that it's important and valid as cultural cement, than we're not in direct conflict, anyway.

Although I'd argue it can be useful in terms of real world knowledge that the people are already familiar with. Mythology is a great place to store information about important cycles (say, weather, the migration of animals or the right time to harvest plant foods) and relevant skills and techniques. So yes, there is a real world relevance to shamanic and mythical traditions beyond just providing entertainment and social cohesion. Storing knowledge in interesting stories and rituals is a much more effective way to pass on important info than simply explaining the mechanics. People tend to remember things better that are engaging on a level beyond the utilitarian.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051508 - 02/21/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A man sat in the mud, wallowing in feces and dirt. The stink and offal made him sick, nauseas, disgusted.

Beside him, equally mired in this filth, was another man. Upon the second man's face is a blissful smile, and he speaks fluently of his adventures in a spiritual realm of flowers and beautiful sights and scents.

The first man scoffs. "fool! he doesn't even smell the shit he is sitting in! his blissful realm is all imaginary! how wise i am, to remain grounded in the filth i sit in! the smell of this shit is real, and the reality of its stink proves to me the superiority of my world view! "

but after a time the continued peace and bliss of the second man wears on him. The second man continues to smile, laugh and communicate with apparent enjoyment with beings the first man cannot even see.

So the first man takes a rock and bashes in the second mans skull. Looking down as the blood drains from the second mans skull, the first man gloats. "i knew it! my shit world was the real one after all! his dream world didn't save him from having his brains bashed in! "


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Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (02/21/08 11:46 AM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8051685 - 02/21/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8051715 - 02/21/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Please explain how a work of fiction has bearing on a real-world discussion. Would you care to wager that I can not come up with an equally moronic story to counter your position?


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051740 - 02/21/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The story points out how ridiculous it is to expect someone's spirit world to magically shield them from physical assault and that the fact that it didn't do so doesn't undermine the validity of the experience.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8051755 - 02/21/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The story points to Moonshoe's imagination and nothing else. If we are trying to uncover some truth behind a situation, facts are what is needed as much as possible, not hyperbole. :nono:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051845 - 02/21/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That wasn't hyperbole at all; it was exactly what your original post said but in convenient parable form. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (02/21/08 01:16 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8051926 - 02/21/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A post twice is long is hardly more 'convenient'. Nor is something totally different 'exactly the same'.

Your post is such nonsense that I will wager $1000 that not one of 5 strangers picked at random will consider them exactly the same.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051979 - 02/21/08 01:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps not 'exactly the same' but rather, strikingly similar.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8052047 - 02/21/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Nothing in your original post is innacurate.



Yay me! :monkeydance:

In the book "Wizard of the Upper Amazon", the author (del Rios?), a self-described shaman in his own right, told how he lived with a primitive Amazonian tribe for over a year after being kidnapped and his fellow rubber harvesters were killed. The elders would take ayahuasca to divine which tribe was going to attack them. They would work themselves into a frenzy and slaughter many innocents in the neighboring tribe who had no such was intentions.





Wizard of the Upper Amazon was admitted to be imaginative fiction by it's author. It is a poor example of anthropology, and it's description of the practices of the Amazonian tribes is inaccurate. You criticised Moonshoe for citing fiction, but you are doing the same.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8052061 - 02/21/08 02:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Would you care to wager that I can not come up with an equally moronic story to counter your position?




You are flaming. That is not allowed...no no! Bad!


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8052403 - 02/21/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
A post twice is long is hardly more 'convenient'. Nor is something totally different 'exactly the same'.




Well, it was certainly more entertaining and imaginative. :lol:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (02/21/08 03:41 PM)


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8052461 - 02/21/08 03:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It was perfect to prove the point, imo.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8053271 - 02/21/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Wizard of the Upper Amazon was admitted to be imaginative fiction by it's author. It is a poor example of anthropology, and it's description of the practices of the Amazonian tribes is inaccurate. You criticised Moonshoe for citing fiction, but you are doing the same.





At the time I read the book, the author claimed it to be autobigraphical.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8053277 - 02/21/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps you should try getting you anthropological information from peer reviewed journals. :shrug:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8053279 - 02/21/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:

Would you care to wager that I can not come up with an equally moronic story to counter your position?




You are flaming. That is not allowed...no no! Bad!




Calling a story about two guys living in feces, moronic, is not flaming. I said nothing against the poster.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8053296 - 02/21/08 07:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So, YOU took a book that discusses telepathy as reality for fact?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8053345 - 02/21/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You know there is very little academic information on ayahuasca and that I was not trying to present a falsehood.

Yet you fail to apply your standards equally, such as to Moonshoe's story. :rolleyes: That is disingenuous.


The fact remains that ayahuasca journeying has yet to bring back demonstrable knowledge that was not learned from an ordinary reality source. At least no strong case for such has ever been made publicly.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8053537 - 02/21/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

There is actually a great deal of academic anthropological work done on ayahuasca and other psychedelics, as well as things like the dreaming. This stuff is interesting, of course scientists are studying it! I'd send you links to journal articles, but unfortunately you have to pay to use most of the sites. I have access through my school... JSTOR is an excellent source.

Also, my comment wasn't disingenuous because Moonshoe never claimed his parable came from a legitimate source. He made it up, and it struck me as funny.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8053661 - 02/21/08 08:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

harmine
Pronunciation: har′mēn
A central nervous system stimulant and potent monoamine oxidase inhibitor obtained from Peganum harmala (family Zygophyllaceae) and Banisteria caapi (family Malpighaceae); psychic effects resemble those of LSD, but sedative and depressive qualities may predominate over hallucinatory manifestations.

Synonym(s): banisterine, leucoharmine, telepathine

[G. harmala, harmal, fr. Ar. harmalah, + -ine]


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OfflinecoulterIV
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8053680 - 02/21/08 08:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
So, YOU took a book that discusses telepathy as reality for fact?






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BREATHE IN LOVE
BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS
(If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: coulterIV]
    #8053700 - 02/21/08 08:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Where are ya'll at??:boxerface:


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OfflinecoulterIV
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8053814 - 02/21/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
Where are ya'll at??:boxerface:




they are stuck in the machine unable to dream their way to the otherside.


--------------------
BREATHE IN LOVE
BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS
(If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: coulterIV]
    #8053886 - 02/21/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Tell them all it takes is a stack of blocks.  Preferably not a house of cards.  Something substantial now.
Less blocks the better.
I suspect ONE is best.
But Christ, Lucifer...
Yin.
Yang.
Fight it out and awake with a BANG!!
Telepathy??
Got me.
I was convinced.
I got minced.
Medicine.
Edison.
Seattle.
Battle.

I jumped in the fountain.  It was all seeds and weeds yes.
I climbed the mountain.  Looked down and saw a mess.
I felt connected up there...
To all you out there.
And you all were talking to me, those that care.
But then it turned ugly into a tranced evil stare.
The docs say I'm schizo
I say I know so
I say I know the plan
They pretend like the don't understand
The story.
Rory.
Rogers on ice when I was a kid.
I drank it like that I did.
Then it POPPED.
And it didn't stop.
Voices.
Are you real??
Talk to me.
:uptosomething:


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OfflineLion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8053904 - 02/21/08 09:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Are you real??
Talk to me.




--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8053978 - 02/21/08 09:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
The story points out how ridiculous it is to expect someone's spirit world to magically shield them from physical assault and that the fact that it didn't do so doesn't undermine the validity of the experience.




This conclusion was also reached by CC but I never understood that. If one can "see" then they can see and that's that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8053993 - 02/21/08 09:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Wizard of the Upper Amazon was admitted to be imaginative fiction by it's author. It is a poor example of anthropology, and it's description of the practices of the Amazonian tribes is inaccurate. You criticised Moonshoe for citing fiction, but you are doing the same.





At the time I read the book, the author claimed it to be autobigraphical.




True, the author was a liar.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8055240 - 02/22/08 05:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

When Castaneda discussed seeing he discussed perceiving the energetic condition of things, not seeing the future. He also never said that seeing could forestall things like invasions of barbarians, or save a whole culture from destruction and slavery. He did claim that it saved the members of his instructor's lineage. In the end CCs work is thoughtful entertainment. I think that Castaneda had some very relevant points to make on living that are highly practical...points that have had a profound effect on my life, but I think he may have liked to tell a few tall tales as well.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8056049 - 02/22/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

but I think he may have liked to tell a few tall tales as well.


That's what I'm sayin.

I still can't understand how all those old seers didn't see that those folk were about to kill their ass. If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8056531 - 02/22/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Even if they could foresee it, that would be no guarantee that they could effectively defend themselves against it. There's a big difference between knowing about something and being able to effect the material reality of it.

Would you say that the Jews who died in the millions during the holocaust were "a bunch of idiots", or how about the victims of the witch hunts, or maybe the soldiers in WW1?

I simply don't follow your reasoning. It seems that you are expecting something from shamanism that it can't (and doesn't promise to) offer. Shamanic questing doesn't turn people into invincible superheroes, nor does it claim to.


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8056574 - 02/22/08 01:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

While there are no guarantees, people using some solid common sense and forsight can often avoid trouble. The fact that the Jews in mass walked into those camps and didn't see the shit in the fan is no surprise to me. It could well happen here one day soon enough. But you know many Jews fled the country or went underground and even started a resistance movement. How do you account for their actions?

I expect a shaman to be a little bit smarter than the average sheep. If he isn't then he's really not someone I want going into the nether world to support me in my war against the evil spirits.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8056732 - 02/22/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Sure, people are definitly able to take foresight into account and plan ways of dealing with threats - such as Jews resisting the Nazi's, or just plain running. But that doesn't guarantee that they will win, and it doesn't make someone an idiot if their efforts prove insufficient, especially when they are up against an enemy that simply has much greater access to resources, and is utterly committed to decimating them.

Might I remind you that there was significant resistance to colonization pretty much everywhere?


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Yacqui Doodle Dandy [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8056869 - 02/22/08 03:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

A good friend of mine is a Yacqui descendant. He told me of how his (great?)grandfather's tribe was mostly wiped out and they were starving. The few remaining braves would ambush the Mexican soldados coming through narrow mountain passages and eat them.


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8056990 - 02/22/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.




They didn't according to Castaneda. The seers themselves separated into 8 man cells and scattered across North and South America, avoiding any contact with other cells. Maybe they could see well enough to know that seeing doesn't stop bullets.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Yacqui Doodle Dandy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8057006 - 02/22/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That kills 2 birds with one stone. Kill off the soldiers and get some good eating on the side. That might be a plan for stopping the Iraq war. We all band up and go to Iraq, ambush soldiers and eat them....don't forget the Heinz 57 and your chef's hat!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8058578 - 02/22/08 10:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:

If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.




They didn't according to Castaneda. The seers themselves separated into 8 man cells and scattered across North and South America, avoiding any contact with other cells. Maybe they could see well enough to know that seeing doesn't stop bullets.




I think DJ stated they died by the thousands. CC tends to contradict his statements at times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8058592 - 02/22/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Sure, people are definitly able to take foresight into account and plan ways of dealing with threats - such as Jews resisting the Nazi's, or just plain running. But that doesn't guarantee that they will win, and it doesn't make someone an idiot if their efforts prove insufficient, especially when they are up against an enemy that simply has much greater access to resources, and is utterly committed to decimating them.

Might I remind you that there was significant resistance to colonization pretty much everywhere?




After all the violence against them I wonder what they thought was going to happen in those camps? If I saw all the liberals in my town being harassed by the authorities I might just put on my pack and head for the hills. At least I would have some choice about how I died. I understand they were scared, but that's how the deer gets it in the headlights.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #9876131 - 02/27/09 11:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I understand they were scared, but that's how the deer gets it in the headlights.




Kind of like when an abductee meets an alien.


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