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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
#8055240 - 02/22/08 05:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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When Castaneda discussed seeing he discussed perceiving the energetic condition of things, not seeing the future. He also never said that seeing could forestall things like invasions of barbarians, or save a whole culture from destruction and slavery. He did claim that it saved the members of his instructor's lineage. In the end CCs work is thoughtful entertainment. I think that Castaneda had some very relevant points to make on living that are highly practical...points that have had a profound effect on my life, but I think he may have liked to tell a few tall tales as well.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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but I think he may have liked to tell a few tall tales as well.
That's what I'm sayin.
I still can't understand how all those old seers didn't see that those folk were about to kill their ass. If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
#8056531 - 02/22/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Even if they could foresee it, that would be no guarantee that they could effectively defend themselves against it. There's a big difference between knowing about something and being able to effect the material reality of it.
Would you say that the Jews who died in the millions during the holocaust were "a bunch of idiots", or how about the victims of the witch hunts, or maybe the soldiers in WW1?
I simply don't follow your reasoning. It seems that you are expecting something from shamanism that it can't (and doesn't promise to) offer. Shamanic questing doesn't turn people into invincible superheroes, nor does it claim to.
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Icelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8056574 - 02/22/08 01:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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While there are no guarantees, people using some solid common sense and forsight can often avoid trouble. The fact that the Jews in mass walked into those camps and didn't see the shit in the fan is no surprise to me. It could well happen here one day soon enough. But you know many Jews fled the country or went underground and even started a resistance movement. How do you account for their actions?
I expect a shaman to be a little bit smarter than the average sheep. If he isn't then he's really not someone I want going into the nether world to support me in my war against the evil spirits.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
#8056732 - 02/22/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure, people are definitly able to take foresight into account and plan ways of dealing with threats - such as Jews resisting the Nazi's, or just plain running. But that doesn't guarantee that they will win, and it doesn't make someone an idiot if their efforts prove insufficient, especially when they are up against an enemy that simply has much greater access to resources, and is utterly committed to decimating them.
Might I remind you that there was significant resistance to colonization pretty much everywhere?
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OrgoneConclusion
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A good friend of mine is a Yacqui descendant. He told me of how his (great?)grandfather's tribe was mostly wiped out and they were starving. The few remaining braves would ambush the Mexican soldados coming through narrow mountain passages and eat them.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
#8056990 - 02/22/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.
They didn't according to Castaneda. The seers themselves separated into 8 man cells and scattered across North and South America, avoiding any contact with other cells. Maybe they could see well enough to know that seeing doesn't stop bullets.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
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That kills 2 birds with one stone. Kill off the soldiers and get some good eating on the side. That might be a plan for stopping the Iraq war. We all band up and go to Iraq, ambush soldiers and eat them....don't forget the Heinz 57 and your chef's hat!
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
If they died by the thousands then they were a bunch of idiots.
They didn't according to Castaneda. The seers themselves separated into 8 man cells and scattered across North and South America, avoiding any contact with other cells. Maybe they could see well enough to know that seeing doesn't stop bullets.
I think DJ stated they died by the thousands. CC tends to contradict his statements at times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8058592 - 02/22/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Sure, people are definitly able to take foresight into account and plan ways of dealing with threats - such as Jews resisting the Nazi's, or just plain running. But that doesn't guarantee that they will win, and it doesn't make someone an idiot if their efforts prove insufficient, especially when they are up against an enemy that simply has much greater access to resources, and is utterly committed to decimating them.
Might I remind you that there was significant resistance to colonization pretty much everywhere?
After all the violence against them I wonder what they thought was going to happen in those camps? If I saw all the liberals in my town being harassed by the authorities I might just put on my pack and head for the hills. At least I would have some choice about how I died. I understand they were scared, but that's how the deer gets it in the headlights.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
#9876131 - 02/27/09 11:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I understand they were scared, but that's how the deer gets it in the headlights.
Kind of like when an abductee meets an alien.
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