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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Aboriginal Dreamtime
    #8046116 - 02/20/08 04:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046125 - 02/20/08 04:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They also believe we are in the "dreamtime" now.
What ever we dream the future will bring kind of thing. If you think about it, everything we create has been dreamed, we're surrounded by our dreams manifested into matter.
Hence the mass mind control attempts by our governments.


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dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.

Edited by JonnyDeformed (02/20/08 04:51 AM)

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #8046186 - 02/20/08 06:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They also see the snakes of creation in their dreamtime, despite any Ayahausca (the rainbow snake).

But dreamtime is no protection from guns and imported criminals.


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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8046213 - 02/20/08 06:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'suppose that's the dream, eh?

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046253 - 02/20/08 07:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Don't worry...
Dreamtime is set to catch up with the fuckin white man.
Ass whoopin understatement.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046495 - 02/20/08 09:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.




I have always wondered this myself. My guess is that they misinterpreted some of their experiences and gave them more import than they actually had. Much like people do nowadays.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRedRainDrop
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Icelander]
    #8047543 - 02/20/08 02:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe they were tripping too hard to fight back... lmfao.


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Fact: Saving the environment can take centuries
A blow job can take up to 5 minutes.
"When was the last time you heard green peace talk about the immense pleasure you get when you put your penis in someone Else's mouth? " -jonlajoie

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: RedRainDrop]
    #8047665 - 02/20/08 02:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe like us, they are totally expendable.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8048656 - 02/20/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It is a place native Austrailians go in the spirit world to learn of creation, the beginning of time, understanding of natural cycles where the good hunting is and all things spiritual and physical

except

how to avoid getting their asses kicked by the White Man.




Since when did anybody claim the dreaming gave them superpowers? What are you trying to prove? If you're trying to suggest that they were "wrong" about thier worldview because they didn't succeed in fending off a much more technologically advanced colonial force that's just silly. It's a fallacious argument as well, as you are falsely correlating two things that do not have any thing to do with each other.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8049409 - 02/20/08 09:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Which part of my statement is inaccurate? Please point it out. The rules of the game are you must use what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

Ready? Begin.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8049720 - 02/20/08 10:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Your mind makes it real...


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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8049798 - 02/20/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing in your original post is innacurate. You have correlated two unrelated things. One must assume you did this to prove a point of some kind.

We have the dreaming, a culturally specific spirit world. It is a collected mythology, an active, imaginative conception of reality developed and shared within the culture itself. It's something shared internally, to structure and give meaning to the perceptions and experiences of the members of the group.

And then we have the historical event of the colonization of Australia and the genocide of the Aborigine people.

This historical event of colonization has no relationship whatsoever to the worldview of the colonized people. It doesn't matter what they believed or experienced, as that would not have had any effect on the worldview of the colonizers, who would continue to behave as they did regardless.
The Aborigines would have had no way of knowing anything about thier colonizers until they showed up.

So if there's absolutely no causal connection between Aborigine worldview and the historical event of colonization, what is the point or correlating the two?

Should we expect the dreaming to provide information about something utterly unprecedented, utterly foreign to the Aborigines? If the dreaming fails to provide such information, does it reflect poorly on it's existence or cultural validity?

Now play by my rules and answer this question:

What's your point?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8049936 - 02/20/08 11:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nothing in your original post is innacurate.



Yay me! :monkeydance:

In the book "Wizard of the Upper Amazon", the author (del Rios?), a self-described shaman in his own right, told how he lived with a primitive Amazonian tribe for over a year after being kidnapped and his fellow rubber harvesters were killed. The elders would take ayahuasca to divine which tribe was going to attack them. They would work themselves into a frenzy and slaughter many innocents in the neighboring tribe who had no such was intentions.

Many folks believe the Hopi (and the Maya) could forsee the future, yet not the advent of the White Man. This makes no sense.

My point dear NN, is that shamanic journeying to the spirit world/dreamtime is 100% pure imagination. It may be important as cultural cement, but is useless as a source of real-world knowledge.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8050023 - 02/20/08 11:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It may be important as cultural cement, but is useless as a source of real-world knowledge.




As long as you can agree that it's important and valid as cultural cement, than we're not in direct conflict, anyway.

Although I'd argue it can be useful in terms of real world knowledge that the people are already familiar with. Mythology is a great place to store information about important cycles (say, weather, the migration of animals or the right time to harvest plant foods) and relevant skills and techniques. So yes, there is a real world relevance to shamanic and mythical traditions beyond just providing entertainment and social cohesion. Storing knowledge in interesting stories and rituals is a much more effective way to pass on important info than simply explaining the mechanics. People tend to remember things better that are engaging on a level beyond the utilitarian.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051508 - 02/21/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A man sat in the mud, wallowing in feces and dirt. The stink and offal made him sick, nauseas, disgusted.

Beside him, equally mired in this filth, was another man. Upon the second man's face is a blissful smile, and he speaks fluently of his adventures in a spiritual realm of flowers and beautiful sights and scents.

The first man scoffs. "fool! he doesn't even smell the shit he is sitting in! his blissful realm is all imaginary! how wise i am, to remain grounded in the filth i sit in! the smell of this shit is real, and the reality of its stink proves to me the superiority of my world view! "

but after a time the continued peace and bliss of the second man wears on him. The second man continues to smile, laugh and communicate with apparent enjoyment with beings the first man cannot even see.

So the first man takes a rock and bashes in the second mans skull. Looking down as the blood drains from the second mans skull, the first man gloats. "i knew it! my shit world was the real one after all! his dream world didn't save him from having his brains bashed in! "


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Everything I post is fiction.

Edited by Moonshoe (02/21/08 11:46 AM)

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8051685 - 02/21/08 12:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: Moonshoe]
    #8051715 - 02/21/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Please explain how a work of fiction has bearing on a real-world discussion. Would you care to wager that I can not come up with an equally moronic story to counter your position?


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051740 - 02/21/08 12:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The story points out how ridiculous it is to expect someone's spirit world to magically shield them from physical assault and that the fact that it didn't do so doesn't undermine the validity of the experience.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8051755 - 02/21/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The story points to Moonshoe's imagination and nothing else. If we are trying to uncover some truth behind a situation, facts are what is needed as much as possible, not hyperbole. :nono:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8051845 - 02/21/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That wasn't hyperbole at all; it was exactly what your original post said but in convenient parable form. :rolleyes:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (02/21/08 01:16 PM)

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