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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Differing subjective experiences
    #8044787 - 02/19/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

When others have the same objective experience as you, but a different subjective experience, the likely conclusion is:

A. The others are all too spiritually immature to grasp the fundamental nature of the experience as you do.

B. They had the same experience as you, but blocked it out because it didn't mesh with their previous world view.

C. Their motivation prior to the experience was impure.

D. Everyone has adopted different cultural filters and all subjective experiences are equally valid (or equally invalid, if you will).


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/19/08 09:17 PM)


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8044930 - 02/19/08 09:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Life is no multiple choice quiz.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8044963 - 02/19/08 09:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Differences in experiences come from the differing internal projections of: 
perception, focus, attitude, mood, beliefs, opinion, specific prior experiences (conditioning), and current understanding....

N' prolly~ even more stuff than both of us have mentioned is conditional to one's perception of experience....
That is why there is: your side, my side, and the truth....    :grin:


>^;;^<


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8045078 - 02/19/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Is it to late to change my answer to "A".....?

It would make it much more exciting....!    :lol:


>^;;^<


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: objective what? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8045972 - 02/20/08 01:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What's objective experience?


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046261 - 02/20/08 07:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I bet the same person could have the same experience twice and would come out of it with something different.

So obviously two different people will come out with two different views. Doesn't make either right or wrong. Just means they are different.

Why should everyone think the same? How boring would this board be if that were the case?

I mean seriously on some of the more ambiguous questions (existence of God and such) when we finally figure out who's right do you really think we are gonna care about being right?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #8046486 - 02/20/08 09:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Life is no multiple choice quiz.




If you can't guess then I'll help you out. The answer is D.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8046540 - 02/20/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Your idea of what an objective experience is is subjective.

Music is DEFINATLEY objective. I can accuratley convey using math EXACTLY what is going on with the sounds; The physical reverberations of sound can be measured and labeled in various ways.

However, the experience of listening to music is subjective. By this logic, if someone likes Fleetwood Mac, then wouldn't it be a fact that everyone should like fleetwood mac. I mean, the music can be measured, so the reaction should be able to measured...is that what you are trying to say?

A premise for what your definition of an objective experience would be helpful as well.

You are a thinker who makes other thinkers think, I think you very much for that.:)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: mushbaby]
    #8046895 - 02/20/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I bet the same person could have the same experience twice and would come out of it with something different.





I only had sex once. While very exciting, I saw no need to repeat the experience as I knew how 'the story' would end.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: Icelander]
    #8046904 - 02/20/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Life is no multiple choice quiz.




If you can't guess then I'll help you out. The answer is D.




Spoiler! :razz: :mad:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #8046936 - 02/20/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Objective is that which is physically happening stripped of any meaning. It is that which can be observed by others and agreed upon. If a million people eat mushrooms all sane people will agree they are eating mushrooms, what happens to them after that may be objective or subjective.

On a large enough dosage, ALL will have dilated pupils. Again this is objective. The internal states may have some overlap among people, but by and large are subjective meaning the experience is being interpreted uniquely by the individual.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047030 - 02/20/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You need a conciousness to even consider objectivity, so therfore your current definition of objectivity is steeped in the meaning it has already been given, making it subjective.

Do you think the concept of objectivity has a particular and specific neurological arrangement that would be identical between person to person, thus using objects (the neurons) to explain (objectify) the objective experience (the neurological cluster that correlates directly to what objectivity is)

So in order to be utterly logical of what objectivity is, we need to study the neurology behind it, as any logical reductionist knows anything and everything is the result of these neurons firing off. Therefore, words are really useless for sorting this kind of stuff out. We need to look at the objective neurons BEHIND the words to REALLY understand this stuff.


--------------------

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #8047051 - 02/20/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You need a conciousness to even consider objectivity




I think I have one stored away in the attic. Hold on, let me see...

*Sound of footsteps, a door creaking, clumping on the stairs and boxes being rifled*


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047069 - 02/20/08 12:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Dudeman, You are the man, dude!

No hard feelings if I ever get wicked with my words?

YOUR words make me feel like how Little Pete and Artie (the strongest man in the world!) must have felt when they tried to beat up the atlantic ocean.


--------------------

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #8047096 - 02/20/08 12:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

On the one hand I sort of grok what you are trying to express, on the other hand we can go so far afield into reductionism that no communication is possible. I don't see the latter as being very utilitarian.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047141 - 02/20/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So can ultilitarian be looked at as a combination of personal preference and whatever helps you "progress"?

There really would be no progression if we use neurological scans to talk about neurological scans, methinks. An example of useless logical redundancy?

If so, same page my friend--We may just use "different languages" to express similar ideas.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047188 - 02/20/08 12:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
On the one hand I sort of grok what you are trying to express, on the other hand we can go so far afield into reductionism that no communication is possible. I don't see the latter as being very utilitarian.




:wtf:

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
So can ultilitarian be looked at as a combination of personal preference and whatever helps you "progress"?




No.


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047197 - 02/20/08 12:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I bet the same person could have the same experience twice and would come out of it with something different.





I only had sex once. While very exciting, I saw no need to repeat the experience as I knew how 'the story' would end.




I wasn't speaking of sex but since you brought it up.  You're right.  Every experience you ever have would be exactly the same.  You should never bother doing it again.  :rolleyes:

It's not always the end result that matters.  It's the journey to the end that  gives us character.  Slightly off topic I know.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: mushbaby]
    #8047207 - 02/20/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

How many times should one climb Mt. Everest before moving on to something new?


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047211 - 02/20/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

How many different ways are there to climb Mt. Everest?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: mushbaby]
    #8047227 - 02/20/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, there is the 'put one foot in front of the other' method...


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047237 - 02/20/08 01:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Try the backdoor this time.
Crown down.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8047239 - 02/20/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
So can ultilitarian be looked at as a combination of personal preference and whatever helps you "progress"?




No.




And why not sir, :poshdance:?

Differentiate from group or society to individualistic?

I just got high, so maybe I'll make more sense;-)

All in good fun, right?


--------------------

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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Differing subjective experiences [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8047240 - 02/20/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In keeping with your example each different way will offer a different viewpoint. So even climbing two or three times doesn't mean you've seen all there is to see.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: objective what? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8050392 - 02/21/08 02:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

...a confused concept made by those wanting to obtain ideological power over others.
Objective experience is invented in order to keep their system as the norm, that is to sustain power.

But do you want to go there? No, keep stacking the cards,
restrict your minds, hold your giggles and farts so nothing knocks the model over.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: objective what? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8050995 - 02/21/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)






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Offlineblackegg
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Re: objective what? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #8051077 - 02/21/08 09:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

what is nurture and nature?

:hangover:


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'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison


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