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NlightNd1
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Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity
#8043989 - 02/19/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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How many other people believe that LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin mushrooms are revealing God when you experience the infinity sensation? It doesn't seem like any of my friends understand what I am talking about when I say psychedelics dissolve the invisible barrier between God's consciousness and ours. I find it so ridiculously obvious that this is the correct interpretation of the psychedelic experience yet few people tend to make this interpretation.
-------------------- Turn off your mind, relax and floatdown stream. It is not dying. Lay down all thought, surrender to the void. It is shining. Pink Floyd
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: NlightNd1]
#8044132 - 02/19/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that's a completely subjective interpretation and it's unlikely that it's true, but not impossible.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NlightNd1
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Icelander]
#8044233 - 02/19/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've come to this conclusion while on LSD. I'll try to explain my reasoning. First of all I should mention that I have always been a believer in God and a believer in eternal life. I came to the realization that the only being who can have eternal life is God, because he is the only being who has been alive forever. I believed that the only way I could exist is if my life were eternal. The only way I can make sense of this is that somehow our souls (life) is directly connected to God's. Basically, our life is actually God's life. I came to the conclusion that when we take psychedelics, our perception of being an individual is replaced by interconnectedness with all forms of life. Even if psychedelics do not join our consciousness with God's, I believe that this is the impression we are supposed to have from the experience. Psychedelics give us a way to comprehend a Being who is incomprehensible. Most people cannot understand how God has existed for eternity. We know that this is more than possible. Just look at the laws of energy. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. This means that energy is something that has existed for eternity.
-------------------- Turn off your mind, relax and floatdown stream. It is not dying. Lay down all thought, surrender to the void. It is shining. Pink Floyd
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: NlightNd1]
#8044350 - 02/19/08 07:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that's a completely subjective interpretation and it's unlikely that it's true, but not impossible.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lion
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: NlightNd1]
#8044395 - 02/19/08 07:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I certainly see what you're saying, but if this interpretation of your experience is really so obvious to you, why try to validate it through others? Is it because you do not trust your insight, or you don't trust your friends to interpret their own experiences?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Lion]
#8044412 - 02/19/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing wrong with throwing it out there for discussion but I would say that he might notice that there are literally hundreds of differing interpretations of LSD experiences. I for instance have over 35 years experience with this and never thought I saw or felt the presence of a God.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NlightNd1
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Lion]
#8044441 - 02/19/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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My opinion may be biased because I am a spiritually motivated person. I just want to open my mind up to any one else's opinions to see if they have any interpretation of the psychedelic experience. I don't know why I want to understand the psychedelic experience. It just seems that something so profound must have an equally profound explanation/ purpose. If what they say is true, "there is a reason for everything." I have also read about people having encounters with God on a dose of around 1/2 oz. of mushrooms. It just seems to tie together all the loose ends, for me.
-------------------- Turn off your mind, relax and floatdown stream. It is not dying. Lay down all thought, surrender to the void. It is shining. Pink Floyd
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BrainChemistry
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Lion]
#8044461 - 02/19/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think he's just trying to get a sense of other peoples feelings on the matter. Its always nice when other people believe the same things you do, even if you already believe strongly. But anyway, I do think that psychedelics open the brain to things normally beyond our perception. Many people claim that they see aliens or entities while tripping DMT, why is it that so many see the same thing? Whether or not we are seeing into another dimension, or our brains are just inventing a world for us to experience, I don't know. But I do know that there is still so much about our reality that we are clueless about, and who knows what the human brain is actually capable of?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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Lion
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: NlightNd1]
#8044484 - 02/19/08 07:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would be careful about assigning any concepts to the experience, because its nature is that it defies most all human conception. Loose ends and God are just concepts. Who is the you that feels loose ends need to be tied up? Who is this entity who is separate from God, and what is God?! Exploring these questions is probably more worthwhile than taking your memories of your experiences, or others' descriptions of theirs, and using them to further the conceptualizing and intellectualizing of experience.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Orbus
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Icelander]
#8044551 - 02/19/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Comparing a description of full blown ego loss from psychedelics with a spontaneous mystical experience leaves one with little difference to find.
Here's William James' description of religious mystical experience as it is commonly described
Beginning with the "simplest" sort of mystical experience, James notes the strong sense of significance and knowledge associated with the experience, it's "noetic" quality. It is one of four qualities that James uses to define mystical states of consciousness. "Ineffable" is another characteristic which marks an experience as mystical; the experience defies expression. Due to its subjective nature, the experience is much like state of feeling. James asserts that these two qualities "entitle any state to be called mystical." However, there are other qualities usually associated with the experience. He explains that the experiences are generally transient. Fading quickly, it is hard to recall the quality of the experience in memory; they remain just out of reach. But, some memory content always remains, and this can be used to "modify the inner life of the subject between the time of their recurrence." When having a mystical experience, however, individuals do not seem to actively process the information. Instead, it is a passive experience - James' fourth characteristic mark. Even though many people actively study and/or practice techniques to produce mystical states of consciousness, once occurring the experience seems to happen without their will.
Later, James goes on to suggest that these experiences occur as our "field of consciousness" increases. One can assert these "simple" experiences connote a slight widening of this field, whereas the more profound experiences come when consciousness expands to include items usually filtered, hidden, or just out of reach. Such could include memories and sensations. As awareness increases to include more external and internal information, a sense of self, a boundary between self and environment, expands, and seems to dissipate. The experience is one of unity with information formerly defined as non-self. This expansion of the self, often referred to as loss of self, may not be beneficial for someone who does not have a "strong" sense of self to begin with. To these people, a mystical experience can be frightening and confusing, to say the least. James calls this a "diabolical mysticism;" half of mysticism, he explains, is not religious mysticism, but cases where "mystical ideas" are seen as symptoms of insanity. He refers to these as "lower mysticisms," springing forth from the same psychological mechanisms as the classic, religious sort. However, the messages and emotions are experienced as negative.
Now, see how many similarities can be found in this account of psychedelic ego loss taken at random off Erowid.
Now keep in mind that the Tangerine Dream music is playing loud, and at this point I can't distinguish the music from what's actually happening. This is the true effect of 'seeing sound' and 'hearing color'. Up to this point I am literally (from my understanding) in an other world with new horizons to explore, and no way of turning back. I had no control of what direction to go to with my consciousness. Along with this new awareness, I began to experience powerful feelings of regret, mourning, and despair, because of the realization of my premature death due to occur shortly. I was about to leave all the people and things I loved in my life here on earth, (my immediate family, my desires, passions, ect.) behind, with no way of having the chance to say a 'proper' goodbye. This was very disturbing. What gave the convincing final touches to my 'departure' into the realms of death, was my boston terrier. He was behaving very strangely. He was whining and staring right at me the entire first half of the experience. Which confirmed the eerie feeling that my dog 'knew' I was 'dying'. This in turn formed a strong bond between me and my dog. He cuddled against me (whining)while I 'died'. This was truely the most traumatic point of the experience. I was saying goodbye to the world, and to my memories of the people I loved very dearly. I 'knew' that all the things that were occuring were the last stages of what we call death.
I now began to have trouble breathing and I felt like my human conscious state was diminishing more and more to the point of nothing. I truely felt like my human consciousness was diminishing to an atomic level until it would reach the size of an atom, and then burst into the realm of eternity. Up to this point I began to experience the infinite nature of our universe. Thus, I thought I WAS the infinite, bound (however) to its laws just like humans are bound to the laws of nature. I was one with ALL that exists (air, water, fire, earth, my dog, anything my conscious could think of). I WAS whatever I could possibly think of (in all sense of the word). I was held in the hands of the ultimate controller (God). However he was doing nothing with me. He was just allowing me to float in the infinite nature of the universe, with confusion, a deep feeling of despair, mixed with regret for taking that dose of mushrooms. I thought, 'Oh my God, this is Hell!', 'I made a big mistake!', and I began to weep in the name of God.
Of course this does prove the existence of God, just that these experience are nearly identical.
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------------------------------------------------------ Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: NlightNd1]
#8044632 - 02/19/08 08:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It just seems that something so profound must have an equally profound explanation/ purpose.
Is it really any more profound then any single thing in this amazing experience called life? Like driving to work? Psychedelics function most likely is to put oneself into the experience of the moment and to stop thinking about ones addictions and desires. It's most likely a chemical thing in the brain.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Icelander]
#8045161 - 02/19/08 10:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Nothing wrong with throwing it out there for discussion but I would say that he might notice that there are literally hundreds of differing interpretations of LSD experiences. I for instance have over 35 years experience with this and never thought I saw or felt the presence of a God.
Conversely, I have had over 35 years experience with this and I have always thought I experienced Eternity and/or Infinity. My struggle has been between the vascillating theistic and non-theistic nature of my experiences.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8045281 - 02/19/08 10:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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LSD makes me intellectualize God. The last acid trip I had was fairly heavy, and I spent hours in thought, contemplating the world of meaning and information we live in, all the layers of interpretation we throw onto everything. I felt that we had essentially developed as vehicles for the infinite potentiality of ideas (I guess some might call it Logos), and that through interaction with other humans, interaction with the world around us, and our own inner reflection, a person's life is essentially one long conversation with the infinite possible permutations of thought. These permutations include Jungian archetypes, God, imaginary friends, everything that can exist as an idea. They are all very real and have been since the beginning of time. They are built into the fabric of reality and express themselves in various ways, a recent of explosion of which has been triggered by humans, and their unique talent for transforming ideas into reality through abstract thought, communication, construction, and art.
This all stemmed from that mind-boggling question I've had as long as I can remember: how does my brain produce my thought and my experiences? On a head full of acid, the answer seemed rather clear: that awareness is a fundamental aspect of the universe, and through some obscenely complicated and unimaginable (with our present understanding) process, our brains are sophisticated filters operating on what Aldous Huxley called Mind at Large - all thoughts, all possibilities.
This is, of course, my own interpretation of my trip. Trying to explain it in plain English taxes my linguistic abilities and I doubt I really got it across. There's a lot of it I've left unsaid because I don't want to ramble on in that classical stoned philosopher fashion. But it makes plain sense to me, and in fact I now take it for granted in my daily life. That doesn't mean it's some absolute truth of the universe. It's more of a crystallization of my general intuitions about consciousness and life in this period of time. It is infinitely meaningful to me, and meaningless to everyone else.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (02/20/08 02:01 AM)
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flangenips
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Icelander]
#8045359 - 02/19/08 10:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm with icelander on this one, unfortunately i've only had about 3 years experience though, but been shot into another dimension at lightspeed many times. Alternatively, to much of what i hear from my fellow trippers, i just have a great time and experience what i can only really call a godlessness. I have comfortability in the fact that i feel life is to be enjoyed in an essentially communal utilitarian way.
and as for the visions, i just attribute it to drug induced insanity, brain chemistry etc.
Say imagine my mind as an old school telephone operater box with an operator (with plugs having to be manually switched all over the show), and all the different potential people one call talk to on the board (these are my memories, creativity, ideas, etc..) and then imagine the operater is mentally incapable of doing anything correctly... i'm constantly being reconnected to every person in random order (sometimes in a pattern with certain psychedelics). One minute i'm talking to someone familiar, but suddenly i'm cut off and switched to someone i am not familiar and this goes on and on (especially if my eyes are closed)
But of course, along these lines, i'm an atheist. The trip IS you. the OP says he has always been a believer in god. And its probably healthy, in terms of happiness, to follow ones connection with their beliefs. Nothing wrong with seeking your own truth... and nothing wrong with discussing it with others.
-------------------- All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce
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redgreenvines
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: flangenips]
#8046122 - 02/20/08 04:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i am always dismayed that people have to stick their huge mind expanded experiences under a reductive label.
IMO that tiny label is often like the pastie that a stripper might wear on her breast during moments of "respectibility".
maybe the intent is to cover the nipple. maybe the intent is to have social acceptibility.
I say experience the full breast as what it is, and don't stick something on it so you can change it's essence, or make it more acceptible.
if god is your bag, you are always in it, lsd will just show you more, nakedly, and you will not have words, and that is OK.
the same will be if god is not your thing.
I think it is important to respect what you experience as what it is or what it was, and labelling it incorrectly, or adding reductive descriptions to it diminish both the experience and your fading memory of it is more unsuitable than accepting unknowing.
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_ 🧠 _
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Lakefingers

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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: redgreenvines]
#8046127 - 02/20/08 04:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The pastie seduces: no pastie, no strip. Iconoclasts hate the sign, not because they hated it as an idolatrous middle-man, but because they know no god hides behind it
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backfromthedead
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: redgreenvines]
#8046271 - 02/20/08 07:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's most likely a chemical thing in the brain.
I think we know this now. How can any experience not be a chemical thing in the brain??
God label as pastie... Loved it. Rad post.
Could be useful when lactating. When the time is right look out for the flood. Damn near drowned in the volcano.
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8046477 - 02/20/08 09:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Nothing wrong with throwing it out there for discussion but I would say that he might notice that there are literally hundreds of differing interpretations of LSD experiences. I for instance have over 35 years experience with this and never thought I saw or felt the presence of a God.
Conversely, I have had over 35 years experience with this and I have always thought I experienced Eternity and/or Infinity. My struggle has been between the vascillating theistic and non-theistic nature of my experiences.
Right. This is what I have always postulated about the ability to know ultimate truth. There are too many varied experiences out there to make any final determination about objective truth. Most likely it's just as R.A.W. stated, "what the thinker thinks, the prover proves".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: redgreenvines]
#8046480 - 02/20/08 09:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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IMO that tiny label is often like the pastie that a stripper might wear on her breast during moments of "respectibility".
maybe the intent is to cover the nipple. maybe the intent is to have social acceptibility.
The intent is to excite and titillate. Think on this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Understanding the Psychedelic Infinity [Re: Icelander]
#8046910 - 02/20/08 11:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I need a link!
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