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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


Registered: 10/25/07
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Powder mimosa/water covering jar
#8043539 - 02/19/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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So, I have a mixture of 500ml water(ph ~ 13.4), with 100g powdered mimosa and ~120ml naphtha. Once i started rolling it around the entire jar has become covered in a black coating from water/powder will this settle out and allow the solvent to be separated or will I have to switch to a different container, excited for my first extraction!
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1,611
Loc: Temple
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043591 - 02/19/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The water pH is supposed to be 4 not 13.4.
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043600 - 02/19/08 04:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds like you may have used too much lye, your pH shouldn't need to be any higher than 12.
The black stuff will probably settle out, but as I recall, emulsions get nastier the more basic your solution is. It might be helpful to add some saltwater to help break the emulsion and lower the pH a bit.
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Cannashroom
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8043899 - 02/19/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was using the lazy man's extraction and it called for pH that high along with some others that I looked at. The jar is pretty full so I wouldn't be able to add much water, i could do the salt though. It has only been sitting for 1.5hrs and it has a thin layer of solvent on top, but not to the level where I could separate it. Should i try to bring the ph down/add salt, or just let it keep sitting. Also would adding more solvent be helpful? Or is that counter intuitive to freeze precipitating as less would fall out?
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043921 - 02/19/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Adding more nonpolar solvent is always an option. Yes, less will fall out in the freeze-precip step the more naphtha you use, but you can always evaporate the naphtha down to a smaller volume before precipitating to get around that.
I know that there are teks that call for a pH that high, I just don't understand why. DMT has a pKa of 8.7. That means that >99.9% of your DMT will be in the freebase form at pH 12. I could see going up to pH 12.5 just to play it safe, but it seems like most folks run into difficult emulsions if the solution is any more basic than that.
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12468
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043932 - 02/19/08 06:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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15ml water : 1 g lye : 1 g rootbark
This is the golden ratio. Lazyman's tek ratio results in complete emulsion. Work out the math for your batch and adjust water and lye as needed BEFORE throwing in naphtha if possible!
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043942 - 02/19/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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A higher ph will help seperation, not hurt it so that's not your problem. 13.4 is good. I think the problem here is your solution is to thick to allow the solvent to seperate. Move to a bigger container and add more base water. The combination of too little water and the fact that you didn't filter the powder out makes it too thick to seperate. Another tip, heat helps seperation as well.
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Entropymancer


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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: 12468]
#8043950 - 02/19/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
12468 said: 15ml water : 1 g lye : 1 g rootbark
This is the golden ratio. Lazyman's tek ratio results in complete emulsion. Work out the math for your batch and adjust water and lye as needed BEFORE throwing in naphtha if possible!
That's the ideal golden ratio.
The problem is that in reality, lye is hygroscopic, so you can't trust that one gram of your lye is actually a full gram of NaOH. That's why folks like me insist on actually measuring the pH.
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Cannashroom
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: 12468]
#8043959 - 02/19/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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My mixture is around 13ml water :1g lye: 2.5g bark, so should i add more water with lye to bring it to the right ph/volume, thing is the naphtha is already in it, so it will take a long time to settle out after that. Or should i just leave it and see what happens?
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


Registered: 10/25/07
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8043966 - 02/19/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Also I added 100ml naphtha, how is that volume?
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8044112 - 02/19/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Adding more basified water will probably help it to seperate better. Based on the ratio of what you've got in there, you probably want to add at least 400mL more water (basified to pH~12-13)
Other than that, sounds good, I'd just give it one more stir then see how it seperates.
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Cannashroom
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8044217 - 02/19/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK, I split the initial jar into two after mixing again (I think more naphtha went into the new jar, so there may be much more solvent in one jar than the other, it was 100ml in total). I then added about 750ml basifies water to both(in total not to each) and am now letting them settle again, I think my pH was actually higher than 13.4, but now it should be around that, but it is probably still higher.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8044267 - 02/19/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds good man, best of luck with your product.
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Cannashroom
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8044447 - 02/19/08 07:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Woot, there is a nice layer of solvent on top of both jars now. I'm going to take it off with an eyedropper soon and then try a freeze precipitation. Man I love how everything always seems to work out with psychedelics, at first we thought the freezer wasn't going to be cold enough for a precip, but low and behold its going down to -18C tonight, and the wind hows outside my window where I'm going to fix the jar, I just hope my residence is insulated well enough so that the heat of the building wont cause it to not get cold enough.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8044762 - 02/19/08 08:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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So i have a bottle with some separated solvent in it but it seems to have a bit of water at the bottom, how could i remove this because it seems like it will be a problem in the freeze precipitation, or could the ice be removed from spice?
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8044981 - 02/19/08 09:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, it's apt to be a problem if you leave it in there.
First thing to do probably is pour off all of the naphtha that you can get off the water, so you're left with just a small volume each of naphtha and water in the jar.
Now you can tip the jar at a 45 degree angle so the water pools in the lowest corner. Use your eyedropper or whatever to suck it all up. Or alternately, you could use your eyedropper to pipette off all the nonpolar stuff, being careful not to snag any of the water.
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8045035 - 02/19/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, so i poured it into a cup and took the solvent back in but the bottle still had a bit of water in it, which I didn't think we would be able to remove so i put it outside only 20 mins ago, taped to my window, but it already has crystals forming all throughout the solution, it went from slight yellow transparent to very translucent, I cant wait! How long does the precip usually take because i already have a lot of crystals forming.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8045086 - 02/19/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow, the bottom of the jar is now covered in white crystals! I can still see the tiny bead of water in the corner which i think will turn to ice, but i think i will be able to take it out. I seem to have a lot of crystals coming out, much more than I expected, so excited!
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8045109 - 02/19/08 09:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Glad to hear the good news. 
IME crystals begin to fall out pretty quickly, though it takes a while for everything to precipitate that's going to. I'd just leave it til morning, then check out your DMT snowglobe!
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
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Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8046549 - 02/20/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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This is such a fun experience. It reminds me of being in school, doing chemistry experiments. Like making rock candy with your science class or something.
It's a lot of fun.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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Cannashroom
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Yeah, my friend and I are having so much fun just doing the extraction, we both take chem but hes in organic chem which i will take next year. We already got around .1grams of crystal but we messed up and let a lot redissolve into solution, so were adding that solvent to the stuff from the second pull and going for a second freeze precipitation tonight, so excited to try out my first hit of DMT tonight, We got off white crystals, look amazing!
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8047753 - 02/20/08 03:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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More will come out of solution the less naphtha there is. If you can, put it in front of a fan (or use some other safe method to reduce the volume) for a while today before letting it freeze-precip tonight.
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8048470 - 02/20/08 06:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I already took the naphtha from the second pull and mixed it with the first, let it evaporate to just above half and then I put it outside. Crystals have been growing all day but in the last hour seemed to have stopped/slowed their growth(-13C outside by weather report). I think it has reached equilibrium. My friends and I are eager to try it out and we don't have enough from the first pull so we are going to take the crystals out soon, then the solution back outside(maybe evaporate some). It is supposed to go down to -18 at 5am so more will come out then.
I estimate combined these two pulls will total in .2-.4 grams of DMT so I should be able to get more of it from the mimosa with another pull since it was 90gams of powder to start. I have a question, could too high of a pH, 14 or above cause the DMT to be destroyed?
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1,611
Loc: Temple
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8049338 - 02/20/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I use 100 grams of bark and I get 1 to 2 grams of crystal. No Lie
--------------------
 You will be missed
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Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: TheShroomJew23]
#8049382 - 02/20/08 09:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That means your rootbark gets up to more than three times as much DMT as is usually listed for the plant. (0.6% is the standard figure as I recall, though I know people's actual yields can tend to indicate closer to the 1% DMT mark)
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints


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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Entropymancer]
#8049511 - 02/20/08 09:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, I am unsatisfied with my yield as of right now. I used around 90grams of bark and have gotten around 270mg +/- 50mg Id say (My scale in neither accurate nor precise )so far. But I still have the solution outside again, and it has become cloudy once more, so it should precipitate out some more crystals. Furthermore, I added more solvent to the jars and am going for a third pull.
This was my first extraction and I made mistakes, I'm getting pH papers for my next one and I hope to use my experience this time to help me get a better yield next time, but I'm excited to embark on my first spice journey very soon.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1,611
Loc: Temple
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: Cannashroom]
#8049779 - 02/20/08 10:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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get a digital pH tester that is +/- 0.1 accurate. I got mine for like 30.
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Powder mimosa/water covering jar [Re: TheShroomJew23]
#8051066 - 02/21/08 09:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I will agree with you, shroomjew.
I was very confused about the kinds of yields I was geting compared to the listed potency of the plant.
Seriously, almost reliably two grams from a hundred grams plant matter.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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