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Offlinelonestar2004
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Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window'
    #8043197 - 02/19/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window'


Our friend Roger Simon has a juicy little column in this morning's Politico where he reports on the Clinton campaign's push not just for superdelegates but regular, pledged delegates.

Whether or not they know it, those delegates purportedly elected to represent the will of the voters of their home states and districts can actually vote any way they want. And according to Simon, "Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination.

“I swear it is not happening now, but as we get closer to the convention, if it is a stalemate, everybody will be going after everybody’s delegates,” a senior Clinton official told Simon yesterday. “All the rules will be going out the window.”



The Obama campaign responded harshly this morning.

“As it becomes increasingly clear that Senator Clinton may not be able to secure the nomination by winning the support of actual voters, the Clinton campaign has once again floated a strategy that would essentially say that the preference of Democratic voters is a mere obstacle to their win-at-all-costs strategy," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe. "First, they said they’ll try to seat the non-existent delegates in Florida and Michigan, something that neutral party leaders have roundly criticized. Then, they suggested that superdelegates should consider subverting the will of the voters and the pledged delegates, which has also been strongly objected to.

“Their new strategy will be to convince delegates that were pledged by actual Democratic voters to switch sides. In their own words, ‘all the rules will be going out the window.’ Voters are already rejecting the Clinton campaign’s say-or-do-anything-to-win tactics, and this is the latest example that it’s time to turn the page on this type of politics that could severely harm our party’s chances to win the general election."

This thing reminds me more and more of the Florida recount. And just as with that contest, the point is not to "count every vote" -- but to win.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/clinton-camp-al.html


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8043296 - 02/19/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Greg Palast is getting a boner!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: afoaf]
    #8043342 - 02/19/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

right :grin: (i had to look up who he was)

http://www.gregpalast.com/


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8043393 - 02/19/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was of the opinion that all the rules were burned at the stake long ago.

The conduct in which these scumbags try to get elected is ungentlemanly and frivolous (just the way the media likes it). No talk about issues and their possible implications, just the candidates, the personalities.


Face it, your democratic system has become reality TV. Next you know, you'll be text messaging your vote for POTUS.

ps: Reality TV is an oxymoron in the extreme.


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Edited by Minstrel (02/19/08 03:51 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: Minstrel]
    #8043454 - 02/19/08 04:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

How the fuck do you not hear about the issues?

Do you honestly think there is no discussion of these things?

Where did you hear that? Prisonplanet?


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8043613 - 02/19/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
How the fuck do you not hear about the issues?

Do you honestly think there is no discussion of these things?

Where did you hear that? Prisonplanet?




You are gonna tell me that CNN spends more time talking about platforms than they do squabbling over whos more liberal than who?


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Edited by Minstrel (02/19/08 04:53 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: Minstrel]
    #8043996 - 02/19/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I knew u could bribe the super delegates. but the pledged delegates??

The pledged delegates elected to represent the will of the voters of their home states and districts can vote anyway they want???? WTF


why do the democrats ever bother to let the people vote?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8044134 - 02/19/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

why do the democrats ever bother to let the people vote?




To keep us thinking and believing we have a choice and a government of the people by the people for the people.

Tell me how Barrack got zero votes in 16 precincts in NY, and why RP was crossed off of the ballot in some NY precincts where they also told RP voters that he was crossed off because he dropped out. He is still in the race.

Our elections system is a disgraceful sham. The rules were thrown out the window long ago, not sure if they were ever even truly honored in this country. I was watching on the History channel how Adams beat Jackson with some shady back room deal.:sad:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8044218 - 02/19/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I knew u could bribe the super delegates. but the pledged delegates??

The pledged delegates elected to represent the will of the voters of their home states and districts can vote anyway they want???? WTF


why do the democrats ever bother to let the people vote?




I don't believe this point is different between the parties. The whole primary process is a facade (especially so on the democratic side). The delegates are NOT state selected or employed, have no duty to anyone but the party, and thus can't be forced to do jack shit.

In Ohio, their appears to be no requirment that delgates selected by the candidate and approved by the party, vote any particular way.
See: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3513.121

The only requirement as to voting a particular way is as follows:

" ORC 3513.121(C)(2) A statement in writing signed by the candidate in which he states his first and second choices for nomination as the candidate of his party for the presidency of the United States."

Notice they must state their current choice, but must not commit or face any sanction for lying or changing their mind, or not voting w/ the will of the people.

Notice that all the descriptions in the media of how the delegate awarding process works talks about what the party requires, not what is legally required. Feel free to find me something in the law that ties teh delegates' hands or provides for recourse if they act in bad faith

Again, the primaries are bullshit. The parties simply go along w/ the notion of a democracy untill they or the candidate doesn't like it... then the true nature or the system (that of a republic) shows itself.


Guess we're seeing that right now w/ the democrats


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: johnm214]
    #8044260 - 02/19/08 07:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

wow i did not know that! this is bullshit!

Honestly this is the first year that i have paid so much attention to just the Primaries.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8044275 - 02/19/08 07:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the ohio revised code is pretty well organized in this section... I really don't think the delegates have to do much.

All the rules are from the party side, and they can simply change them at will.

All these indirect elections need to be abolished (primaries, electoral college)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Clinton Camp: 'All The Rules Will Be Going Out The Window' [Re: johnm214]
    #8046335 - 02/20/08 08:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

She could try it but it isn't going to happen. The response of Obama's campaign was pretty damn stiff. :thumbup: Its nothing but another act of desperation, but she's clawing at the air. What do they call it, a death stroke? I don't know, but I saw a muskrat swim in circles once after it got shot... :smirk:

I actually do remember learning in school that these delegates aren't officially committed, but its pretty clear that they will vote for the candidate. In fact, although I'm not certain, but what occurs is each candidate has a list of delegates that have registered, and the delegates are selected from that. I think it might just depend on which state it is in though, but I'm pretty certain that it isn't as though its just some random person that can easily be influenced.

All that matters is that Obama keeps winning and adding to his number of pledged delegates. I believe Obama took Wisconsin with damn near a 20% margin. If she decides to keep campaigning if she loses Texas and Ohio (if she does, she'll be so stressed and insane from starving for power that every word she will say will lose her votes :lol:), it will be for a grand old Waterloo. The superdelegates will sway to him if she gets defeated in these states, and if she doesn't take 58% of the last votes in this country, she won't officially have enough pledged delegates to even win, trying to subvert their vote would take a lot of difficult effort that would not yield very many delegates, and of course the superdelegates would have already said Obama's the man, because they won't let her destroy their party by continuing this pathetic display.

Also, I don't understand all of the moaning about how unfair the prospect of this could be, because primaries and caucuses are simply contests that the parties put forth to help them decide who their candidate should be. People might be conditioned to the two party system but it is still no one's fault but the people, who are responsible for their government, the people they put forth to represent them, and the ways in which those representatives congregrate amongst themselves.

If the Democratic party wants to say fuck you millions of voters, we still want to put forth this candidate you didn't like to run for President, then they can do it. Common sense says to respect the choice of the people who will be voting in the national election, but let's not piss and moan about a fucked up system and conspiracy when there is none (to no one in particular, just the general sentiment of conspiracy and "it doesn't matter" and etc.). :wink:


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I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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