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Invisiblezorbman
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: Redstorm]
    #8043866 - 02/19/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Also, I've haven't seen a flip-flopper like Fireworks_God in quite some time. How do you go from small-government, get rid of the IRS Ron Paul to free health care for everyone Obama? It blows my mind.




Yeah, what's up with that FG?

First you threw poor Dennis Kucinich under the bus, then you hopped on the Ron Paul bandwagon, and now you are on the Barrack Obama train.

That's a lot of traveling.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8046123 - 02/20/08 04:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
The ethics reforms are nice FG. Now, next to no one can choose to bother going to the website to see Exactly how their tax dollars are being blown. Less the 12% even bothered to research the candidate they voted for on-line.

How many of us already know what is being blown on the Iraq war, want the spending cut off and troops brought home, and have no ability to stop it. What good is knowing exact figures? What does it really change?

Why do I need a new costly government town hall web-site to pitch a beef to the government for? It sound's nice, yet, I can write my state Congressional Reps and Senators anytime directly about my beefs. What exactly has changed?

This is all hollow feel good crap at the end of the day FG.




Nonsense. An organized, easily accessible collection on the net which includes, from lobbying reports, ethics records, campaign finance filings, and corporate tax-breaks, to reports on lobbying by federal contracters, which contracts they receive, and how well they perform sounds like a great step towards making oversight of government by the people expedited. He's proposing to require having his Cabinet officials hold national, broadband townhall meetings, where they will discuss issues with their agencies, and also to have more of the signfigant business of executive branch regulatory agencies open to the public. He has an act that seeks to make available the name of a legislator proposing an earmark, as well as a written explanation for the earmark by them, 72 hours before it can be approved by the full Senate. He's seeking to get rid of no-bid contracts above $25,000....

I think its intriguing that you would propose that measures taken to make oversight of government by the people and to find ways for them to become more involved, especially through the power of the Internet, "feel good crap" simply because a majority of Americans do not inform themselves or participate.

A transparent, open government is to be strived for, and this proposition that Obama puts forth is a great step towards the ideal.



Quote:


What exactly are those stances?




I'm not going to propose these stances for discussion in this thread to prevent this from ballooning out of proportion, but they are readily accessible and I'll definitely look towards making a new thread to discuss rural development because it is of particular interest to me.

Quote:


The tax cuts for teachers are great for teachers. They make up a little over 1% of the U.S. population. How does it benefit you or I?




Do you really not know how measures to create incentive for teachers would benefit the other 99% of the population? The last I was aware, most everyone receives public schooling. I can't immediately find the source regarding a tax cut for teachers, but there is a comprehensive plan for recruiting, preparing, retaining, and rewarding teachers, from scholarships to expanding mentoring programs and so on.

I think it is pretty evident that the educational system is in a pretty poor state, and I think it is the one thing that can improve all things. More wise investment makes sense to me. He's proposing a move towards focusing more on education, politically and as a country, and its a good direction to move in.   

Quote:


You do realize that the cutting of subsidies to gas and oil companies will increase the cost of gas and thereby other goods.

Though I am for this because I want to see alternatives be able to compete better, they will be competing at the higher price margins for possibly decades until new alternative can be made cheaper by mass production.

Thats a catch 22 benefit. We will all deal with short term loss at paying higher prices for a distant future gain in cleaner air and energy Independence.




Well, its really a question of how the subsides are cut, as well as how the growth of an alternative energy market is supported. I'm sure if you cut all of it immediately, such would be the case. Its hard to say specifically what is being proposed regarding this, or his energy policy in general, due to the nature of reality (candidates don't typically release 1000 page plans like they produce when they are actually in office :smirk:), but his stances do shape a direction and an outline of the means that will be used to take the country in that direction, and it seems like a great direction to go in - energy independence and removing obstructions that prevent an alternative energy market from springing forth.

Quote:


And that comment applies if I bother to give his campaign RHETORIC any credibility. As far as walking his talk, he voted to pass billions in Bush giveaways to the oil companies. Hillary didn't. Not that I am for her either. :puke:




If you are referring to his voting for the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (any information quoted by me is from this link), I see no reason to believe it is any sign of not standing for his expressed views on the matter. The Act was full of incentives for alternative energy expansion, from loan guarantees for innovative technology that avoid the release of greenhouse gases, tripling the amount of biofuel to be mixed in with gasoline, a grant program for biomass, etc. etc. etc. Here's a list of the tax cuts by area:

Quote:


$4.3 billion for nuclear power
$2.8 billion for fossil fuel production
$2.7 billion to extend the renewable electricity production credit
$1.6 billion in tax incentives for investments in clean coal facilities
$1.3 billion for conservation and energy efficiency
$1.3 billion for alternative motor vehicles and fuels (ethanol, methane, liquified natural gas, propane)




His vote clearly isn't as antithetical to his views as you would make it seem. Clearly some of the energy bill gave incentives and subsidies to oil corporations, maybe 1/3 of the money went to fossil fuel production, but a vote agansit the bill is a vote agansit the progress that is made in all of the other important areas, and, at the very most, voting on the bill can be seen as a compromise in order to get results on creating change for the future. At first you made it seem that he was acting in the interest of the oil industry, just as Bush and Cheney have, but since the bill gives more subsidies and tax cuts to alternative energy, I think this perspective is not credible.

Quote:


You heard me. The Obama plan would mandate health care coverage for children with a specific enforcement mechanism. He won't expansiate on what that is though on his site. From other reading, it was compared to Hillary's forced check deductions for adults too. What good is that if the forced payments run these families out of the homes or cut into their food budget?




Yes, I heard you, but when I heard you, I did not hear any reference to any sort of source, which is why I asked. 

Quote:


Great. Then you will have no trouble finding out for me, since you can think and I can't, how Obamas mandate for children's health care coverage will be paid for and enforced. :grin:




Quote:


Subsidies: Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.




I think that he is proposing that to help in any situation in which they couldn't afford to cover the mandated child coverage. Perhaps when I said "everything" it was not intended to mean that every singluar facet of complex plans has been put forward by any candidate, but I can understand how you would have assumed I meant as much. Obama's policies seem much more sensible and pragmatic, the only real question, as you put forth, is regarding the mandate for child coverage. I personally don't see having insurance as much of an issue, perhaps reforms to bring down health care costs themselves more important, but most Americans are concerned about health insurance and want solutions, so its only natural that he would seek to represent the people.

Also, I don't understand your original assertion that he would force people to buy insurance from his "buddies". What makes you think that either Hillary or Obama, in proposing health insurance reform, are working in the interest of health insurance providers? The fact is that, in order to push the changes they are seeking, they will face opposition from lobbyists for these industries. They might get some more customers but the whole game changes. Here's an article regarding the mandate vs. incentive debate resultant from their two plans.

Mandate Vs. Incentive

In it, Obama seems to be asking the same question you are about mandates, which, coupled with the above idea I took from his Blueprint for Change in response to your question of how he would pay for the mandate, which would help anyone who couldn't afford to have coverage, seems to suggest that he is not proposing that he would garnish wages of those that can't afford to cover their children. Here is what he said:

Quote:


“You can mandate it, but there’s still going to be people who can’t afford it. And if they cannot afford it, then the question is: What are you going to do about it? Are you going to fine them? Are you going to garnish their wages?” he said during the same debate.





Quote:


Me either as long as my daughter or her children or their children have an intergalactic space ship, and the freedom to take it to another habitable world, if they don't like the way this planet is being governed.




First off, selectively quoting from a sentence when you exclude a prepositional phrase is misleading, as you have removed the short phrase from the proper context in which it was placed. The point, of course, is that the existence of a world government, in and of itself, is neutral, in that it is not automatically inherent in its existence that it will be detrimental to the people of this planet or that it will infringe upon the rights of the people. With this country, if one doesn't like the way in which the government is run, one seeks to change it, although the option is there to leave to another country, and, as you pointed out, it is not as though one can leave this planet for another (yet).

I think the nature of reality is that, if there is one human being, there will be more human beings, and, if there is more, there will be some system of management of the course human beings as a whole take. I think its pretty evident that, at some point in time, humans won't have anywhere to run from the problems that arise from the fact that there are other humans and a subsequent system, and that it will be necessary to work together to figure out a beneficial way for all to live.

Quote:


I am going to call BULL SHIT on your take of this as well. You have a lot of nerve or at least a bad memory, calling me paranoid and pretending your okay with it with a One world government.




First off, I didn't call you paranoid; I clearly stated that what you said sounded paranoid. There is a distinction between ideas presented for discussion and the personal nature of those presenting them. Secondly, its pretty bad form to produce an unrelated, personal discussion from a different website to engage in personalisms in a political discussion. :thumbdown:

Yet, thirdly, the context in which you placed my post at the RonPaulForums is so fucking wrong that I'll forgive all of that and respond anyways. :smirk:


Quote:


fireworks_god said:

I'm asking for advice on something happening in my life, and I'm asking because I need to plan ahead for this looming recession fear nonsense. To make a long story short, I am moving soon to Romania to live with a friend I'm in love with, and I was originally planning on wrapping up the last things I need to wrap up and flying out towards the end of March, beginning of April.

I'm hearing talk of what might happen tomorrow, and it is sounding serious. I wonder how much time I can afford to wait in this country before it becomes too late to get the hell out of here? 

I'm wondering because I get paid on Thursday and I have a significant amount of money (for me, six hundred bucks ) that I'm about to put down on my truck, but if it is necessary, I will say fuck the truck (it is almost paid off, and it sits in their lot now because the transmission went out and the city towed it when it snowed and now they have it there - the plan was to pay to get it fixed, give it to my ex-girlfriend, and she would pay me back the money by the time I was to leave).

I don't know if I have months, and now it sounds like I don't have days. I lost my passport and am waiting for my mom to get me a new copy of my birth certificate (lost that too ). I need to know if I should pay more to get it to me in, say, two days, instead of four weeks. I also need to know if I should pull all of my money in from further payments on anything and secure myself a plane ticket for sometime next week.

I prefer to wait to leave when I had originally intended, towards the end of March, so I could save up enough money to hold onto for awhile there, so I could take the time to finish everything unresolved here. The fear about the economy, though, is now making me wonder if I should fear for the worst as well, and simply bail A.S.A.P.




Quote:


I'm a none thinking person as you called me so of course you didn't expect me to go there. :smirk:




No, as I referred to, I wouldn't think someone would go there because it is pretty childish, and the fact that the point you were trying to make by referencing it in this childish manner was wrong makes it sad to the point that it is amusing. :smirk:

At the time, there was a lot of discussion of where the dollar was headed and where the stock market was headed and I was at a point where I was planning an international trip as well as finances relating to it. As I have never consciously lived through financial instability as was occuring, I had no frame of reference as to how quickly things could slide down the tubes. Therefore, I posted a question to people who are more informed than I am regarding economic matters if I was safe in waiting and putting my money into other things that did not directly secure for me a plane ticket. As my moving was very important to me, it was my responsibility to consider all possibilities and account for them.

Hello, not knowing something and asking for more information because you need to plan a course of action is not being paranoid. It is being responsible. It is the financial equivalent of checking the weather report to see if it will rain tomorrow, so you can plan a family outing accordingly. I really don't see any reason you would mention this but to make some attempt to pull one over on me, but it clearly failed.


Quote:


I think I proved I do smart ass.




Yes, I was responding to the typical attacks on Obama for not having any substance ideaologically, and you are the first person to reply back with some substance, so, even though there was long odds agansit it, I shouldn't have made an assumption. :wink:

Quote:


Obama intentionally became a member of TWO groups whose soul goals are working towards a globalist Agenda. He also intentionally chose a Foreign Policy adviser who shares in that goal.




Yes, and he's also proposed that, in foreign policy, he would talk with all nations, friends and enemies. How do you know that he didn't join up so he could better know what he was up agansit? :lol: Point is, the simple fact that he is associated with these groups doesn't equate into anything regarding his policy or how he would act as President. The fact that almost every politican joins a lot of groups and committees like these could suggest its simply a political maneuver. Maybe he's working for them as a puppet strategically placed to destroy America from within and let the Chinese come in and steal our eyeballs. :naughty:

Quote:


What more proof do you need to acknowledge that Obama is working towards the same globalist agenda?




Something more than the simple fact that he politically affiliated himself with some group that has its own take on everything. Regardless, even if it was true and its this huge operation, nearly every single politician belongs to it, and, since Ron Paul isn't going to be President, I'm at least going to take that possibility out of the equation long enough to consider the stance these politicans put forth on issues and everything else pertinent and vote for the one that seems more inclined to take the country into a better direction, and Obama actually stands for a lot of the same ideas that brought me to support Ron Paul.

Quote:


Don't even bother trying to debate that a One World Government is a good thing. You were ready to flee yours when it was looking scary. What are people going to do when there is no where to flee to if it gets scary looking?




:rofl2:

See, this is probably why you shouldn't have even opened up that can of childish worms. My plans to move to another country were in place long before I made that post, which was simply made to solicit economic advise so that I could be better informed in making a decision regarding expediting my plans. My plans have nothing to do with the nature of this country, and entirely to do with personal reasons, and if I was fleeing America because of bad government, I certainly wouldn't move to a country that is a member of the European Union. Get a grip. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: zorbman]
    #8046457 - 02/20/08 09:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Also, I've haven't seen a flip-flopper like Fireworks_God in quite some time. How do you go from small-government, get rid of the IRS Ron Paul to free health care for everyone Obama? It blows my mind.




Yeah, what's up with that FG?

First you threw poor Dennis Kucinich under the bus, then you hopped on the Ron Paul bandwagon, and now you are on the Barrack Obama train.

That's a lot of traveling.




It would have been funnier if you had said the Ron Paul blimp. :tongue:

In all honesty, I haven't flip-flopped ideaologically, and I support Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, and Barack Obama.

I've been generally interested in politics, but its nothing I've ever actively followed until this election, mostly due to my young age. :wink: Dennis Kucinich is what drew me in. :smile: I think I watched a video or two of his in this forum, and the idea of a Presidental candidate saying what he was saying was like :shocked: :yesnod: I don't think I ever really sought out too much more on him, I don't think the campaigns were really even picking up their momentum then, but he is an inspiration, and I love what he stands for and the fact that he brought me into all of this.

I learned about Ron Paul the same way a little bit later, and thought it was cool that there was a similar candidate on the other side, but didn't really pay attention or learn about who he was until some time before the November 5th moneybomb, whose success I was skeptical of before it happened. :lol: The more I learned about Ron Paul, the more I loved him, and his ideas resonated perfectly with me. It is through Ron Paul that I really developed a political perspective and real stances on issues. Becoming involved with and following Ron Paul's campaign has been nothing but a catalyst for my own growth and development. I regard Ron Paul as one of the greatest Americans ever, and the ideals he has selflessly stood for and the movement that has built up underneath him I regard very solemnly.

My support for Obama is far less ideaological and much more practical. A friend from work who I've discussed politics a lot with, usually centered around Ron Paul, mentioned that I should check him out, and after Super Tuesday, when it became bitterly clear that, despite all of his unprecedented success and the power of his message, Ron Paul simply had no chance of winning this nomination (media slant partly but owing more to the incompetance of his official campaign and the natural limitations of the grass-roots and the simple fact that the country, for whatever reason, simply wasn't ready for that kind of change), I might as well take a look to what was left. I already knew enough about Hillary to not even consider the bitch, and was quite aware that McCain is not any kind of option from what I learned from following Ron Paul's campaign, so I decided to find out what was up with Obama.
:sherlock:

I checked out his Blueprint for Change and a lot of the ideas he put forth made sense. I concluded that, if I can't have someone who will drastically reduce and restrain the federal government to keep it from fucking everything up, I might as well support someone who will use it more effectively to lead the country forward. Its not much more than the lesser evil bit, and I'm still researching stuff like his voting record, but for the most part he's looking like the best course for America that actually has potential to manifest this time around, and I'm not so pointlessly idealistic to write-in Ron Paul's name. :lol:

So, there you have it, no jumping on the bandwagon, simply a path of entering into politics and learning and expanding and facing reality. What a journey. :mushroom2: :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
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Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8046517 - 02/20/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

In all honesty, I haven't flip-flopped ideaologically, and I support Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, and Barack Obama.




I know, bro. Was just having some fun with ya. :tongue:

I think a lot of people are having to make the same sort of decisions as their favorite candidate gets bumped off. I am coming around to Obama myself for some of the reasons you cited. But I still have questions about him and I would prefer it he were more centrist. Jiggy has probably done more than anyone here to steer people in the direction of asking hard questions rather than focusing on fluff (although she ventured there briefly as well).


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: zorbman]
    #8046653 - 02/20/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, you're not the one who mentioned the term, but I was just replying more generally because it does look like quite the leap in some respects. :lol:

Honestly though, Obama's (at least talking :smirk:) about a lot of the same things Ron Paul is, your signature is a great example. Jiggy's campaign agansit accepting him at face-value is valuable, even as I personally have followed the same approach as I had with Ron Paul (I have the feeling her conceptions regarding my regard for Obama are flat wrong), but a lot of the views she has put forth agansit him aren't based in much substance.

Case in point, his vote for the energy bill of 2005, and I'll begin working to analyze more of his votes. As you've already put forth in another recent thread, context is important, because its altogether too easy to make people look like hypocrites by reducing a complex subject down to "he voted for the Bush/Cheney subsidize the oil companies" bill. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8046672 - 02/20/08 10:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:


Honestly though, Obama's (at least talking :smirk:) about a lot of the same things Ron Paul is,






is that a joke?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8046689 - 02/20/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, it isn't, their only divergence is government's role in seeking out change. Their stance on Iraq, and foreign policy in general are pretty much the same. Then you can take a look on their stances on government secrecy, some aspects of government spending, governemnt collusion with corporations, trade agreements, Washington...

I didn't say they were spitting images of each other; I said they were both talking about a lot of the same things.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8046690 - 02/20/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with her. I have never been proud of my country in my adult life. Wars, prison, the Patriot Act... How can one be proud of these things our country has done, and the sheepish way the American people have supported atrocities? I'm proud of the ideals America espouses but I don't think the vast majority of Americans live up to the promises they've made.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8046710 - 02/20/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

foreign policy....

They probably both hate the evil Jews.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: kriminalelement]
    #8046725 - 02/20/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I have spent many years overseas and every time i come back to American i kiss the ground!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8046908 - 02/20/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Then what is the greater context which Barrack voted along with Bush to give Oil companies billions in subsidies?

There is a lot of time between now and Nov.

What are you going to say when you run around telling people that Obama is against oil/gas subsidies and they bring up his vote for them?

What are you going to say when you run around telling people that Obamas health care plan has no mandates enforcing people to purchase it and they bring up his enforced mandate for children posted right on his own web-site?

What are you going to say when you run around telling people that he is against Nafta, when they bring up that he voted in suport of extending the super highway into South America?

You still have these issues to clear up unless it's okay with you that he doesn't walk his talk.

For future reference, using his ethics talk about transparency and a discussion web-site is weak sauce for convincing people that we will bring positive change to ending corruption in Washington.

Like I said, we already know where a lot of our money goes and knowing it, does nothing to help us change it. Further, how many Americans are going to bother checking in with that web-site? Those who want to know where our money is going can already find that info all over the net. It's nothing new he is bringing to the table. Same goes with my ability to stay on top of bills coming up for a vote and my ability to write or call my state senators and congressmen if I have a beef with them. Who needs a new government run web-site to be able to do this?

It's feel good fluff.

Sure RP talks about transparency as well and he is talking about really bringing us something we have ZERO access to like TELEVISED-Federal Reserve Board discussions, the people who help create the bubbles that threw a lot of hard working American families, who trust the feds, out into the streets.

He wants the the plunge protection group exposed, the group that supports falling markets from behind the scenes, with tax payer money, making it look like the markets are more sound to the novice, then they actually are, causing the average Joe to make poor investment choices.


Can I at least ask this of you. Please stop trying to say that Paul and Obama are a lot alike. They are nothing alike, even if Obama rips off Paul's material in speech, he has nothing to back it up with like Paul does, and it's an insult to the integrity of which Paul has held office with.

Don't clarify those other issues for me either. Do it so you can back your talk when someone else calls you on it, and so you can be more clear about the level of self delusion you are living in regarding the Obama hype sweeping the nation.

I know a lot of us were enjoying the excitement of some real hope with Paul's campaign before the primaries. It's been a huge let down and I know a lot of Paul supporters jumped to the Obama ship to get that feeling of excitement and hope back. It's hollow with Obama though. And you'll realize that sooner or later.

What you call pointless idealism (writing pauls name in)I call the least I can do for a man who took a pay cut and put himself out there to take a heap of ridicule and scorn for over the last twenty years to work for my insured freedoms under the U.S. Constitution.

I've never given a damn about the popularity contests or being associated with whats popular or an "electable winner" if it doesn't jibe with me, hence my registration with the Green party since I have been an active voter, until Paul came along. What you would also call, pointless idealism votes for them, I call having the sense to know that a non interventionist foreign policy deserves my support for as long as the concept is still alive and kicking.

Supporting a CFR, Tri Lat globalist member is out of the question for me. I have zero respect for anyone who works with people who see me as nothing more then cattle to be bought and sold, something to be slowly poisoned into a stupor and then brainwashed, and think that they know what is better for me then I do.

:nonono: :thumbdown:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Posts: 8,978
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8047273 - 02/20/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjljYjA3YTYzMjU2ZjA5Yzg1MmM2YjIzZjEyN2ZjZjk=


AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT FINDS THE OBAMAS TO BE CREEPY!


"You have to stay at the seat at the table of democracy with a man like Barack Obama not just on Tuesday but in a year from now, in four years from now, in eights years from now, you will have to be engaged."


but i'm an atheist....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8047295 - 02/20/08 01:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I find it funny that the Mccain camp is trying to say that Cindy Mccain is the one who thought up the idea to go after Michelle Obama about this comment.

I have trouble believing that dolled-up nut-case has the mental faculties to think up anything. Her mental imbalance is well known and her as first lad would make Betty Ford look like Jackie Kennedy.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8047302 - 02/20/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:



AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT FINDS THE OBAMAS TO BE CREEPY!



NO
Quote:





but i'm an atheist....



Me too.


--------------------


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8047307 - 02/20/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

her as first lad




If we ever had a gay President would his boyfriend be designated "first lad"?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8047310 - 02/20/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I find it funny that the Mccain camp is trying to say that Cindy Mccain is the one who thought up the idea to go after Michelle Obama about this comment.




Link?
Quote:



I have trouble believing that dolled-up nut-case has the mental faculties to think up anything. Her mental imbalance is well known and her as first lad would make Betty Ford look like Jackie Kennedy.




Link?


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8047320 - 02/20/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



when i first saw her on stage with McCain her eyes gave me the Creeps.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8047324 - 02/20/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

She wants to eat your soul. And you want her to.


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8047364 - 02/20/08 01:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I do love older women:grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Michelle Obama: ‘For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country’ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8047375 - 02/20/08 01:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You know the comments I refer to. One of Mccain's campaign staffers was on Meet the Press the other night and said it was a completely off-the-cuff and unplanned remark.

And is not common knowledge that she admittedly stole from her own non-profit organization to feed her prescription drug habit? Don't tell me you didn't know this. You're well informed. And didn't she also fly off the handle in 2000 and claim that GWB was spreading rumors that she had an illegitimate black baby?

The bitch is crazy as shit-house rat.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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